Ottoman Research

[Inanch-Bilge]

Damn this is going to be really hard compared to other factions hope docm can pull this out.


I think the most important problem with Ottoman military was command, command was sh.t, some of the commanders were merely in position thanks to connections, while some were at least a little experienced thanks to wars they partipicated but still backward, if I remember correctly we see that in Egypt, local Mamluk commanders were just keep attacking and attacking, while a real commander from the north realized that he should take defensive position.

Otherwise despite being backward, Ottoman military with high numbers and good cavalry could still manage with good command.

 

[The Bowman]

Actually, the Ottomans were vey important dirung the 1800's. Don't forget the Russian-Turkish wars, which involved the interests of Austria-Hungary and the Great Britain too. At the time, the Ottoman Empire was considered the "ill man of Europe" - a power which was about to crumble. In such a scenario, the Russian Empire would have achieved its interests by conquering the Balkans and Constantinople (Istanbul). This wasn't to Great Britains' and Austria-Hungarys' interests, so they occasionally supported the Ottomans in order to keep the Russians away.

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

Matmo, may be you should make the thread name Ottoman Empire Research, we can post whatever we have.

 

[Count Roland]

We Serbs were duking it out with the Ottomans while you guys were fighting the Napoleonic War

You guys actually gave them quite a hard time, especially later.

 

[matmohair1]

Matmo, may be you should make the thread name Ottoman Empire Research, we can post whatever we have.

fair enough, here we go...

http://www.pinterest.com/nathanwoolford/napoleonic-ottoman-army/

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.418943991471261.99172.253530681345927&type=3

http://home.earthlink.net/~al-qurtubiyya/19/kultur-19.html

http://onokart.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/amedeo-preziosi/

Spoiler

 

[DarkOmega]

Rather excited to see them added just so I can kill them 

 

[KACollver]

Pretty sure this mod takes place in 1809 and not 1812 xD

 

[crodio]

Pretty sure this mod takes place in 1809 and not 1812 xD

It's not like every uniform is going to change dramatically in 3 years XD

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

I guess Ottoman player will not lack bandits and cheap irregulars at early levels, there is plenty of them  Tribals, Highwaymen, Irregular Militia.

I think most logical thing to do would be including all of them in village roster which I'm hoping will be included in future ?


Something like


                              -Bashibozouk skirmisher  -Bashibozouk leader or veteran
Muslim Villager
                              -Tribal cavalry(only for Anatolia and mid east)  -Tribal leader or veteran


A seperate Christian village recruitment, both rosters can get changes depending on region, Christian villager at Greece would become Armotoloi/Martolos, and may be something different at North. Tribal cavalry would be Bedouins at south, Turkish and Kurdish tribals at north. At deep south Bashibozouks might be replaced by some kind of Fallah line as well(not sure).

Edit: it could be like  -Bekchi  -Bashibozouk too.

Just throwing in suggestions, lets discuss.

 

[matmohair1]

Bashibozouk

http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/akinci-corps-deli-cavalry-janissary-period-1860-imperial-army-corps-of-bashi-bazouk/

Spoiler

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

Ok this is what I pulled for Anatolia

                          -Bekchi(needcheck?)        -Bashibozouk      -Bashibozouk Veteran
Muslim Villager
                          -Tribal Cavalry  -Bashibozouk Cavalry


-Muslim Villager: Simple villagers armed with knives, poor yataghans and occasionally old, worned firearms
-Bekchi: Armed with yataghans, scimitars and firearms, poorly skilled
-Bashibozouk: Yataghans, scimitars, pistols and muskets, a little better then Bekchis
-Bashibozouk Veteran: Self explaining
-Tribal Cavalry: Armed with scimitars, occassionally shields, lances and firearms
-Bashibozouk Cavalry: Scimitars, firearms

All poor on moral.

On regular recruitment

-Light Infantry: Sekban  -Sekban Veteran  -Pasha's Sekban

For ranks, since every group of unit had different ranks, something generic need to be pulled

Nefer -Chavush -Bolukbashi  -Binbashi  -Agha  -Pasha

Empty ranks will be filled, as soon as I confirm the existence of some ranks in the date, just need to do more a little research.

@Matmo

You got any info on Tüfenkçis bro ?

On a side note, I hated this period since I started researching, nothing is regular or organized, after Mahmud's reforms, or 1500s-1600s are fine, I know about them, but this period is a mess, its seems like entire army was composed of irregulars with tons of different names.

 

[matmohair1]

Well, the first post has the most recently updated information thus far...

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

The name Tüfenkchi is mentioned there and there but I couldn't find a proper info so far, I'm trying to learn if they were significiant enough to be added to regulars, so far only infantry unit I could add to regulars is Sekban.

Entire provincal infantry might be composed of Sekban and Bashibozouk, no wonder military wasn't much capable. 

 

[matmohair1]

levente Irregulars seem more often mentioned than the Bashibozouks,
who mostly get mentioned a lot during the 1870's.

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

Hmm, Levents are actually marines, but its seems like they indeed had a land branch which was pretty similar to Sekbans.

But I had a quick look and its seems like their Ocak ws abolished at 1776 because of their undisclipline and banditry(as usual, what I was expecting).

 

[Bluehawk]

Maybe a different word instead of sekban, since that would invite confusion with the Sekban-i-cedit.

Besides the Jannisaries (Yeniçeri) there were other regulars that drew salaries called: Kapikulu, including the Porte's household cavalry (Kapıkulu Süvarileri), and the artillery corps (Topçu).
Below them regional irregulars: Toprakli, who were raised by landowners at their own expense, may or may not be a standing force in peace time.
Short-term levies: Miri-Askeri, troops paid by the treasury and taken on campaigns against the enemies of the state.
And regional militias: Yerli Neferat or Gönüllüyun, these were raised by their own lords for keeping the peace and played a strictly defensive role.

Then there were two main kinds of cavalry, regulars and land-owning volunteers: Kapikulu Sipahi and Timarli Sipahi respectively.

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

Janissaries and Kapukulu Sipahis should only be avaiable at capital and  a military depot near capital, possibly 1-2 neighbouring settlements too.

"Topraklı", I think thats just another name of Tımarlıs, or may be something just very similar.

"Miri--Askeri", didn't heard about this, will into it.

"Yerli Neferat", guess thats just another term for "Yerli Kulu" which is a term used to cover entire provincal military, Kapıkulu=Household troops, Yerlikulu= Provincal troops.

"Gönüllüs", well volunteers not sure if they were significiant enough to be included, may be first tier of infantry could be Gönüllüs instead of Bekchis, not sure.

I don't think Sekban would cause much confusion, how many people know about Sekban ı Cedit anyway, besides its the most common word for these troops.

Tımarlı Sipahis will be included in provincal, but I'm trying to decide if in the light cavalry or heavy cavalry section, either way, we have sekbans and tımarlıs, but two slots are still empty. May be Delis for light cav and sipahis for heavy cav ? gotta look into Delis though.

 

[Mosin-Nagant]

IMO (emphasise that) the Ottomans have priority over Scandinavia and the Iberian Peninsula because it'll mix things up, now it's all kinda the same with the troops not differing much.

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

On the ranks, is the amount have to be same as other factions ?

Nefer -Chavush -Bolukbashi  -Binbashi  -Agha  -Pasha 

This is pretty much certain, I'm trying to confirm if the ranks Onbashi, Mulazim and Yuzbashi were used by that(they are certainly used after reforms)

Other options I'm considering is Bayraktar and Odabashi.

Same question for the recruitment, there have to be 4 slots ? line/light inf, hev/light cav ? or it can change ?

 

[Bluehawk]

Did you omit Çorbaci for a reason? Western writers compare it to colonel, as he commanded an orta.

On the subject of cookware, I hope we'll be able to capture the regimental ladles and kettle instead of eagle-standards.