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Das Longbowman
Knight
I hope bonerlord will introduce better romance/courtship and the likes.
Can I at least kiss my wife goodbye before I get whacked by a giant sledgehammer or something?
Can I at least kiss my wife goodbye before I get whacked by a giant sledgehammer or something?
Das Longbowman
Knight
That too.
I seriously want to own a fleet in Bannerlord and attack cities from the coast. Even owning a merchant ship and traveling the coastal trade route could be interesting if there are pirates and Nord raiders to deal with. Ships is how large amounts of goods were moved and it would be neat to see TW tap into that. I always wanted to create a rich merchant that eventually acquires several trade ships and has tones of coin stored in a merchant bank.
JamesThompson
That would be nice.
SmurfInHell
Squire
I would only enjoy naval if it was completely overhauled from previous iterations. I don't know if they have the ability/engine to make it worthwhile and enjoyable in Bannerlord, but that's because I do not know the extent of the engine.
Naval combat and usage would have to be built with it in mind, from the ground up per say, for it work effectively. Ship mechanics are quite difficult to get right between semi-realism and a fun play, and in the department of animations, mechanics, and overall implementation have a LOT to consider.
Now some of you are thinking "Smurfy, you're just being crazy, you've given no examples of any of this!"
To this I say, you're right so let me give some.
Let's start from the basics of movement. Your ship steering would more than likely be controlled by some form of whipstaff/tiller, ship wheels were used more commonly much later (like 1700's). You would need, animations for the people steering said boat, animations for people working sails (this isn't as bad as the massive mast ships seen in later eras), and depending on if there is any form of rowing in the ship, that too.
Now you could say to have a relatively bare minimum setup kind of like in the previous usages of boats, like say in siege servers or some mods. Let me ask you though, does that kind of gameplay where loading bars and a few half-baked animations are supposed to represent the full manning of a ship belong in a game that is aiming for some semblence of immersion? One moment you're commanding an army with so many well developed and in-depth mechanics, animations, and AI specifically for these battles. The next, you're completely taken out of the context as you see loading bars to demonstrate you've got a hold on the steering, and the sails move or stay static as you rotate the ship.
What I'm saying is thus: IF Bannerlord has included ships I would expect them to have said ships included in development relatively early on because something like naval combat has a LOT of ins and outs. It has a ton of animation sink, and it requires working AI on the counterpart who can competently use THEIR ships.
Some of these can be negated slightly, as control of your ship (at least in singleplayer), could be done by your character acting as "commander" of the ship and as you press the A key the crew down near the sails and the ones near the tiller/whipstaff do the appropriate animations and movements to translate your command of "A= move left" into in actual movement. In multiplayer I'm not sure how they could make something like this functionally work because it would either A.) Require teammates to just enter "stations" that would lock them into animations being done when the "Commander" of the ship gives movement input OR B.) Have the animations of a working crew just not present OR C.) All boats would start crewed by NPC's that are locked into said positions with only the "Commander" slot available; As you lose those NPC crew members the reaction time to your commands becomes slower or maybe even to the point of no response.
No, this is not a rant. It's just talking about how difficult good implementation of something like Naval combat / ships are, and that I would not be surprised if Taleworlds is unable to put it in, unless they've been working on it from the start. I would HOPE that if they do implement it, it's not just similar to previous iterations as a sort of immersion breaking / makeshift setup, but for some I believe they would just be happy to have any form of naval stuff in the game. That comes down to personal opinion.
If you want to sit down and take a thought at about how complex naval stuff can really be, take a look at all the nuances in games like Black Flag. I use that as an example for a few reasons: the combat PoV is third person and M&B uses a similar PoV. This matters for the sake of how close one is to see the detail of things like the crew working on the ship, and due to how controls may/could work. That being said: The Black Flag ships would be more complex and have several things that woud not be seen or needed on ships in our age.
Side note: Now including all of this consider the differences of culture and how they would affect ships. Lot of work isn't it?
EDIT For clarity: When it comes to ship sails a variety of setups have been used, and I do not believe a ship with anything more elaborate than maybe some usage of it rotating to catch wind would be used. Would also be based on culture OC, the operation of sails themselves would be mainly for the acceleration of the ship (Via full sail catching wind, or half sail, ETC)
Naval combat and usage would have to be built with it in mind, from the ground up per say, for it work effectively. Ship mechanics are quite difficult to get right between semi-realism and a fun play, and in the department of animations, mechanics, and overall implementation have a LOT to consider.
Now some of you are thinking "Smurfy, you're just being crazy, you've given no examples of any of this!"
To this I say, you're right so let me give some.
Let's start from the basics of movement. Your ship steering would more than likely be controlled by some form of whipstaff/tiller, ship wheels were used more commonly much later (like 1700's). You would need, animations for the people steering said boat, animations for people working sails (this isn't as bad as the massive mast ships seen in later eras), and depending on if there is any form of rowing in the ship, that too.
Now you could say to have a relatively bare minimum setup kind of like in the previous usages of boats, like say in siege servers or some mods. Let me ask you though, does that kind of gameplay where loading bars and a few half-baked animations are supposed to represent the full manning of a ship belong in a game that is aiming for some semblence of immersion? One moment you're commanding an army with so many well developed and in-depth mechanics, animations, and AI specifically for these battles. The next, you're completely taken out of the context as you see loading bars to demonstrate you've got a hold on the steering, and the sails move or stay static as you rotate the ship.
What I'm saying is thus: IF Bannerlord has included ships I would expect them to have said ships included in development relatively early on because something like naval combat has a LOT of ins and outs. It has a ton of animation sink, and it requires working AI on the counterpart who can competently use THEIR ships.
Some of these can be negated slightly, as control of your ship (at least in singleplayer), could be done by your character acting as "commander" of the ship and as you press the A key the crew down near the sails and the ones near the tiller/whipstaff do the appropriate animations and movements to translate your command of "A= move left" into in actual movement. In multiplayer I'm not sure how they could make something like this functionally work because it would either A.) Require teammates to just enter "stations" that would lock them into animations being done when the "Commander" of the ship gives movement input OR B.) Have the animations of a working crew just not present OR C.) All boats would start crewed by NPC's that are locked into said positions with only the "Commander" slot available; As you lose those NPC crew members the reaction time to your commands becomes slower or maybe even to the point of no response.
No, this is not a rant. It's just talking about how difficult good implementation of something like Naval combat / ships are, and that I would not be surprised if Taleworlds is unable to put it in, unless they've been working on it from the start. I would HOPE that if they do implement it, it's not just similar to previous iterations as a sort of immersion breaking / makeshift setup, but for some I believe they would just be happy to have any form of naval stuff in the game. That comes down to personal opinion.
If you want to sit down and take a thought at about how complex naval stuff can really be, take a look at all the nuances in games like Black Flag. I use that as an example for a few reasons: the combat PoV is third person and M&B uses a similar PoV. This matters for the sake of how close one is to see the detail of things like the crew working on the ship, and due to how controls may/could work. That being said: The Black Flag ships would be more complex and have several things that woud not be seen or needed on ships in our age.
Side note: Now including all of this consider the differences of culture and how they would affect ships. Lot of work isn't it?
EDIT For clarity: When it comes to ship sails a variety of setups have been used, and I do not believe a ship with anything more elaborate than maybe some usage of it rotating to catch wind would be used. Would also be based on culture OC, the operation of sails themselves would be mainly for the acceleration of the ship (Via full sail catching wind, or half sail, ETC)
reiksmarshal said:I seriously want to own a fleet in Bannerlord and attack cities from the coast. Even owning a merchant ship and traveling the coastal trade route could be interesting if there are pirates and Nord raiders to deal with. Ships is how large amounts of goods were moved and it would be neat to see TW tap into that. I always wanted to create a rich merchant that eventually acquires several trade ships and has tones of coin stored in a merchant bank.
I have confidence that we will be able to choose ship production as an industry for villages in Bannerlord.
Nickel Kingins
Veteran
Two thing I wanted to see in Bannerlord
1.Dynamic gameplay - Where lords fight with each other for land, love, revenge, money or for "sake of honor!" with ton of background event happening like Crusader Kings 2 event.
2.
That what I wanted to see but let find out when it come out or though beta maybe.
1.Dynamic gameplay - Where lords fight with each other for land, love, revenge, money or for "sake of honor!" with ton of background event happening like Crusader Kings 2 event.
2.
ThisLongbowman' said:
That what I wanted to see but let find out when it come out or though beta maybe.
Given the amount of work it would take to add naval mechanics to the game, I wouldn't mind if it was released as part of a DLC/expansion. Of course this would have to include lands across the sea to make it more fun.
That's actually a good idea for an expansion. Maybe we'd finally get a glimpse of Geroia.
My thoughts exactly. The great thing about mount and blade is that undoubtedly naval features will be modded in regardless of if the devs run with the idea. Modders can be extremely talented. The Pirates and Fishmod is a prime example. Some very special people just have a way of turning the mount and blade engine into their *****.
SmurfInHell
Squire
I would agree, an expansion could do it pretty well. As ships would be/require the main focus.
creuzet
Sergeant at Arms
A short bannerlord story and some feature inspiration
It’s sunrise. Lord Pigritius wakes up in his bedchambers, atop of his keep. The servants come with a bowl of water for him and his dear Lady Messalina to wash if they pleased, and help them to get dressed.
Lord Pigritius descends the stairs of his keep. As he passes through the hall, his subjects are already awoken, and all go out to the castle’s chapel to attend Mass. Because Lord Pigritius is a very religious man, he makes sure the chapel is always beautifully decorated and the fat priest Hypocritius is always fatter. God is pleased.
Lord Pigritius takes his lady and his servants to his hall, to break his fast. Only some bread and light ale are served, perhaps some fruits. The Lord sits in a higher table than the rest. By his side are his lady wife, his steward, his captain of the guard, perhaps Hypocritius, his son and heir Lordling Rufus and his fair daughters Sybilla and Palmyra.
After fasting, the proud Lord goes on his lordly duties: administers justice, condemning three poachers to lose their hands; recieves the taxes due by his tenants, who agree to pay their 10% to the church and 20% to their Lord; deals with an envoy from his neighbour Lord Sulphurus, who offers to marry his son Procrustus to his fair daughter Palmyra; and sends word to the wine merchant in Mosstown to bring a dozen pipes of Chianti wine.
Once he is done, Lord Pigritius goes to the yard of his castle, along with his son Rufus and his captain of the guard. He oversees the archery pratices, praising his son for the remarkable feature of hitting the target once in 274 tries. Some of the guardsmen are praticing with their swords and shields, and the mighty Lord shows his prowess in arms by single-handedly knocking all of them out with his belly.
After that exausting time, the Lord decides it is time for some recreation. He calls for the kennel keeper to bring his best hounds, and orders his men to mount; they are gouing into the Pisswood, in the Lord’s domains, for a hunt. Once all are prepared, the Lord bids farewell to his lady wife and his steward, whom are en route to the Lords bedchamber to discuss matters of importance. Lord Pigritius rides away through the Mud Gate of his castle, followed by his party.
As they cross the bridge over the Weewater river, they see a merchant arguing with a guardsman. The Lord demands to know what is happening, and it turns out that the wine merchant didn’t want to pay a 40% fee to cross the river. The generous Lord halves it to 60% and rides away. Sadly, the Lord is not exceptionally good with numbers.
After a long chase, Lord Pigritius and his party manage to catch a big deer. In their way back home, the Lord boasts of his hunting skills, and how he was the terror of the squirrels and bunnies of the realm in his youth. Back to the castle, it’s time for dinner; the Lord takes his place in the hall along with his subjects and family. Today, he has a great announcement: the bethrotal of his daughter Palmyra to Lord Procrustus; Everybody cheers. He raises a taste to the match, in wich he is accompanied by his court, and takes his huge cask of Chianti wine in one breath.And proceeds to eat: roasted chicken, pork, beef, mutton and deer; plenty of bread; wine and ale; soups and potages; salt fish; fruits; and even exotic lemoncakes.
When the meal is over, the Lord has a bellyful, but suddenly possessed by desire,and decides to take some rest after such a burden some day. He goes upstair with his lady wife, and no longer after both have taken off their clothes, the Lord asks:
-Messalina, where did you learn these new abominations? I love it!
When Lord Pigritius is done with his duties as husband, he leaves his lady wife in his bedchmbers and descends the stairs to meet with his treasurer and the envoy of Lord Sulphurus, to arrenge the details of the wedding. In his way to the hall, The Lord meets Father Hypocritius, whom goes in the opposite direction. He says that Lady Messalina hasn’t confessed yet, and sent word to him to come to her as she felt indisposed.The Lord takes the blessing of the priest and goes to the hall.
He talks with the envoy, and insists that the wedding be made in his castle, not Lord Sulphurus’. He also wants the father of the bridegroom to give his daughter a decent wedding gift, perhaps the villages of Crookhall and Thugstone. The envoy refuses, saying that his Lord wants to pay for half the expenses whilst Lord Pigritius pays the other half, and that the wedding happens in the Cathedral of Mosstown. They are still arguing when a page announces the arrival of Sir Crappus, Lord Pigritius brother. The Lord orders that supper is served immediately and all come to welcome his brother.
The Lord sits in his hall by the fire, with his relatives, drinking his Chianti and talking to his brother of their adventures in the Second Butthurt War. Sir Crappus bursts into laughter, telling drunken jokes of how Rufus resembles the steward, Palmyra is as fat as Father Hypocritius and Sybilla has the face of a hound. Laughing, too, Lord Pigritius asks fore the last cup of wine - the Sleep Wine - and tells the singer to sing Justinus Biboerius’ songs.
It’s evening already. All the subjects go to the Hall for their sleep. The Lord, half drunk, climbs the stairs with the help of his son, for his sleep, barely noticing this lady wife skipping to the yard, in company of the kennel master, to the barns.
Lord Pigritius descends the stairs of his keep. As he passes through the hall, his subjects are already awoken, and all go out to the castle’s chapel to attend Mass. Because Lord Pigritius is a very religious man, he makes sure the chapel is always beautifully decorated and the fat priest Hypocritius is always fatter. God is pleased.
Lord Pigritius takes his lady and his servants to his hall, to break his fast. Only some bread and light ale are served, perhaps some fruits. The Lord sits in a higher table than the rest. By his side are his lady wife, his steward, his captain of the guard, perhaps Hypocritius, his son and heir Lordling Rufus and his fair daughters Sybilla and Palmyra.
After fasting, the proud Lord goes on his lordly duties: administers justice, condemning three poachers to lose their hands; recieves the taxes due by his tenants, who agree to pay their 10% to the church and 20% to their Lord; deals with an envoy from his neighbour Lord Sulphurus, who offers to marry his son Procrustus to his fair daughter Palmyra; and sends word to the wine merchant in Mosstown to bring a dozen pipes of Chianti wine.
Once he is done, Lord Pigritius goes to the yard of his castle, along with his son Rufus and his captain of the guard. He oversees the archery pratices, praising his son for the remarkable feature of hitting the target once in 274 tries. Some of the guardsmen are praticing with their swords and shields, and the mighty Lord shows his prowess in arms by single-handedly knocking all of them out with his belly.
After that exausting time, the Lord decides it is time for some recreation. He calls for the kennel keeper to bring his best hounds, and orders his men to mount; they are gouing into the Pisswood, in the Lord’s domains, for a hunt. Once all are prepared, the Lord bids farewell to his lady wife and his steward, whom are en route to the Lords bedchamber to discuss matters of importance. Lord Pigritius rides away through the Mud Gate of his castle, followed by his party.
As they cross the bridge over the Weewater river, they see a merchant arguing with a guardsman. The Lord demands to know what is happening, and it turns out that the wine merchant didn’t want to pay a 40% fee to cross the river. The generous Lord halves it to 60% and rides away. Sadly, the Lord is not exceptionally good with numbers.
After a long chase, Lord Pigritius and his party manage to catch a big deer. In their way back home, the Lord boasts of his hunting skills, and how he was the terror of the squirrels and bunnies of the realm in his youth. Back to the castle, it’s time for dinner; the Lord takes his place in the hall along with his subjects and family. Today, he has a great announcement: the bethrotal of his daughter Palmyra to Lord Procrustus; Everybody cheers. He raises a taste to the match, in wich he is accompanied by his court, and takes his huge cask of Chianti wine in one breath.And proceeds to eat: roasted chicken, pork, beef, mutton and deer; plenty of bread; wine and ale; soups and potages; salt fish; fruits; and even exotic lemoncakes.
When the meal is over, the Lord has a bellyful, but suddenly possessed by desire,and decides to take some rest after such a burden some day. He goes upstair with his lady wife, and no longer after both have taken off their clothes, the Lord asks:
-Messalina, where did you learn these new abominations? I love it!
When Lord Pigritius is done with his duties as husband, he leaves his lady wife in his bedchmbers and descends the stairs to meet with his treasurer and the envoy of Lord Sulphurus, to arrenge the details of the wedding. In his way to the hall, The Lord meets Father Hypocritius, whom goes in the opposite direction. He says that Lady Messalina hasn’t confessed yet, and sent word to him to come to her as she felt indisposed.The Lord takes the blessing of the priest and goes to the hall.
He talks with the envoy, and insists that the wedding be made in his castle, not Lord Sulphurus’. He also wants the father of the bridegroom to give his daughter a decent wedding gift, perhaps the villages of Crookhall and Thugstone. The envoy refuses, saying that his Lord wants to pay for half the expenses whilst Lord Pigritius pays the other half, and that the wedding happens in the Cathedral of Mosstown. They are still arguing when a page announces the arrival of Sir Crappus, Lord Pigritius brother. The Lord orders that supper is served immediately and all come to welcome his brother.
The Lord sits in his hall by the fire, with his relatives, drinking his Chianti and talking to his brother of their adventures in the Second Butthurt War. Sir Crappus bursts into laughter, telling drunken jokes of how Rufus resembles the steward, Palmyra is as fat as Father Hypocritius and Sybilla has the face of a hound. Laughing, too, Lord Pigritius asks fore the last cup of wine - the Sleep Wine - and tells the singer to sing Justinus Biboerius’ songs.
It’s evening already. All the subjects go to the Hall for their sleep. The Lord, half drunk, climbs the stairs with the help of his son, for his sleep, barely noticing this lady wife skipping to the yard, in company of the kennel master, to the barns.
Hidde112 said:
Oh, well, happy belated birthday to you then!
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Anyways, we still havent heard much about how will economy works in Bannerlord... does anyone know if it will be more in depth rather than having everything "automated"? That'd be neat... I just see so much potential to change whenever i go to a village and they tell me "Ohh we mainly produce this, that, blah, blah and bleh..." Hell, i wanna choose whats the best for them to produce.
Der Kopfsammler said:
All lords, AI and player, choose what their villages produce. Each village has four plots, which can be used for various productive activities such as farming, mining or raising horses- or a castle can be built on one plot. The raw materials produced by that village then go to the nearest town to be traded and consumed. So yes,you can choose what they produce, and it will have a real effect on the supply of those things.
Plovercrest
Sir_Newton said:
Or a "new world" campaign/expansion/landmass, introducing tribal factions (and new board games).
Das Longbowman
Knight
Tribal factions would be nice. Adds an imperialist-ish feel to it.
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