Is bannerlord stuck in development hell though?Salmonsy said:
It's been delayed, but that's not necessarily a bad sign, many great games had delayed release and developments.
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It's been delayed, but that's not necessarily a bad sign, many great games had delayed release and developments.
Salmonsy
Veteran
Rungsted93 said:
It's not only that, they also don't have a clear vision how the finished game should actually look like. Case in point, character aging being one of the features that may or may not make it into the game as confirmed by Captain Lust. This of course means that there's either a lot of work that needs to be done to get the feature in the game or a lot of work being wasted if they already worked on it yet decide that this feature isn't going to make it into the game. Again, I can recommend reading through that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Duke_Nukem_Forever
Obviously we don't know anything about the internal development processes happening at Taleworlds, but as an outside observer, it's not hard to see at least some parallels here. Some key points from the article:
While critics were impressed, Broussard was not happy with the progress being made. - At the end of the Quake 2 engine era for DNF.
After discussions, the developers unanimously agreed to the change, which would mean scrapping much of their work so far, including significant changes 3D Realms had made to the Quake Engine - The decision to switch to the new and better Unreal Engine, wasting lots and lots of time and work.
A significant factor contributing to the game's protracted development was that Broussard was continually looking to add new elements to the game. A running joke at 3D Realms was to stop Broussard from seeing a new video game, as he would want to include portions of it in Duke Nukem Forever. - Why feature creep is bad. We don't know if the same thing is happening for Bannerlord, though it might very well be.
Former employees recalled that Broussard did not have a plan for what the finished game would look like. - This seems to be the case with Bannerlord as well. Being at least 5 years in development Taleworlds are still unable to decide if a game-changing feature like aging should actually be in the game or not, instead still tweaking things like combat and the engine.
Duke Nukem Forever looked as good or better than most games, and staff at 3D Realms recalled a sense of elation after the presentation; "The video was just being eaten up by people," one said. "We were so far ahead of other people at the time." While many of the staff expected Broussard to make a push for finishing the game, however, he still did not have a finished product in mind - After a showcase of the game during E3 2001. We don't know what lead Taleworlds to the decision to forego the plans to release some form of Early Access at the end of 2016/early 2017, but the comments by Captain Lust point into the exact same direction, i.e. combat not being done, the team being unable to decide what features should be in the game etc.
One former employee said that Broussard and Miller were still operating on a "1995 mentality", before games became large-team, big budget development affairs.
That one is also important and reflects reviews about Taleworlds can be found on glassdoor, where employees and former employees can review the company they work or worked for. Management being unable to adapt to the changes that inevitably happen when you try to expand.
There are some more, but I don't want to make this post bigger than it already is. My point is that I don't think Taleworlds has a malicious intend in mind. I don't think they want to push console sales or that there is some clever marketing ploy in play here. For me at least it is pretty obvious they underestimated the challenges that would come with Bannerlord and/or lack a clear vision how the game should look like. And that's where the silence comes from, there's simply nothing to show or tell because they themselves simply don't know.
Yeah i never actually thought about that... I mean it's okay to further develop a game and have stuff planned! But if you after 6 years of development don't know whether there will be Co-op and/or Death/Playing as heirs in the game yet it's pretty bad actually...
redwitch
Regular
well, what Salmonsy wrote may actually be true, it sounds plausible, but it's just a speculation among others, it might as well be that TW simply doesn't want to confirm any feature unless it is 100% implemented and working. I don't really think that's necessarily a lack of vision that prevents them from being transparent but the privilege of being in the position to afford it. On the one hand, they don't have the pressure from a publisher, but on the other, being presumably in a financially comfortable situation, they also don't depend on courting a fanbase. They are independent in both senses, at least for the time being.
Bannerlord Versus, featuring a story of fallen western empire prince and his comrades to take back the throne and unite the empires again. 
Just kidding
Just kidding
Salmonsy
Veteran
It's speculating based on what we know so far, but not mere guessing without any kind of information whatsoever. There's a difference there and I think I made some good points and backed them up with statements made by the devs themselves. Sure, there's always room to interpret a statement one way or the other, but there have been games in the past that had a somewhat similar history. Now I'm not saying that Bannerlord will most certainly be the next DNF, I'm just saying that there are some parallels.MrMundy said:
It's always a good idea to check what someone says against the reality, a practice commonly called a reality check. If we do a reality check on both of your statements you've hastily thrown in to cement your point, i.e. that we don't know anything and the development cycle might either be perfectly going according to plan or the development halted years ago, they'll crumble pretty fast.
If the development of the game would proceed as planned, some sort of playable version should've been already released. Also, the premature announcement 5 years ago speaks against that as well. The concept phase should also be already left behind, yet in parts it is obviously still there, being that the devs are not sure if earlier announced features are actually going to make it - character aging was confirmed in blog 12 only to be later downgraded to a 'maybe'.
If the development halted years ago, they wouldn't have been able to present gameplay on the PC Gamer Weekender in March and the E3 in June 2016. And they sure as hell wouldn't have hinted at some sort of release at the end of 2016.
Again, if you can be bothered to snoop around for tidbits and snippets regarding the development of Bannerlord - the glassdoor reviews being the most important thing here - it is easy to see why the development takes so long, especially if you have a similar development cycle to compare it to. So yes, it's still speculating, no you don't have to believe me, you are free to make your own conclusion but it's not like we know absolutely nothing and pointless guessing is all that is possible.
Good God this is still going on. I come and check here like once a month and just cant believe the Bannerlord Blog has had zero updates in like 7 months..??! Shirley they know how starved people are for heck, anything they could throw a bone. Hell even a
"we're playing it like crazy at the office and..its awesome. You girls are missing out BIG!"
would do wonders for morale around here
"we're playing it like crazy at the office and..its awesome. You girls are missing out BIG!"
would do wonders for morale around here
Turks were never good with sharing information anyway. They are too busy tresspassing Greece's seas at the moment. Considering their goverment pays TW too, they probably stopped the development of the game for a few months so they can go to some greek islands with expensive warboats.
mridhomm11 said:Bannerlord Versus, featuring a story of fallen western empire prince and his comrades to take back the throne and unite the empires again.
Just kidding
That would actually be cool. They stated they wanted to implement a story, just like they did in VC.
578 said:Turks were never good with sharing information anyway. They are too busy tresspassing Greece's seas at the moment. Considering their goverment pays TW too, they probably stopped the development of the game for a few months so they can go to some greek islands with expensive warboats.
578 said:Turks were never good with sharing information anyway. They are too busy tresspassing Greece's seas at the moment. Considering their goverment pays TW too, they probably stopped the development of the game for a few months so they can go to some greek islands with expensive warboats.
Plovercrest
wildyracing said:
I wouldn't go that far. My want to purchase has gone from a day 1 buy, to a wait for reviews and get on sale buy. Unless of course they come out with something that blows my mind (better graphics and animations please). I'm actually becoming more interested in Kingdom Come: Deliverance now. Yes, I know it isn't the same. It scratches much of the same itch.
Plovercrest said:
Yeah i feel a bit the same... lost a lot of hype over the years... If there's no Co-op i can play with my friends i'm not even so sure i'm going to buy the game before a sale as well
I'm not doubting the game eventually will be good but rarely when a game is being redone multiple times with no clear direction it doesn't turn out perfectly... But we can hope!
Just wish some day to see a mix of Crusader kings and Mount & Blade! That would be the perfect game.
Rungsted93 said:
Crusader Kings and M&B? Those are about as different of genres as you can get. Are you hoping for a CK but you fight in each battle? That would take ages to finish
They are broadly very similar; based in medieval times, simulating kingdoms and warfare, with castles and towns that can be captured and provide income to lords. The detailed hierarchies and laws etc. of Crusader Kings could add a lot to M&B, whereas obviously M&B has RPG gameplay and a much less abstract simulation of combat.
I didn't say it would be easy to make the game it would obviously be on a smaller scale But i would love having a huge open world with counties, baronies etc. And in this world make a living! Imagine actually inviting people to your castle and make a red wedding type of thing etc. Armies could be same size and scaled same way as in Warband/Bannerlord
But i would love having a huge open world with counties, baronies etc. And in this world make a living! Imagine actually inviting people to your castle and make a red wedding type of thing etc. Armies could be same size and scaled same way as in Warband/Bannerlord 
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