Most feared elite unit

[Master BOB]

Ehm, picks are imho very effective weapons. My cavalry ranger usually are equipped with one, and one of my lower chars (a merchant) also used a pick. The length of the weapon is something you can compensate with knowing what to do. In fact, I never used a morningstar because it has neither speed nor range. Damage is completely irrelevant if you can't hit properly (which is easy while fighting on horse, but try that on foot against two enemies). That's the reason why a tanto or nunchuk can be far more dangerous than most people think if the user knows how to compensate the lack of range.

 

[LokiGodOfFire]

Inquisitors are a good unit, but they lack the ranged attack option, thats why they are horse archer fodder, they are excellent when it comes to siege a castle, but against marksmen they loose. Their equipment is pretty good and looks ok, but i never feared 'em. My "nemesis" are the archers, the ai is pretty good and the bow skill is higher than the temperature in hell!

 

[fisheye]

Looks like the Vaegir Master Archers need an armor / melee weapon reduction. Their high level gives them huge stats which makes them tough in melee despite having crappy melee proficiencies. I like their deadliness at range though.

 

[HardCode]

Yeah. In my personal tweak, I just game them a Sword, and that seems to work out pretty good. Although, I think they could use a slight armor reduction.

 

[Roamer]

Through the trial and error method I found out that there is something wrong with the master archers. Not to mention that they are able to hit me covering myself with a kite shield, they also deal 50+ damage per hit. My guess is that they make headshots solely. Now I'm standing against a nord champion with a war bow and a bag of khergit arrows and make a head shot with my power bend skill at 10 (don't ask). I deliver 43 damage or around that. Our helms are around the same, so I naturally come up with a question "what in the seven hells is going on here"?
As for their armour, I think its fine if they would wield something less murderous than their two-handers.

And I truly believe that rhodoks can use some troop improvement. As they are now, you can meet them on a plain and beat the hell out of them with just a handfull of cavalrymen. I took down around a hundred meself, switching to a lance when I got tired of swinging the morningstar. In a village or in mountains they are tougher, yes, but that is a poor excuse. Their crossbowmen need to be be a little more accurate, because I don't usually notice them at all. And I think rhodok elite needs either tougher armour or longer polearms (or both probably) to fight off cavalry. Otherwise they are just a joke of a warrior.

P.S.

Cavalry is usually uncapable of tying another cavalry troop. When you go against Dark Knights you end up chasing them all around the place, while their crossbowmen try to take you down. Most of the time they are successful.

I was speaking more in terms of infantry(only chickens fight from a horse ) but cavalry do tie up other cavalry. As you pointed out, you end up chasing them over hill and over dale.

Oh... I guess then we have different views on the meaning of "tying up".
The problem with the enemy cavalry is that when your infantry is scattered throughout the battlefield they take your men down easily. Dark Knight do, anyways. For the infantry to be successful against large mounted troops you need to have no cavalry at all. The enemy cavalrymen will rush into the crowd and get stuck there, because there is no one else to attack. And in a crowd cavalry becomes much less potent. it would also make the enemy marksmen less effective as they would not fire if there is a chance if hitting their own men.

 

[cadaverescu]

ok...
i loughed so loud my neibours could hear me...
there are quite some ppl that fear the rhodoc`s ms.... =))
the master archers are quite the bane of a infanteryman existence coz of their incredibile shot...
but as i fight mounted archer with no shield ... we charge trough them... and they do not shoot as the moment we come in range we are mixed with their horseman (they would be quite deadly if only infantery....) so in village raids and in castle raids they rule...
in the battlefield the swadian lancers get the best of me... every 10 kills one of them gets me off my horse...



I realy think the rhodoc needs more speed... if they would have like 7-10 athletics on their ms they would be something... otherwise they are just cannon fooder..
i beat 400 rh with 70 and i only had to solo 30 ppl on the first round (after they killed my 4 troops).
the thing about rh is that they travel in packs... large ones.
anyway how much health do the bk have.. i have the feeliing they have like ... 70+ all of them...

 

[Master BOB]

ok...
i loughed so loud my neibours could hear me...
there are quite some ppl that fear the rhodoc`s ms.... =))

Whatever "ms" means, I guess you're talking about heavy infantry in general. Just a little hint: there are some people who are bored of playing an almost unbeatable army of heavy armored knights. Did you ever try fighting heavy infantry on foot? Or let me ask more precisely: did you ever face heavy infantry while being outnumbered 3:1 or more?
Although I don't fight Rhodocs (not yet, swadians and vaegirs have to vanish first), that is a quite usual situation for me, facing swadian heavy infantry now and then, usually when I'm already weakened from fighting their cavalrymen before. And I can tell you that they are quite annoying in such situations.

If you like playing god, so be it. But I suggest you don't lough at people who play a different way, only because there are some troops they can't just flip away. Actually, that's the reason WHY they play in that different way.

 

[Roamer]

If you like playing god, so be it. But I suggest you don't lough at people who play a different way, only because there are some troops they can't just flip away. Actually, that's the reason WHY they play in that different way.

Precisely. But what is the point of making rhodoks all footmen if I, being outnumbered about 8 to 1 (400 against 50), with my cavalry (mostly ranger guardians) could beat them easily on a valley? And I didn't reduce the damage or something. Only when I've put the limit up to 199 I began feeling their halberds on me hide. On the other hand, my machine started moaning badly, so this is not the best way out.
That said, the very image of the vaegir king with his 200 and some more soldiers makes me run like hell, because I know that even with my 80 men I do not stand a chance against them. And this means really poor balance of the troops.

P.S. I guess "ms" means master sergeants. They do deal a good amount of damage (two hits and off the horse you go), but it is so easy to evade them when you are not soloing that there is little point in their damage.

 

[Sven the Strong]

I have the most trouble with Master Archers, but then again I have trouble with all archers. I hadn't noticed them being particularly good
in melee combat but that is where I have most of my skill anyway.

 

[AvaRice]

If you like playing god, so be it. But I suggest you don't lough at people who play a different way, only because there are some troops they can't just flip away. Actually, that's the reason WHY they play in that different way.

Precisely. But what is the point of making rhodoks all footmen if I, being outnumbered about 8 to 1 (400 against 50), with my cavalry (mostly ranger guardians) could beat them easily on a valley? And I didn't reduce the damage or something. Only when I've put the limit up to 199 I began feeling their halberds on me hide. On the other hand, my machine started moaning badly, so this is not the best way out.
That said, the very image of the vaegir king with his 200 and some more soldiers makes me run like hell, because I know that even with my 80 men I do not stand a chance against them. And this means really poor balance of the troops.

P.S. I guess "ms" means master sergeants. They do deal a good amount of damage (two hits and off the horse you go), but it is so easy to evade them when you are not soloing that there is little point in their damage.

That explains some things. I play battlesize 200 with all companion party. Seeing 100+ heavy infantry marching in unison about to reach my line is far more frightening to me than a wave of cavalry. There's really no soldier that you should have trouble soloing. The bigger worry for me is having my companions get knocked unconscious and end up wounded for a week.

 

[Roamer]

That explains some things. I play battlesize 200 with all companion party. Seeing 100+ heavy infantry marching in unison about to reach my line is far more frightening to me than a wave of cavalry. There's really no soldier that you should have trouble soloing. The bigger worry for me is having my companions get knocked unconscious and end up wounded for a week.

Well, I'm not sure how many recruitable NPC characters there are in the game, but I doubt that the number exceeds 20. And I have completely no idea how to take down a 70-men troop of Dark Hunters with 20 warriors only... to say nothing of slaying the .5 k garrison of a city.
As for soloing a soldier there is no problem, but when it comes to some 100 men, then I have problems. And those are real big problems. And that's what a battlefield would look like if you are outnumbered 25 to 1 and on.

Anyhow I don't see much difference in playing styles. All fractions should have similar battle capability in any proportion. Now, as I've pointed out already, vaegirs rule supreme.

 

[Uriens]

Rhodocks, at the moment, are complete pushovers against any cavalry oriented force. I'm playing with max battlesize that my PC allows me and still take out their forces that are 3 or 4 times larger then mine with almost no casualties. And in my current game I don't even use horse archer char. Just melee and still they fall like weed. Playing Swadians is probably the best way to feel how much weaker they are in comparison to other factions. As Swadian you get to fight against Rhodocks and Vaegirs and the difference in difficulty when you fight Vaegir and then Rhodok party is like turning from Hard  difficulty to Tutorial. I had a case where I took out a group of 90 Rhodocks with group of 34 heroes and swadian cavalry with no losses or wounded heroes at all. I didn't get any damage at all and had trouble scoring any kills myself. They were simply ran over and it was like they were erased them from map. I never had such easy victories against any other faction.
The complete lack of cavalry makes them so easy to beat so I believe that adding some cavalry would help them go long way. Since the intent is obviously to make faction that is infantry oriented I suggest adding light cavalry only with light armor and fast horses armed with polearms only. They woundn't make a bulk of the army but they would make a significant distraction to horse enemies to either take out some with polearm charge or to draw some enemies away from them main core of the army significantly reducing the pressure on them.
The way Rhodocks are now, it's like I'm fighting heavily armored river pirates.

 

[Leatherneck18]

I agree with you on the fact that Rhodok army needs some light cavalry lancers that are fast but pack somewhat of a punch sorta like Prodromoi scouts(Macedonian Army usually Thracian or northern Macedonian Tribes) who were Lancers and scouts that could stand up on their own to heavy Persian cavalry for some time.


Since I play as the Rhodoks I must say the most feared army or unit is the Swadian Inquisitors. Most of their parties have a decent number of them and Swadian Knights it is almost impossible to stop them in a charge. Usually I have about 35-40 Infantry and crossbowmen and almost all the Heroes as cavalry and I do not stand a chance in a charge against them at all.If I ever do beat them which does happen at times I usually lose more than 1/2 of my army and I just take all their prisoners.

One time I stood in the battle line with my troops in first person view and took their charge of the Inquisitors and almost lost half my life on the first charge haha and probably the scariest thing I have seen in the game.

 

[cadaverescu]

so 30 vs 30 in a battlefield...
me vs rhodocs- they stand no chance
me on foot with everyone on foot - no chance ( i play on foot on dificult terain)
they get killed by the incredibile fact that all my army is a horse archer/lancer/warhammers and except 5 ms all the rest of a wave gets slayed. the Ms gets slayed by the wh+lancers around them by simple gang-banging.
the secret of killing rhodocs is to hold your archers line, meanwhile you distract the lancers so even the shielded one turn their back on the archers

the vaegirs
(annoing ones- probabily the toughest faction in the game)
you pass trough the cavalery and keep going trough the archers. turn around then go again.. then again... by this time they have reinforcements .. run towards the reinforcements and kill the infantery... At all the time the troops keep folowing you.
(siege is difficult with these ones). you use the blunt wh+ shield+bow and arrows. let them charge in the begining (they just shoot) and then order to go blunt... it goes decently.


the swadians
the second runner up to the toughest faction
they can be defeated in 1 way

hold the line
dismount
go and kill the sharpshooters while your archers protected by the horses can no longer be charged.

nords...
rareley fight these ones... as i play khergit we are almost never at war
i usualy trample trough them similar way to vaegir

khergits....
never run after them (dah!!)
hold your line or follow you. I realy do not have a way to kill them efficiently (so i can kill 3-1), then again i never needed one.
i feel the need for the khergits to have a khergit knight with lance+shield+blunt hammer+thowing knives
the lancers are quite week..

 

[Timber]

Just something I've noticed..

Why are there level 30 vaegir master archers, and probably level 30 swadian inquisitors, but only level 28 Nord Champions?

After all, in Native, the Champions are higher level and have higher weapon skills than anyone else.

 

[mfberg]

Yup, the Nord Champs need some lovin', I give them a minimum IS/PS/PD/PT of 4 each. That puts some respect back into the opponents.

mfberg

 

[lancer63]

khergits....
never run after them (dah!!)
hold your line or follow you. I realy do not have a way to kill them efficiently (so i can kill 3-1), then again i never needed one.
i feel the need for the khergits to have a khergit knight with lance+shield+blunt hammer+thowing knives
the lancers are quite week..

I agree that Khergits as individuals are weaker than most mounted melee units. But that´s maybe because they're suposed to come to you as groups of light cavalry and they're superb at that. Unless you have a very good counter archer force against those devils you're in for a licking of royal proportions. Either that or a force with such high stats as to be oblivious to misiles other than jarids and the strongest bows. Pity that by then I grow bored of my char and create another from scratch or another game/mod version comes out. Cheers!

 

[EasyCo506]

Problem.

I just got 19 steppe lords (cheated, duh) to see what they could do. After the initial volley, they dropped their bows and got out swords and spears! And I lost about 9 of them because of this. Is there a way to STOP THEM FROM DOING THAT!?

 

[HardCode]

Not without removing the ranged weapons, because as far as I can tell, the actual game engine is handling the AI.

 

[redazncommiedxp]

East Asiatic Dragon Lords if you can count minor faction units.

Heavy Armour, Insane attack speed, top quality weapons/horses    the only way i can beat them is by getting all my Rhodok spear units into a big huddle around some rocks or tree's while i ride out to kill there infantry before they slaugher mine.

Is there such a unit?  I've never encountered it.