Gun wankery
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Except the Mannlicher is not mentioned on the list of influential rifles. 
Furthermore, the Garand used a clip (attempted) patented by John Petersen during the development race of those two designers - not a Mannlicher design.
Besides, the list of en bloc using rifles is rather long:
Furthermore, the Garand used a clip (attempted) patented by John Petersen during the development race of those two designers - not a Mannlicher design.
Besides, the list of en bloc using rifles is rather long:
Doctor Dingleberry said:
Someone invents the thing, the other guy copies the idea and makes the clip symmetrical. The third guy takes the symmetrical clip. No, no, the first guy had no role in it whatsoever
In regards to all the rifles listed, one has to wonder - what is the system they use named?
In regards to all the rifles listed, one has to wonder - what is the system they use named?
Mannlicher system or not, there's no justification to the statement that the use of the same magazine system makes one firearm the grandfather of another. Operating system; yes. Magazine system; no.
An example: The STG is considered the father of assault rifles - but it's not the direct parent of the AK-47, despite them using the same magazine system, and both being assault rifles. They use a different operating system.
An example: The STG is considered the father of assault rifles - but it's not the direct parent of the AK-47, despite them using the same magazine system, and both being assault rifles. They use a different operating system.
Are you really quoting the Memorandum on Methodology of Ascertaining Genealogy of Long Firearms adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations on the 25th of March 2018 via Resolution 52/307?
Also, your example with AK and STG does not work that well as the feed system is definitely not as distinctive for the AK as it is for the Garand.
Also, your example with AK and STG does not work that well as the feed system is definitely not as distinctive for the AK as it is for the Garand.
Hey, you're the one that started the Firearm Genealogy bull**** - can't help that I'm better at it than you are.
Not as distinctive? How many other rifles had 30 round detachable magazines at the time these two rifles were developed? It was very distinctive to have a magazine of 30 rounds on a general issue firearm firing a rifle cartridge. Just as it was NOT particularly distinctive for a service rifle to have an en bloc clip feed at the beginning of WWII.
Besides, Garand wasn't copying the irreversible Mannlicher clip - he as copying the reversible Petersen clip.
Not as distinctive? How many other rifles had 30 round detachable magazines at the time these two rifles were developed? It was very distinctive to have a magazine of 30 rounds on a general issue firearm firing a rifle cartridge. Just as it was NOT particularly distinctive for a service rifle to have an en bloc clip feed at the beginning of WWII.
Besides, Garand wasn't copying the irreversible Mannlicher clip - he as copying the reversible Petersen clip.
I said that the roots of the Garand also lie with the Austrian rifle, which they simply do. It is you who sounds like a guy who made it big in the Big Apple, who wears a cashmere coat and is driven around in a sixteen cylinder Cadillac, while being kind of ashamed that his grandfather lives half-across the globe in a small village near the Danube in nowhere near as fancy mansionDoctor Dingleberry said:Hey, you're the one that started the Firearm Genealogy bull**** - can't help that I'm better at it than you are.
As for how many rifles or firearms had 30 round detachable magazines at the time AK or MP were developped? Well, if the key feature is a detachable magazine, then one can name BAR, M1 Carbine or FG-42 as far as the most famous ones are concerned. Add in the G43 chambered for Kurz, if you like the 30 number (or the post war M1 Carbine, further suggesting that it is 'merely' about making the mag bigger and not any distinctive engineering characteristic). If you want the magazine to be curved and 30 and rifle, one can also mention the ZGB33 / BREN
This is, of course, nowhere near as distinctive as the Garand's enblocs as there were tons and tons of firearms using detachable box magazines, wherease there were not that many firearms using enblocs. That being said, I don't think a claim that "MP-44 is the grandfather of the AK" can be rejected either. Which is why I was very interested in you producing the said UN Memorandum that would confirm that the genealogy is about the operating system and is not about the feed system. I would be all too happy to see you being better at it than I am but so far you keep failing to identify it
Doctor Dingleberry said:
BenKenobi said:Someone invents the thing, the other guy copies the idea and makes the clip symmetrical. The third guy takes the symmetrical clip. No, no, the first guy had no role in it whatsoever
No, you claimed grandparentage. You didn't say "Hey, look how far that Mannlicher feed system got - it made it into the M1." Because I agree completely with that.BenKenobi said:I said that the roots of the Garand also lie with the Austrian rifle, which they simply do. It is you who sounds like a guy who made it big in the Big Apple, who wears a cashmere coat and is driven around in a sixteen cylinder Cadillac, while being kind of ashamed that his grandfather lives half-across the globe in a small village near the Danube in nowhere near as fancy mansion
*snip*
If I'm the guy in the Cadillac, you the guy back in Hungary who's too stubborn to admit that he wishes he'd left for NY instead of staying behind to cultivate the fine culinary qualities of turnips - so he never fails to mention, to everyone, that it was his idea, not mine, to go to NY.
The answer to the rest of your post is in your own post (and mine, for that matter). Operating system, not feed system.
The BREN isn't a rifle, it's a machine gun. Of your other examples, only the late M2 Carbine MIGHT apply - but was developed in '44, after the Stg-44. Of the rest, 20 rounds or less is max. The G43 in Kurz doesn't count, because it uses STG-44 mags, so it's clearly developed after the StG was.
Which leaves me with my original statement; the StG set a new standard for the standard infantry weapon - a standard that nigh-all rifles have upheld since. At the time, it was first mover. It was unique. It was distinctive as hell. Even if it was just extending a mag, much like how an en bloc was just leaving the stripper clip in the rifle.
So,
A) The StG is the grandfather of all 30-rounder-magazine-using personal rifles, and the Mannlicher is the grandfather of every weapon that happened to use an en bloc feed system, or;
B) The Mannlicher is not the grandfather of every rifle with an en bloc feeding system, because the StG is not the grandfather of all weapons using 30 rounder mags, ever, even if "there were
Pick one.
As for the StG vs AK, the StG uses a long-stroke gas piston and a tilting bolt. The AK is a long-stroke gas piston rotating bolt. In this regard, the AK is more similar to the Garand.
Paronomasia12
Master Knight
Cor blimey man, I shared the video because I like seeing blackpowder repeaters not to rouse combativeness.
Dystopian
I'm not looking forward to the age where you have a blob of overhanging skin between your eyebrows 
Doctor Dingleberry said:No, you claimed grandparentage. You didn't say "Hey, look how far that Mannlicher feed system got - it made it into the M1." Because I agree completely with that.BenKenobi said:I said that the roots of the Garand also lie with the Austrian rifle, which they simply do. It is you who sounds like a guy who made it big in the Big Apple, who wears a cashmere coat and is driven around in a sixteen cylinder Cadillac, while being kind of ashamed that his grandfather lives half-across the globe in a small village near the Danube in nowhere near as fancy mansion
*snip*
This again brings me to the UN MemorandumDoctor Dingleberry said:
A)
