SP Fantasy (Game of Thrones) A Clash of Kings (7.0 released 13th of May, 2019)

[kevinflemming]

North with shieldless "spear" and a rather weak armor are clearly no match for any other faction especially ranged weapons.
imho in battle they should have a shield like those 2 guards.
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/770/starkshield.jpg

That's why I've edited The North in Morgh's. I've restarted around three times in the past couple of days, due to them getting completely stomped by everybody they're at war with. Last game, it was less than six months and they lost most of their main places.

The Archer tree is a bit messed-up too. The Northern Elite Archer has far less Power Draw than Veteran (Vet had 5 or 6, Elite had 2 or 3) and throughout they all have those terrible Short Bows. So I increased the PD skill by two from Archer-to-Elite each upgrade. Gave them a little more health, to compensate for poor gear. The Veteran and Elite archers have better bows and arrows, Longbow then Decorated Longbow, Heavy Arrows then Piercing. It might sound overpowered (and I'm not even sure auto-calc will take into account the changes) but they seem to be holding their own a little better. Whether that is just luck, or my changes have made a difference. Who knows?

I feel better for doing this anyway, so that's all that matters in the end.

EDIT: Looking at the Northern Spearman in Morgh's, they actually do have a Kite Shield, but most of the spears are tagged as "(No Shield)" which is probably why they don't use it. The best "spear" to use with a shield appears to be the Tourney Lance, number 28 on the item list. 35p, 96 speed, 150 reach. Not too over-the-top to act as a decent Infantry spear for the Northern Spearman.

 

[Drakken]

I am not looking for an absolute balance, i have no problem with short bows, the northern bow look short in the serie.
http://www.medievalists.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Game-of-Thrones-21.jpg
But yes, the elite / Vet is more a bug.

More northerner with spears & shields btw.
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/game-of-thrones3.jpg
So the northern spearmen with no shield should be changed imho.

Also the OOB we have in this mod is not really a northern OOB but a stark OOB.
Another tree would be nice but this is more work for Cozur ^^
and i am not even sure if this is even possible but the northern recruits should have another evolution path "miscellaneous northerner" melee infantry, kind of Northumbrian soldiers. Seax, axe, 1 javelin and shield.

 

[hasret401]

Very good mod.

 

[kevinflemming]

http://www.medievalists.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Game-of-Thrones-21.jpg

Those would be more like Recurve, looking at the style and shape. And provided every Northern Bowman (in the lore) used that style. But they look sweet regardless. I'm using one myself. While they deal less damage, the accuracy and speed is more than sufficient to make up for that. I might change them to use Recurve at Vet and Elite then lower their PD slightly. It's a shame the Flatbows aren't actually flat, as they would be (see random "flatbow" Google image search lol). It's more like a standard Longbow. Recurve will have to suffice.

More northerner with spears & shields btw.
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/game-of-thrones3.jpg
So the northern spearmen with no shield should be changed imho.

Well, those shields (according to the text in-game, I actually know nothing about GoT myself lol) are related to soldiers who have received training at Winterfell. So a potential idea would be to have Stark Spearmen (with a "spear" and Stark shields, half-decent armour setup) and make them available to be recruited as a special unit, similar to the White Harbour Knights, for example.

Also the OOB we have in this mod is not really a northern OOB but a stark OOB.

Sorry, I'm most likely being a bit dense here but what is an OOB?

Another tree would be nice but this is more work for Cozur ^^
and i am not even sure if this is even possible but the northern recruits should have another evolution path "miscellaneous northerner" melee infantry, kind of Northumbrian soldiers. Seax, axe, 1 javelin and shield.

Adding another tree doesn't take very long to accomplish. You can copy/paste a troop then edit their stats and gear using Morgh's. Pretty sure that's how everybody does it.

You could add that troop line quite easily. The Northern Levy only has one upgrade path (to Billman), so there is an empty space for another path. Each troop has a possible two routes they can upgrade to. It's just a case of adding some more troops at the bottom of the list and linking the corresponding upgrade path to each of them. Although, I've noticed there are over 3,000 troops (most of which aren't used) so it would be simpler to edit one of the "I2_etc.." troops and link the second upgrade path to it.

That's a cool idea, making a "Northmen" path with a Saxon-feel to them. Pretty sure there are Seax-style weapons somewhere in the list. I don't know if it clashes with lore and such, but still sounds good. Something I might have a play around with later, actually.

 

[Grank]

I'm still not sure about this whole shield+spear spearmen thing. The way they work in the mod, the awkward native animation and light spear breaking mechanics just don't convince me. I wish Cozur would use those polearm animations that are used in Gekkokujo. They work so well for two handed spears that I wouldn't mind Northern spearmen having no shields.

 

[Drakken]

On the wiki they are comparing umber with Northumbria and i like the idea.

OOB for order of battle, sorry about that, this is my bad habit from "Steel Panthers." 

 

[kevinflemming]

I'm still not...
...having no shields.

That's why I gave them the number 28 item 'Tourney Lance' which is more like a standard spear, rather than a lance.

Not too sure on what Gekokoju's spear animation is like. While I have played the mod, I can't say I've looked at the animations properly or used a spear myself. Tend to stick with the Tachi. But I do agree, the Native animations aren't very good but they serve a purpose for the time being. Perhaps a change is something already on the planned list.

The Last Days has some nice weapon animations too, especially for Two-Handed Sword.

OOB for order of battle, sorry about that, this is my bad habit from "Steel Panthers." 

Oh, I get it now. Had to Google it, as I'm not very informed on military jargon. Didn't even know what "order of battle" was. Mystery solved.

You should have a play with Morgh's, Drakken. See what you come up with. Once you start editing, it's hard not to. Every mod, I find something that would feel better tweaked, or changed completely. Good thing is, provided you don't give troops Godly stats or gear, the balance isn't affected too much. And it makes the module feel a little more personal to you, even with small changes. Some boots here, a sword there. Majority of the time, I change a troop's items purely for aesthetic purposes.

 

[viperswhip]

Every patch I make a character with 10 training, and I give my companions 10 training, and I grab one of every troop, turtle in White Harbour and note their stats and gear at each level. Right now, the Westerlands Knights are the only faction getting a plate armored Warhorse at max level, the Vale, Reach and Dragonstone get chain. I think the functional difference is minimal, but there are things like that in the game, it's easy to see why the Westerlands are able to win v. 4 factions because their troops have better equipment. And while that might have been true v. the North, I think the troops from the Vale and Reach are probably just as well equipped. Dragonstone might run second place in that regard. I also think the Riverlands troops probably would match up well with Dragonstone.

The North, the Sisters and the Ironborn should be about equivalent. Dorne is in a weird place, as I think they'd be more effective in the books that this game engine allows for. I guess that's why they upgrade to horse skirmishers, which are a pain in the butt for a largely infantry based army.

All in all though, the present balance is fine for me, with the exception of Veteran Sellsword Halberdiers.

 

[ozza]

Every patch I make a character with 10 training, and I give my companions 10 training, and I grab one of every troop, turtle in White Harbour and note their stats and gear at each level. Right now, the Westerlands Knights are the only faction getting a plate armored Warhorse at max level, the Vale, Reach and Dragonstone get chain. I think the functional difference is minimal, but there are things like that in the game, it's easy to see why the Westerlands are able to win v. 4 factions because their troops have better equipment. And while that might have been true v. the North, I think the troops from the Vale and Reach are probably just as well equipped. Dragonstone might run second place in that regard. I also think the Riverlands troops probably would match up well with Dragonstone.

The North, the Sisters and the Ironborn should be about equivalent. Dorne is in a weird place, as I think they'd be more effective in the books that this game engine allows for. I guess that's why they upgrade to horse skirmishers, which are a pain in the butt for a largely infantry based army.

All in all though, the present balance is fine for me, with the exception of Veteran Sellsword Halberdiers.

Those veteran sellsword halberdiers are the bane of my life it makes essos so bloody boring especially when the dothraki seem to get wiped out instantly unless you become a vassel for them it's the main reason reason I've moved onto asoiaf it's sheer amount of different troops but when the new patch for this comes out with essos troops I will move back to this I think not too keen on the moral system in asoiaf

 

[viperswhip]

Those veteran sellsword halberdiers are the bane of my life it makes essos so bloody boring especially when the dothraki seem to get wiped out instantly unless you become a vassel for them it's the main reason reason I've moved onto asoiaf it's sheer amount of different troops but when the new patch for this comes out with essos troops I will move back to this I think not too keen on the moral system in asoiaf

Really? I guess in 1/5 games I see that, normally I am able to snipe Volantis and maybe one other city before they get taken by the Dothraki. My normal strategy is to level as a vassal of Lys by fighting Ironborn and Wildlings in the North while building relations by freeing every nice/honourable lord out of prison I run across while running around looking for companions and buying businesses. I take a break to become a vassal of Dorne so I can marry...umm...Lady Blackwood? I am at work.

Then I leave Lys' service, grab Tyrosh, and normally have 30 or so days to get back into fighting shape for taking Volantis. Maybe if you are quicker you can grab a Dothraki city. They are totally useless in sieges, but every time I try to take one of their cities they saunter out with 400 horsebacked skirimishers, which I have yet to find a way to properly fight against.

 

[Grank]

Not too sure on what Gekokoju's spear animation is like. While I have played the mod, I can't say I've looked at the animations properly or used a spear myself.

Basically they have overhead thrust, so it enables more variation of effective attacks and the overhead thrust can work in shorter range than regular thrust, so spearmen actually pack a punch especially in number. There's a Rome themed mod (forgot which one) that has this overhead animation for one handed spears, so it can work with a shield.

 

[Wyzilla]

Haven't been paying much attention to development- is anything going to be done in 2.1 though to combat the fairly overpowered nature of cavalry? The AI never uses formations properly, or their glaives/polearms for that matter, and instead spawn and exclusively use their swords. Because of this I just end up recruiting a bunch of Knights and curbstomp everybody on the field.

 

[Kjertesvein]

First of all, love the mod. The amount of detail and dedication put in is amazing and awe inspiring. I just have a few things that bother me in regards to sieges and castles. This particularly hit me when I was assaulting Lannisport.  I have noticed some castles and towns have the ladders go up to the wall and then you have to fall a short way to the battlements to fight the defenders. The battlements at Lannisport are so small that the defenders simply piled at the place where the ladder was and when my men tried to gain a foothold they could not land on solid ground so they just perpetually "floated" on the defefending garrisons heads. This allowed the defenders to strike my men and kill them whilst my men could not attack back causing a massacre of floating soldiers. Another thing is I have noticed many invisible walls on battlements in castles when there is not even a stick fence there to prevent me from dropping down and attacking the defenders from the rear. I also ran into this a Lannisport.  It is a little immersion breaking. While I was still able to conquer it, I had to resort to exhausting gamey tqctics to make it to work. I love the mod but just think these little quirks would make it better and more user friendly.  Thanks and keep up the good work!

A couple of tips when you're reporting bugs:

If you're going to report bugs, I highly suggest that you have to assume the person fixing the problem do no know anything about what you are talking about. They do not sit with the experience you have, and to find it may take more time than it's worth. Some times people report bugs, that actually turn out to be glitch ( one time occurrence, or low probability of reoccurring). If you really want fix the problems, then you have be very specific, split each problem into individual reports, create steps in order for the developer to reproduce the bug, any supplementary pictures with graphics pointing to the problem helps a lot.

One tip is to read around this post as it helps you see the perspective of someone who does this professionally: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/9678638015

~Wille

 

[viperswhip]

Haven't been paying much attention to development- is anything going to be done in 2.1 though to combat the fairly overpowered nature of cavalry? The AI never uses formations properly, or their glaives/polearms for that matter, and instead spawn and exclusively use their swords. Because of this I just end up recruiting a bunch of Knights and curbstomp everybody on the field.

You could, you know, not do that.

 

[Wyzilla]

Haven't been paying much attention to development- is anything going to be done in 2.1 though to combat the fairly overpowered nature of cavalry? The AI never uses formations properly, or their glaives/polearms for that matter, and instead spawn and exclusively use their swords. Because of this I just end up recruiting a bunch of Knights and curbstomp everybody on the field.

You could, you know, not do that.

I shouldn't have to actively gimp myself because the AI doesn't even use the weapons they're given. Especially when they don't do it for me either, meaning I'll just my ass kicked by the enemy cavalry.

I know 1257ad somewhat fixed this issue by removing all weapons of those units besides the glaives/scythes, although in turn it means they get butchered by swordsmen.

 

[viperswhip]

Haven't been paying much attention to development- is anything going to be done in 2.1 though to combat the fairly overpowered nature of cavalry? The AI never uses formations properly, or their glaives/polearms for that matter, and instead spawn and exclusively use their swords. Because of this I just end up recruiting a bunch of Knights and curbstomp everybody on the field.

You could, you know, not do that.

I shouldn't have to actively gimp myself because the AI doesn't even use the weapons they're given. Especially when they don't do it for me either, meaning I'll just my ass kicked by the enemy cavalry.

I know 1257ad somewhat fixed this issue by removing all weapons of those units besides the glaives/scythes, although in turn it means they get butchered by swordsmen.

Yes, but as you said, it's the AI that has problems with Cavalry charges, not you, because you can use formations and get your troops into a shield wall, or tell them to brace their spears and such. I don't have problems with enemy Cavalary and often for the majority of the game my only cavalary are my companions, of course, I cheese a bit by running the enemy cav in a loop whilst my archers blow them to hell. But if I have the right infantry, cavalry are not a problem for a seasoned player.

Tweaking the AI is not something I expect Cozur to do, this is a game problem.

 

[Grank]

Actually I like the AI in this mod. They tend to stick in groups rather than scatter all over the place when fighting like in Native. I also never had trouble fighting cavalry unless when I'm totally outnumbered by them, like in that disastrous campaign against the Reach... *shivers*

 

[Cozur]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/a-clash-of-kings/downloads/a-clash-of-kings-21

 

[Modder223]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/a-clash-of-kings/downloads/a-clash-of-kings-21

That countdown though....

 

[Lyoshcka]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/a-clash-of-kings/downloads/a-clash-of-kings-21

You would do low resolution version for 2.1? What are system requirements for this version?