SP - Battles & Sieges Does anyone else think spears are utterly useless?

[Gremgoblin]

On a side note to anyone who says spears are good against cav. You will lie to me right now but I have never ever seen infantry fair well against cav with spears. 50 spearmen vs 50 cav lose to the cav consistently

I think that's because, at the moment, in Bannerlord (and in Warband previously) cav is and has always been a force multiplier. It's like a 2x stronger unit just by giving it a horse. Spears are even more useless than other weapons for cav for some reason, when really the spear was more or less the superior weapon in almost all cases. I can't really think of a situation in which I might not want to have a spear, but in this game, I can't think of a single situation in which I'd want to have a spear.

 

[Veli-Matti]

That's because spears are meant to be used en masse, like you say, when the enemy makes a circle, or a shield wall with spears? A cav charge gets stopped dead in its tracks

One on one though? They're useless, there is a reason spear formations were exactly that...formations (the phalanx for example) a single soldier can't do much

Biggest bunch of bull**** in your comment. If you really want to use historical accuracy then spears were far from useless in 1vs1, the reason it was used in formations is because formations even elevated the efficiency of the spear since it provided the range and ability to ''snipe'' enemies of the opposing formation who weren't directly in front of you. The spear wielding AI also aren't as effective against cavalry as you'd think in the game, did you actually try it out?

The reason the spear is so useless now is because of constant complaints from multiplayer beta testers who seem to have a disdain for the spear for some reason, even though I've personally never had a problem killing ANY player using a spear and the only time it really shined is when someone used it when backing up another teammate while staying behind. The only spears I've seen that could potentially be considered OP is the hybrid spears who could also be used as javelins or javelins which could be used as spears, one of the Khuzait spears comes to mind here.

Some people even used the excuse that the spear is ''boring'' (yes I'm serious, I've personally seen it in the beta) therefore it shouldn't be a good weapon.

 

[artdayne]

Spears are amazing historically for a few reasons.

1. Takes very little training, almost anyone can learn to use it and be pretty proficient with it.
2. No weapon should have a reach advantage against it.
3. can stab at any part of the body quickly so it's difficult to defend against.
4. Can still be effective in close range by simply shortening up on the shaft

The last one, the game simply doesn't have this as an option currently though it could be programmed in by giving it an alternate weapon mode by pressing x and making the spear a lot shorter, it is something that Mordhau has as an example. If you sped up the stabs by a decent amount it would make it a lot more powerful and difficult to defend but when speaking of realism you also have to consider this is a game and 100% realism isn't always what is most fun, the game already does a pretty fantastic job achieving the realism/fun balance.

 

[enemy_man]

Spears in Bannerlord doesn't even closely resemble spears in real life because of the limitations in the combat mechanics. You only have two types of stabs that are very suspectible to glancing of the opponent. This makes the spear very clumsy to use, especially in 1v1 situations because the opponent can simply block your thrusts while moving forward and then you are too close to do effective damage. In real life a spear would be much harder to parry because you can stab at any point and even just holding the spearpoint towards the opponent makes it dangerous for him to approach.

You can still make the spear work in Bannerlord by using shield bashes and footwork etc. so it is still strong in the hands of a player. The damage for spears is actually very good assuming you can get a decent hit in. This unfortunately doesn't apply to the AI and they will just keep spamming ineffective stabs that glance of opponents and allies alike unless they get lucky.

As a side note I think its incredibly silly that the AI never use spears against infantry even when in formation. The spear should be the main weapon for most infantry units but right now they just keep them on their backs and use other weapons instead. The fact that they also get destroyed by cavalry is hilarious. Why even have spears for infantry to begin with?

 

[Niomedes]

To anyone saying that spears doing less damage than swords is realistic: No.

Spears are easier to use, that is true. But they're absolutely deadly is usedcorrectly. Do you guys seriously suppose that getting an iron-tipped pole shoved into your lower abdomen with not only the strength, but also the full weight of its wielder behind it is any less deadly than being struck by a sword that is delivered with just the strength of the man holding it to the left of your torso ? No, it is not.

In fact, spears are the superior weapon lethality wise, and the only reason swords can deliver better results (Which they sometimes may not even do as they require higher skills) is their higher skill ceiling, adaptability and maneuverability. Against a human opponent, you may sometimes need more options than just stabbing, since that's somewhat straight forward and easy to avoid. Against large animals which do not have the abilility to fight in a complex way, spears remain the most effective close range weapon to this day due to their sheer damage potential.

As such, OP is completely right: Spears need to do far more damage. Double what they currently do may still be too weak.

 

[kekkuli5]

That's because spears are meant to be used en masse, like you say, when the enemy makes a circle, or a shield wall with spears? A cav charge gets stopped dead in its tracks

One on one though? They're useless, there is a reason spear formations were exactly that...formations (the phalanx for example) a single soldier can't do much

Expect spear is one of the best weapons in one on one realistically. Though the phalanx you refer to used sarissa which was something like 4-5 meters long and wouldn't be very good in a duel.

 

[Aho]

I have to spy I'm using spears even more than I did when I was playing Warband.

-They are more satisfying to use
-They actually do damage
-Don't have to launch Viking Conquest to do a overhead stab

Man, just getting that perfect head stab with a spear is orgasmic.

As such, OP is completely right: Spears need to do far more damage. Double what they currently do may still be too weak.

What? I was thinking how stronger the spears are. I will think about it the next time I play.

 

[CXZAR]

I have though the same since warband, spears in these games are slow, clunky and most of the times, pointless.

1. In bannerlord, the AI should use them more frequently, even against infantry and they don't.
2. A spear is a fast paced weapon, that doesn't happen here or in bannerlord even if you have high proficiency with it (stat wise)

I could understand not raising it's damage but balance purpose, but they really need an increment in the speed of it, it needs to be more agile (for the player and the AI), I haven't played that much Online, because of my location and ping, but in singleplayer I had my hopes up and running when I started playing bannerlord... Until I used them on foot and when I have to use one in a tournament, I feel dissapointed, even so, is one of my favourite weapons because of what it can offer in any type of battle, even though that in this case (current state of Bannerlord) it doesn't.

In my humble opinion, this is a weapon that should be easy to use and a weapon that should be afraid of, specially agaisnt large groups... The speed (and some damage as well, specially to the head) should be increased vastly.

 

[Aho]

I have though the same since warband, spears in these games are slow, clunky and most of the times, pointless.

1. In bannerlord, the AI should use them more frequently, even against infantry and they don't.
2. A spear is a fast paced weapon, that doesn't happen here or in bannerlord even if you have high proficiency with it (stat wise)

I could understand not raising it's damage but balance purpose, but they really need an increment in the speed of it, it needs to be more agile (for the player and the AI), I haven't played that much Online, because of my location and ping, but in singleplayer I had my hopes up and running when I started playing bannerlord... Until I used them on foot and when I have to use one in a tournament, I feel dissapointed, even so, is one of my favourite weapons because of what it can offer in any type of battle, even though that in this case (current state of Bannerlord) it doesn't.

In my humble opinion, this is a weapon that should be easy to use and a weapon that should be afraid of, specially agaisnt large groups... The speed (and some damage as well, specially to the head) should be increased vastly.

Don't you just have every infantry going around with a spear on their back, looking like dumb-asses? Basic guys should always use their spear. It would be more immersive and spear is a weapon of war, probably it would be more usefull. Anyways, how can some smelly peasant afford a sword? Did everybody get a sword from their father when they died in battle lol?

 

[Marcery]

I’m having a lot of success with spears and spear infantry, of course if I have 40 spear infantry and they have 40 heavy Calvary I’m going to lose but that’s expected. If I outnumber the Calvary by 15 or more spears it’s always an easy win and they get massacred. Using spears in sieges is also really effective for me. I have a long spear (172 length) so I’m a bit behind the front line and can stab into enemies at the front. Spears are definitely a lot better here than they were in Warband. It’s a video game, weapons need to be balanced, if they buffed spears they’d be absolutely broken

 

[CXZAR]

Don't you just have every infantry going around with a spear on their back, looking like dumb-asses? Basic guys should always use their spear. It would be more immersive and spear is a weapon of war, probably it would be more usefull. Anyways, how can some smelly peasant afford a sword? Did everybody get a sword from their father when they died in battle lol?

Exactly!! You can see it first hand during the raider hideout raid on the last part of the tutorial. The first time I had my 6 man group, formed them on a shield wall...just to see that fence of sticks hanging on their back, I was like WTF?!


I was expecting something like this, but of course, that didn't happen.

 

[VanHoven]

I agree, something isn't right.

They keep an enemy at bay, but in this game a successful strike with them doesn't stagger people back far enough. If it did, careful use of a spear could keep a single enemy away from you. If you screw up and they close, then fine you die. But the stagger back needs to be fixed.

Plus damage by it should be increased on a successful head strike.

spears beat swords

I'd really like to mod in a much greater stagger caused by spears on successful hits... but I'm at a loss right now as to where such stats would be located.

LINDYBEIGE <3

 

[Vattghern]

Classic ... Go to the multiplayer forum, the guys that live there will say that spear is op

 

[Demoulius]

Spears are only OP if you run into them with your cav like a scrub and get 1-shotted

Most classes that have the option for a spear or javelins I take it because I love both weapons dearly. But the spear wins out because I cant **** with the javelins in multiplayer....

It makes dealing with cav feasible and not all cav players expect it or they just play in a very suicidal manner... Also it gives me more options once I manage to burrow someones horse

Semantics aside. Does anyone have an idea WHY the spears do so little damage at the moment? Have their damage numbers been brought down or isent the damage system working properly? Shouldnt piercing weapons bypass a certain amount of armor? Maybe theyre not doing that atm or something....

 

[Razorts]

Spears are only OP if you run into them with your cav like a scrub and get 1-shotted

Most classes that have the option for a spear or javelins I take it because I love both weapons dearly. But the spear wins out because I cant **** with the javelins in multiplayer....

It makes dealing with cav feasible and not all cav players expect it or they just play in a very suicidal manner... Also it gives me more options once I manage to burrow someones horse

Semantics aside. Does anyone have an idea WHY the spears do so little damage at the moment? Have their damage numbers been brought down or isent the damage system working properly? Shouldnt piercing weapons bypass a certain amount of armor? Maybe theyre not doing that atm or something....

piercing type do bypass some armor while numbers seem low if you hit enemy properly damage should be comparable or even higher to cutting, problem is you are very limited with your angles of attack, shield can block it very easy, have to watch your footwork way more

 

[Demoulius]

It seems to me that the damage triangle from warband is completly lost or just not working (I mean cutting better vs low armor, piercing beats alot of armor and blunt beats the most armor but does less to low armor when I say damage triangle)

In MP my cutting weapons seem to effect heavily armoured enemies just fine for example. I only very rarely see any decent amount of damage absorbtion. Blunt weapons I dont think ive seen anyone use now that I think about it and spears are completely borked at the moment with regards to their damage output.

Back in warband I often had to resort to different weapons or modes of attack when I ran into enemies with high armor but so far I never had to do that even once in bannerlord...

 

[zMasterofPie]

Yeah after playing Viking Conquest I was really looking forward to spears in this game, since in VC they are actually usable and in MANY circumstances even better than swords, e.g. against heavy armor or on horseback.

But in this game the main problems I see are that they are too slow, and not enough stagger. If you keep distance and get a good hit they are powerful but getting a good hit is hard af because of how slow they are, and like enemy_man said they can just block while moving forward and then you are done.

I think instead of buffing spear damage, simply make armor more important so that thrusts get past a lot of armor and cuts do not. (also while increasing speed and stagger)

 

[Demoulius]

The upward thrust is simply glorious though, lest we forget it. Nothing like having an enemy block with a shield and stabbing OVER his shield and into his face. Bloody amazing when it works out

 

[TrashMan]

Does thrusting even stagger/push your target back?

also, methinks you could be able to use a spear like a quaterstaff, delaing blunt dmage with side swipes

 

[Decimus Drake]

I was so disappointed with the spear weapons. My first encounter with looters: charge in on horseback stabbing one of them through the face. They're fine. They attack like nothing happened.

I think combat could do with more of a rework, not just changing the numbers. For example, being able to brace with a spear against a cavalry charge rather than having to carefully time a thrust would make a huge difference. Having a system where you can fight just as well with 1hp as you can with full hp hurts the spear more so than other weapons as the additional reach very quickly goes from being an advantage to a liability.

I wonder if the issue of weak spears stems from a form of cultural bias? When I think about the treatment spears get in RPGs like D&D and Pathfinder the problem of their relative underpoweredness isn't limited to M&B.