Do YOU want crush through on all 2h weapons in MP?

[Aprikosenmann]

Like i said, it's hard to make the competitive meta fun when clans simply roll over pubs in the queue. Unless custom servers are given for proper tournaments, i don't see this happening anytime. In the video shown the competitive players has their own servers etc to make enough games to see how things feel. But in bannerlord we don't

We need MMR MATCHMAKING.
But we need to deny stacks. Only enter alone. That way we would have enough players to balance the matches.
There is no other way.
You cant tell me that new players enjoy meeting a stack every second game. They must be quitting. We could match them against equal players.
When we enable stacks there would not be enough players.

 

[Younes]

We need MMR MATCHMAKING.
But we need to deny stacks. Only enter alone. That way we would have enough players to balance the matches.
There is no other way.
You cant tell me that new players enjoy meeting a stack every second game. They must be quitting. We could match them against equal players.
When we enable stacks there would not be enough players.

I myself 99% of the time go solo, and from my experience a lot of new players i met in my team just said **** it and stopped playing bannerlord MP as a whole because of this stupid stacking of clans.

I think i said it before but i'm not sure. There should be a different badge only for solo queue players, because when i see someone with 750 wins and their clan tags, i know for a fact they just farmed pubs in the queue and rolled over them each time. I have played for a while solo queue now and i have come to the point i just leave whenever i see a 4+ clan party in the other team. When it's my team i just give up on playing and just troll around because it's just unfair.

 

[Indi4N]

I myself 99% of the time go solo, and from my experience a lot of new players i met in my team just said **** it and stopped playing bannerlord MP as a whole because of this stupid stacking of clans.

I think i said it before but i'm not sure. There should be a different badge only for solo queue players, because when i see someone with 750 wins and their clan tags, i know for a fact they just farmed pubs in the queue and rolled over them each time. I have played for a while solo queue now and i have come to the point i just leave whenever i see a 4+ clan party in the other team. When it's my team i just give up on playing and just troll around because it's just unfair.

That's why custom servers are needed ASAP

 

[Aprikosenmann]

I myself 99% of the time go solo, and from my experience a lot of new players i met in my team just said **** it and stopped playing bannerlord MP as a whole because of this stupid stacking of clans.

I think i said it before but i'm not sure. There should be a different badge only for solo queue players, because when i see someone with 750 wins and their clan tags, i know for a fact they just farmed pubs in the queue and rolled over them each time. I have played for a while solo queue now and i have come to the point i just leave whenever i see a 4+ clan party in the other team. When it's my team i just give up on playing and just troll around because it's just unfair.

Skirmish will only be succesfull as Esport and accepted by the community if the majority has fun with it. Fair teams are the most important thing.
We need Solo Matchmaking Skirmish ASAP.

Has it high priority? @NIN3 @AVRC

 

[Alyss]

Skirmish will be successful as an Esport when it become a good gamemode. Denying stacks would just kill clans even more.

 

[Mabons]

Skirmish will be successful as an Esport when it become a good gamemode. Denying stacks would just kill clans even more.

Stacks can play vs other stacks they don’t need to stomp pubs. No one learns anything from that. Purely solo matchmaking should be top priority for those of us who don’t want or care about clan matches but still want a fair and challenging game to play.

 

[Alyss]

Stacks can play vs other stacks they don’t need to stomp pubs. No one learns anything from that. Purely solo matchmaking should be top priority for those of us who don’t want or care about clan matches but still want a fair and challenging game to play.

I mean, some people queue together just because they wanna play with friends? I only have a bit of fun on BL when playing with friends. If they decide to remove parties then many players in my case will stop.

 

[Zoonanay]

I imagine there'll be a SBMM single queue and a Casual Skirmish which allows queues up to 6, hell could even have it so you can party up to 12 but some will be split across both teams.

I don't see playing with friends at a high/competitive level as possible outside clan matches and organised events. Unless MP gets 10000 more active players there won't be enough players to fill the full party of friends/high level game niche, on the short notice of a press of the queue button, like say LoL, Dota, CS:GO or Valorant can.

If you solo queue, just focus on your gameplay and ignore outcomes. The game is poorly balanced and the queue system is whack, if you get caught up on win/loss you're effectively guaranteed to end up bitter and annoyed.

And if you queue as a group, try not to just pubstomp, you'll find yourself bored after 3 games and I can't imagine your opponents had a thrilling time either. Live a little, pick peasant with a pitchfork and try some stupid **** rather than just crush the sixth set of randoms you've encountered that evening.

 

[Kylbee]

Nothing about Bannerlord is the result of what the competitive M&B community has asked for. TW have their own vision for MP in Bannerlord, and a lot of it has disappointed both the competitive and non-competitive community. Some of what you complain about is the same as what beta testers complained about a very long time ago. The "rock-paper-scissors" situation might become worse with the soon-to-be implemented crushthrough feature for naked 2h barbarians, which I'm pretty sure no one in the community asked for.

I mean I don't know what kind of game they expect when there is no playerbase left who likes it. It's not doing its job to keep its current players interested, and it's certainly no attracting new players. Idk why they can't just admit they were wrong and fix it.

 

[Die Foodswaffe]

If a game is balanced and fun for the highest level of play, its balanced for every other level of play.


Here is an amazing video on the subject

This seems, awfully ideal. The take of the video that is. The is no guarantee that the balance will keep in mind the mid and low tier players and his assumption about the bell curve supposes that the "casual" high tier players are close to the level of esports pros, they are definitely not.The gap in skill between a "newbie"/upstart pro and a veteran pro is ,in most games, larger than the gap between the lowest tier players and upstarts pro. So when balancing for the competitive level you are balancing for the less than 1% of your playerbase. I do agree that, if the devs keep in mind that there casual players out there, and take into account their feedback as well when balancing, and they make smart choices, it might lead to a better experience.

My experience comes, however, from LoL, and you might think that since it's still growing all is good, but I know some 30 people that used to play, all having started before 2015. Since the full acquisition of Riot Games by Tencent in ''15, and even earlier since they already owned stocks there, there have been a focus on teamplay, decision making and team composition, with teams that can choose champions that synergise well with each other dominating even when the opposing team is on average better skill-wise.

The only people that could reliably use all the existing synergies, plays and counter-plays in a way that made me think the game was enjoyable, were those pro ones, at the tournaments and some of the guys in challenger and master tiers (tiers for essentially the want-to-be-pros, numbering a few hundred people out the millions of each server). For the rest of the community, trying to replicate what we saw in tournaments, was not feasible,we were usually complete strangers, with nowhere near the mechanics (speed and accuracy of move execution and ability -the champion's- casting), with much less knowledge about what to do when, how and why. End result, the game slowly moved away from what made it fun for me and those 30 people I mentioned. With every patch that focused more on teamplay, the potential contribution of the individuals was taken away, after a certain point, we were no longer able to infuence the outcome.

In a game where you are 1/5 people in you team and still being unable to change the outcome in most cases, is not fun, it's not to be replicated. And despite the success of the brand, I feel justified in that at least I'm right that the game used to be fun for us older players, but it changed and no longer was for us since we knew how it had been. Newer players, still find joy in it, because they don't have the experience of what it used to be, thus unable to make the comparison.

So I will always want to put the average player before the pro, and I feel it's easier since the game has at least some realism tied to it. My suggestions, seem to me, to be a compromise between realism and game restrictions and balance.

 

[Doctor_Noob]

As a guy who played overwatch, yeah we never even did half the **** the pros did and I was playing in tournments for like 5kish USD, we would use similar strats sometimes, but usually if we just found a slightly different meta we would usually do better then other groups trying to do pro moves even though they would be grand master or master and some of the top 500 players we beat just doing easier metas for noobs. But moves for pros don't work for noobs warband the game was to fun to be low good player, being able to block chamber, somewhat kick, feint etc. But not being able to be like the best players were so good that blocking and attacking usally just worked the best for them.

 

[Hans 77]

Considering the relatively fast swing speed of hammers (92 and 81) and their considerable length (104 and 105 -both lengths outranging most 1H weapons!), I'd argue against even hammers having overhand crush through.

Why? Because there's no way to implement it in a balanced way.

Please keep in mind the classes with access to these weapons are the fastest in the game, and Bannerlord's janky, floaty, omnidirectional movement mechanics will no doubt play into their favor. This will allow them to consistently out-range their opponent, staying at optimal overhead range and then simply ballerina or pirouette away (such a cool mechanic ) when their foe gets too close.

In Warband, crush through weapons were short and slow. This allowed for balanced gameplay. There was an avenue for counter-play if someone was bearing down on you with a great hammer.

>you could out-range them

>you could spam them on overhead

>you could chamber block them (Absent in Bannerlord!)



Unless Taleworlds is also going to alter the weapons as well -making them slower and shorter, what will the counter-play be?

 

[RDP]

This genre will never be an esport unless a loaded developer makes their own version and actually understands it like the ashes of creation dev, taleworlds is a joke and just got lucky with warband i feel.

 

[Sigaretovic]

First off I think 2h need to be slower and have poorer handling, because I've always wondered why all 2handers are moving like jedi warriors. If that gets nerfed, I'm ok that the heaviest 2h can crush through. Examples like maul, heavy axe and bardiche come to mind. I'm no weapons expert but anything 'lighter', for example menavlion shouldn't be able to crush through.

The reason that I do want these weapons to crush through is that to me it feels ridiculous that a person holding a 1h could totally block a heavy 2h weapon. But I don't think there would be any counter left except evading the blow. Deflecting isn't in the game isn't it?

I'm not sure how it would end up in the game so I'm going to wait until they implement this thing.

 

[ZeroCrack01]

RNG and cant be countered by 99% of things. Bad idea. This mechanic makes me stop playing at all. It doesnt have to aim for esport to be unfun. It is a bad idea for single player as well.

 

[Alyss]

Can a combat dev explain the reasoning behind the idea please. I haven’t tested it so I can’t judge it correctly, but I would like to know the reasoning of why they had the idea and what they think it will add to the game, but more importantly I would like to hear from them on why they think it’s a good idea. Maybe if they develop the idea I will understand the reason to add this mechanic.

 

[Brandis.]

Making the argument "bannerlord will never be an esport!" is really dumb. No one means 'esports' to mean selling out stadiums. We're using it to describe a game that would support a sizable competitive tournament scene that's interesting to watch as well as play in.

We need MMR MATCHMAKING.
But we need to deny stacks. Only enter alone. That way we would have enough players to balance the matches.
There is no other way.
You cant tell me that new players enjoy meeting a stack every second game. They must be quitting. We could match them against equal players.
When we enable stacks there would not be enough players.

Hard agree. New players leave in droves. But it also extends to average players: anyone I've talked to dislikes that they run into a stack that they're going to get rolled by every (like you said) second game. Then, they can either requeue and have a high chance of getting rolled by the stack again, or quit Skirmish.

You can guess what they pick.

Skirmish will be successful as an Esport when it become a good gamemode. Denying stacks would just kill clans even more.

The first part is very correct. I've complained about Skirmish since day 1, and most of my complaints were based on how gameplay would translate to both playing and spectating high level M&B. It doesn't do great at either of those currently.

The second part makes no sense. You can have MMR Matchmaking for solo (or duo???) players while keeping parties. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[Footbeard]

This has gone quite off-topic. My knee jerk reaction is a hard no because it adds another element of random to a skill? based game. It really depends on how the crushthrough is calculated. If it's based on a large discrepancy in weapon weight and can only be accessed via a charged overhead, I think it'd be fine.

Daggers in MP when? Also that projectile deflecting ability by switching block in MP when?

 

[FearSpear]

I mean, some people queue together just because they wanna play with friends? I only have a bit of fun on BL when playing with friends. If they decide to remove parties then many players in my case will stop.

Yeah really dont have motivation to play without having a friend in voice chat to laugh with. Mechanics not appealing. It's just a coincidence that all of my friends are elite bladers and this causes an unfair advantage, sad!

PS: You are acting like clans party together to stomp clans, when in reality it takes no more than 2 experienced warband players to make a 2v6 against these newcomers feel like an absolutely face-stomp for them.. even if the warband players have braindead pubs... Some of these rumored "clan stomping" just occurs when two random warbanders just happen to get on the same team

 

[Mabons]

For ****s sake, this is how I would envisage the matchmaking:

Ranked Solo Skirmish(Max 1 in party)
Normal Skirmish(Max 5 in party)
Team Skirmish(parties of 6 only)

If you want to play with buddies you can do so in normal matches where people don’t give a **** about winning or losing(how it is currently in fact). But I’d rather ranking was comprised of solo players alone.