Dev Blog 19/04/18

[parsehtml][IMG]https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_36_taleworldswebsite.jpg[/IMG] Medieval warfare was as brutal and terrifying as you might imagine. Soldiers fought for their lives in ferocious hand-to-hand combat using a variety of different weapons to protect themselves and defeat their opponents. Polearms, swords, maces and axes were used to devastating effect and anyone unlucky enough to be on the receiving end of a blow from one of these vicious weapons of war would certainly know about it. [/parsehtml]Read more at: https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/56

 

[NPC99]

You want them to code the AI to not be Heat Seeking Homing missiles? Goodbye large battles.... it was nice knowing you

Not necessarily. For an individual in stealth mode, it might be possible with code in BL to stop bots targeting him/her (shooting & charging) in the absence of a clear line of sight. I agree that extending such a hack to more than an exceptional individual would probably mess up the game’s battle AI.

It probably only needs to be done for the player.

 

[zabfalat]

Wow, I admire you guys. It was the simpliest, "weakest" dev blog, but you could still make it 14 pages long! 

Btw in 1v1 a dagger wasn't hopeless againts a sword in warband, at least in singleplayer. I won several times in a tournament, when i got the bow and dagger, and a foe came up to me. I just constantly stunned him with my attack speed, and he couldn even react.

Of course if i wasn't interrupted.

But yeah, I have never seen any of my soldiers swiching to a dagger in battle. The AI just didn't want to do that . It probably preferred weapons with better stats.

I always wanted to use them in some way, but I couldn't. I'm looking foraward to se what they did with that...

 

[SilenterS]

Hey Callum,

Will Taleworlds Entertainment be at E3 this year showcasing Bannerlord?

 

[Plebsi]

Please tell us how much Bannerlord is going to cost .. I need to know if I have to save up from now.

 

[SenorZorros]

on heavy armour, shield and dagger...
well, that was a viable tactic and such formation fighting (after all you need a disciplined shieldwall to move while not getting poked in the side) should be rewarded... I wouldn't mind short swords having a (lesser) ignore for armour either if that's the issue... It is a great defensive block but it's need for cohesion and pitiful range makes it pretty bad at offensive actions be it charging or chasing. Any attack would be a slow advance.

It's also still possible to counter for instance by using spears or swords which keep them at bay (as long as taleworlds enables us to actually keep our weapons in front of us to keep enemies at bay)
...
Taleworlds, please allow us to keep our weapons in front of us and do damage that way if enemies want to walk into them.
...
You can also go and use throwing weapons to disable the shields after which they are kinda screwed. Or hack in from range with axes. and the good old cavalry charge will be laughing as they trample the entire line their horses untouched by those meek points. It's far from an unbeatable army.
Team 2 can easily win by using overhead thrust to het over the shield wall and stab them while the opponents can't reach them and are unable to break ranks because then their protection would collapse...

Wow, I admire you guys. It was the simpliest, "weakest" dev blog, but you could still make it 14 pages long! 

Btw in 1v1 a dagger wasn't hopeless againts a sword in warband, at least in singleplayer. I won several times in a tournament, when i got the bow and dagger, and a foe came up to me. I just constantly stunned him with my attack speed, and he couldn even react.

Of course if i wasn't interrupted.

But yeah, I have never seen any of my soldiers swiching to a dagger in battle. The AI just didn't want to do that . It probably preferred weapons with better stats.

I always wanted to use them in some way, but I couldn't. I'm looking foraward to se what they did with that...

It's workable but tbh dagger fighting is quite boring and it would be good if they got some mechanics to get out the spammy. Maybe make the stun only affect the first time but give the users some tricks to quickly close the gap and pull back.

EDIT:
on stealth. a "fog of war" which would make people camouflaged/less conspicuous if they are far away, behave stealthy and you are in a noisy area might be a interesting feature but I think it's outside of the scope. straight invisibility/magic stealth probably isn't fun.

 

[zabfalat]

It's workable but tbh dagger fighting is quite boring and it would be good if they got some mechanics to get out the spammy. Maybe make the stun only affect the first time but give the users some tricks to quickly close the gap and pull back.

EDIT:
on stealth. a "fog of war" which would make people camouflaged/less conspicuous if they are far away, behave stealthy and you are in a noisy area might be a interesting feature but I think it's outside of the scope. straight invisibility/magic stealth probably isn't fun.

Yeah, I would stick with the idea, which is comeing from the reality, that has been already discussed above: Daggers are only for some special mission, where stealth is required, or only as a secondary, or third sidearm on the battlefield.

In terms of mount and blade mechanics, as I know it, daggers would be only used by weaker archers, and weaker (levy) spearmen, who only has a spear, shield, and dagger, as weapons.

The spearmen would only use the dagger if he is forced to tough, like in real life. Maybe on castle walls, where the fight is so close that a spear would be near useless (at least in warband it was, or hardly usable), or on battlefields, if he drops the spear, or it has been knocked out of his hand, so he doesn't have a better choice.
So it is not like for fun, but because you have to.

Of course if you have a choice, and money as a player, you bring the Spear as a secondary weapon beside swords, or at least you choose a more reasonable weapon insted. But Still!

It sounds realistic. A ,,knock out weapons, or larger weapons from your hand" mechanic? Like it was in the Game of Thrones mod (don't remember the name) with breaking lances.

 

[Drayva]

Will Bannerlord be released on console at the same time as the PC release? Or will there be a break between releases?

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

Armağan said several times the main focus on pc. So I don't think  pc release and consoles will be at the same time.

 

[Drayva]

Armağan said several times the main focus on pc. So I don't think  pc release and consoles will be at the same time.

Thank you! Now I know to focus on making my PC better 

 

[SenorZorros]

It's workable but tbh dagger fighting is quite boring and it would be good if they got some mechanics to get out the spammy. Maybe make the stun only affect the first time but give the users some tricks to quickly close the gap and pull back.

EDIT:
on stealth. a "fog of war" which would make people camouflaged/less conspicuous if they are far away, behave stealthy and you are in a noisy area might be a interesting feature but I think it's outside of the scope. straight invisibility/magic stealth probably isn't fun.

Yeah, I would stick with the idea, which is comeing from the reality, that has been already discussed above: Daggers are only for some special mission, where stealth is required, or only as a secondary, or third sidearm on the battlefield.

In terms of mount and blade mechanics, as I know it, daggers would be only used by weaker archers, and weaker (levy) spearmen, who only has a spear, shield, and dagger, as weapons.

The spearmen would only use the dagger if he is forced to tough, like in real life. Maybe on castle walls, where the fight is so close that a spear would be near useless (at least in warband it was, or hardly usable), or on battlefields, if he drops the spear, or it has been knocked out of his hand, so he doesn't have a better choice.
So it is not like for fun, but because you have to.

Of course if you have a choice, and money as a player, you bring the Spear as a secondary weapon beside swords, or at least you choose a more reasonable weapon insted. But Still!

It sounds realistic. A ,,knock out weapons, or larger weapons from your hand" mechanic? Like it was in the Game of Thrones mod (don't remember the name) with breaking lances.

Daggers would be used by literally everyone. not only were they easy to carry and dangerous. They also can be used while standing closed than a sword's minimum range which would be pretty much an arm's length. Many paintings of knights had them wear daggers to quickly draw for surprise attacks or to use when grappling.

 

[Rackie]

Btw in 1v1 a dagger wasn't hopeless againts a sword in warband, at least in singleplayer. I won several times in a tournament, when i got the bow and dagger, and a foe came up to me. I just constantly stunned him with my attack speed, and he couldn even react.

Of course if i wasn't interrupted.

Thats because the combat AI in warband is bad. Its not the the dagger was good.

 

[Rackie]

Thank you! Now I know to focus on making my PC better 

If you have a console, but not a enough good pc to run Bannerlord, i dont k ow what you are doing

 

[zabfalat]

It's workable but tbh dagger fighting is quite boring and it would be good if they got some mechanics to get out the spammy. Maybe make the stun only affect the first time but give the users some tricks to quickly close the gap and pull back.

EDIT:
on stealth. a "fog of war" which would make people camouflaged/less conspicuous if they are far away, behave stealthy and you are in a noisy area might be a interesting feature but I think it's outside of the scope. straight invisibility/magic stealth probably isn't fun.

Yeah, I would stick with the idea, which is comeing from the reality, that has been already discussed above: Daggers are only for some special mission, where stealth is required, or only as a secondary, or third sidearm on the battlefield.

In terms of mount and blade mechanics, as I know it, daggers would be only used by weaker archers, and weaker (levy) spearmen, who only has a spear, shield, and dagger, as weapons.

The spearmen would only use the dagger if he is forced to tough, like in real life. Maybe on castle walls, where the fight is so close that a spear would be near useless (at least in warband it was, or hardly usable), or on battlefields, if he drops the spear, or it has been knocked out of his hand, so he doesn't have a better choice.
So it is not like for fun, but because you have to.

Of course if you have a choice, and money as a player, you bring the Spear as a secondary weapon beside swords, or at least you choose a more reasonable weapon insted. But Still!

It sounds realistic. A ,,knock out weapons, or larger weapons from your hand" mechanic? Like it was in the Game of Thrones mod (don't remember the name) with breaking lances.

Daggers would be used by literally everyone. not only were they easy to carry and dangerous. They also can be used while standing closed than a sword's minimum range which would be pretty much an arm's length. Many paintings of knights had them wear daggers to quickly draw for surprise attacks or to use when grappling.

Are you talking about real life, or about bannerlord? Because in real life, yes, I totally agree. I have also seen them on paintings, and we have resources about it.

In bannerlord, idunno, but I haven't see any troops in the videos swiching to dagger, either if it was light, or heavy soilder. Theay had swords, maces, axes. But since then they could change it, probably, or the would not talk about it in a blog.

I don't remember, but have we seen fresh recruites, or levies in any battle videos? Maybe in sieges? I have to watch it again, I'd like to check them.

 

[zabfalat]

Btw in 1v1 a dagger wasn't hopeless againts a sword in warband, at least in singleplayer. I won several times in a tournament, when i got the bow and dagger, and a foe came up to me. I just constantly stunned him with my attack speed, and he couldn even react.

Of course if i wasn't interrupted.

Thats because the combat AI in warband is bad. Its not the the dagger was good.

Yes, you are right. I almost never played in multy, only in singleplayer.  But bannerlord is also has singleplayer, so we will see what the new combat AI can do with it.

Sooo, I assume it is different in multyplayer...? Concenring the posts above.

 

[lolbash]

Daggers would be used by literally everyone. not only were they easy to carry and dangerous. They also can be used while standing closed than a sword's minimum range which would be pretty much an arm's length. Many paintings of knights had them wear daggers to quickly draw for surprise attacks or to use when grappling.

We already established this a couple pages ago and agreed that this idea is stupid and won't fit with Bannerlord's combat at all.

Read my comment there on why this is stupid and wont work in Bannerlord.

No, because daggers in a medieval context are military greade weapons specifically designed for thrusting through gaps in armor and chainmail. They are not kitchen knives which are a household tool for cutting.

I know. And I asked how are you going to translate this into a fun gaming and combat expereince in the game. You answered "make it ignore armor". You're literally asking to make it so looters can have the ability to kill heavily armored armies.

No, I said that daggers were used to finish off heavily armored opponents and if you'd use them to actually fight they were a good way to get you killed. The second post was how I would implement DAGGERS (not kitchen knives) into the game.

And your idea is stupid, Let me quote it again

give them low base damage, no or almost no scaling with powerstrike and strength but full armor penetration. That way even INT or CHA builds could contribute to a battle by going after high value targets like the enemy lord or elite troops which would probably sport some of the best protection that's in the game

Literally asking for looters to have the ability to kill armored troops. How do you not see a gameplay and realisim flaw in your suggestion? Its terrible. Its not fun. Its also not even realistic either. Its just plain stupid.

Heres a better use case for daggers

In organized, tight formation-based battles, there would be virtually no room to swing longer swords or two-handed weapons, you're packed into a mosh pit and would hit your allies as much as your enemies. The obvious example is the Roman legions. In the classical/Republican period they used the Gladius, a short thrusting sword that was consistently shorter than the swords used by their opposition, particularly the Gauls, who used long slashing swords. That didn't mean that the longer sword won simply because it was longer, clearly. Shorter weapons are faster and more precise, and they don't require over a metre of room to use either. In the organized (and usually very slow) combat that the Romans participated in the shorter sword was superior for all the reasons listed, as well as the fact that you didn't wear yourself out after 10 minutes of fighting swinging some great piece of metal through the air.

See? If Sundeki can think of a way to make daggers, fun and even able to appease to the "mega ultra make the game realistic" fanboys then so can you.

So what you're suggesting is that every single time I kill someone in Bannerlord I have to switch to my knife and stab him on the ground to make sure he stays dead?

Is that what you call fun gameplay for you? Because having to purchase a second weapon and manually pin down and stab a knight with a knife sounds tedious, boring, and stupid when I could be spending my time raiding, killing archers, having epic duels, or fighting big battles.

Sure cool daggers can kill knights, but mount and blade combat is too fast for stupid unfun crap like having to switch to a different weapon to kill a person.

The realisim mob here pisses me off. Thank god for Taleworlds for not making these guys game developers and focusing on FUN>REALISM, the most important aspect of any video game

*snip*

So what you're saying is that you want to make it so looters can ignore my heavy metal armor and stab me amd my elite army of troops to death?

This is not fun, or realistic... at all.

I like how you keep arguing that people fighting daggers is realistic and how they can go toe to toe with knights, but then your idea to somehow translate to making that a fun gameplay experience is by making it so armor is useless.

Theres no fun in having your expensive armor be useless when some level 1 tatter rag homeless dude can shank you....

Its not realistic to have knives to melt through metal...


What the hell is your game here? You are not arguing for realism, or fun game.

 

[Innocent Flower]

We already established this a couple pages ago and agreed that this idea is stupid and won't fit with Bannerlord's combat at all.

Read my comment there on why this is stupid and wont work in Bannerlord.

You're a very loud minority and few listen to you, let alone would include themselves in your "we". 
Most people like conversation, we're rather sick of you trying to shut it down. We want a niche for the dagger, even if some of us are merely spit balling.

 

[lolbash]

Thats big, coming from the guy that wants to shove realism into Bannerlord in every corner, at the cost of fun gameplay.

Fun>Realism.

 

[Bonky!]

Thats big, coming from the guy that wants to shove realism into Bannerlord in every corner, at the cost of fun gameplay.

Fun>Realism.

  Your arguments have basically consisted of calling peoples ideas 'stupid', 'unfun', and 'realistic and unfun'.  Even when you quote Sundeki you still go on to mention 'the "mega ultra make the game realistic" fanboys'.

  Taleworlds is building the game.  The forums are a place to spout ideas.  They're simply ideas; nobody has to adhere to them.

  If you want to be heard then give others' ideas the respect they deserve.  Also, learn to articulate your own ideas so other people can see them as you do.

 

[SenorZorros]

Are you talking about real life, or about bannerlord? Because in real life, yes, I totally agree. I have also seen them on paintings, and we have resources about it.

In bannerlord, idunno, but I haven't see any troops in the videos swiching to dagger, either if it was light, or heavy soilder. Theay had swords, maces, axes. But since then they could change it, probably, or the would not talk about it in a blog.

I don't remember, but have we seen fresh recruites, or levies in any battle videos? Maybe in sieges? I have to watch it again, I'd like to check them.

real life. in bannerlord we have seen a couple looters with daggers but those were looters. I'm mostly sad about the fact it gets ignored in media in general when it was a very relevant weapon which does have potential.

We already established this a couple pages ago and agreed that this idea is stupid and won't fit with Bannerlord's combat at all.

Read my comment there on why this is stupid and wont work in Bannerlord.

You're a very loud minority and few listen to you, let alone would include themselves in your "we". 
Most people like conversation, we're rather sick of you trying to shut it down. We want a niche for the dagger, even if some of us are merely spit balling.

+1 to that. no one established anything and fun=realism>"fun". Also, if people think making daggers ignore (some of the) armour makes looters op I'd love to know how they would be able to avoid swords and polearms.

 

[lolbash]

Also, if people think making daggers ignore armour makes looters op I'd love to know how they would be able to avoid swords and polearms.