five bucks
Knight at Arms
Preach. This is without a doubt one of the biggest problems facing Bannerlord gameplay at the moment.
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Damage/protection conception: the elephant in the room
- Thread starter Terco_Viejo
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Knight at Arms
Close vote so far 
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five bucks
Knight at Arms
Hahahahhahahahahaha. Ooooffff.
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Thanks to you for being the catalyst for taking the poll and bringing this issue to the reddit community and gather data.
It makes sense to me that you have a cautious approach to making promises, but that doesn't diminish the need for direct action and strong solutions to long-standing issues that affect the very foundations of the game. It boggles my mind that Taleworlds (team leaders designers/decision makers) are being so myopic on issues so basic as the ones at hand in this thread... I honestly feel that way.
While it is true that on other occasions, the meme effect or humorous criticism has diluted the chances of serious consideration, there are times when the evidence is so remarkable that it cannot be ignored or underestimated. I am no more deserving of attention than any other user who exposes their feedback but I wish this video would be brought to the meeting table along with the question: is this acceptable?
Custom battle enviroment - no runnig mods
As I noted above, there are hundreds of users who have contributed significant data over the 2+ years of development. Recently, @five bucks , shared this Warband vs Bannerlord comparison.
Bannerlord | Warband |
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Again, don't you see the inconsistency?
This needs to be addressed in a meaningful way and without half-measures. Inconsistencies in armour protection values (what protects more than what - pelts capes being more protective than chainmail shoulders a example of many), inconsistencies in weapon damage (what does more damage than what) that are exorbitant and magnified by speed multipliers, projectiles... it's a continuum that only makes this problem worse as time goes on. And all this collaterally affects the pace of battle (both in mission and campaign map) by the inconsistencies between tiers and in the economy...
Here are two comments from @Philozoraptor (Realistic Battle Mod co-author), which in my opinion are worth considering too:
Thank Duh for commenting and enriching the debate.
MRay taking one for the team.
Terco_Viejos Video is clear proof that vanilla armor doesn´t really matter. Now compare that to RBM.
Terco_Viejos Video is clear proof that vanilla armor doesn´t really matter. Now compare that to RBM.
The M&B series has always implemented ludicrously expensive prices for better armour and weapons. Players accept this as long as the grind to attain them is matched by their ultimate reward. Dressing up dolls for better advantage has always been a huge part of the motivation in any M&B game. With Bannerlord, this is lost. One armour is little better than another. The only value to loot is cash value or cosmetics - upgrades seem pointless. That diminishes excitement over both loot and shopping. What I'm trying to say is that this is a more fundamental gameplay issue than just combat mechanics or balance. Weapon and armour upgrades need to have purpose and value to motivate players. IMO the current balance is misguided.
EDIT - my comments relate to single-player campaigns, I know nothing about multiplayer.
EDIT - my comments relate to single-player campaigns, I know nothing about multiplayer.
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Absolutely in agreement
How is this possible?
source
Edit: NPC99 reaction edition. I must underline that the whole debate is revolving around the SP, I have pointed this out on several occasions and I hope it will be taken into consideration for the rest of the participants.
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Fantastic, thank you for bringing this.
How could somebody "overpromise" something so basic as balancing armor protection?
Either the balancing works or it doesn't. Granted that may be subjective but still. This sounds like you are planning an over complex system to deal with this. An over complex system isn't needed. If you give us a solution similar to how armor worked in WB that would be enough.
Or is it that there is still a discussion about what the Vision™ of armor protection is?
five bucks
Knight at Arms
Thanks to you for being the catalyst for taking the poll and bringing this issue to the reddit community and gather data.
It makes sense to me that you have a cautious approach to making promises, but that doesn't diminish the need for direct action and strong solutions to long-standing issues that affect the very foundations of the game. It boggles my mind that Taleworlds (team leaders designers/decision makers) are being so myopic on issues so basic as the ones at hand in this thread... I honestly feel that way.
While it is true that on other occasions, the meme effect or humorous criticism has diluted the chances of serious consideration, there are times when the evidence is so remarkable that it cannot be ignored or underestimated. I am no more deserving of attention than any other user who exposes their feedback but I wish this video would be brought to the meeting table along with the question: is this acceptable?
Custom battle enviroment - no runnig mods
As I noted above, there are hundreds of users who have contributed significant data over the 2+ years of development. Recently, @five bucks , shared this Warband vs Bannerlord comparison.
Again, don't you see the inconsistency?
This needs to be addressed in a meaningful way and without half-measures. Inconsistencies in armour protection values (what protects more than what - pelts capes being more protective than chainmail shoulders a example of many), inconsistencies in weapon damage (what does more damage than what) that are exorbitant and magnified by speed multipliers, projectiles... it's a continuum that only makes this problem worse as time goes on. And all this collaterally affects the pace of battle (both in mission and campaign map) by the inconsistencies between tiers and in the economy...
Here are two comments from @Philozoraptor (Realistic Battle Mod co-author), which in my opinion are worth considering too:
Thank Duh for commenting and enriching the debate.
Your short video really sums up the issue far better and more succinctly than my incomplete graphs. Good work.
I would also like to add that the hits-to-kill on those graphs were recorded from a distance of around 30m
By giving false information.
As long as development continues there will be discussion on how the various systems of the game can and should work, yes.
That seems like a separate issue to me. If you (or others) have or know of relevant reports in this regard, I would be happy to raise them.
@Duh_TaleWorlds: Thanks for answering!
I guess the question which everybody has on his mind and pretty much everybody has asked before is: how does the decision making process in your company work? To me it defies all logic. I thought somebody, Armagan or anybody else, had the pants on and a very specific vision of where the game needs to go which shall not be interupted. That pretty much made sense looking backwards. But now you tell me basically everything (at least balance wise) is still up for discussion.
I don't expect you to answer this. By all likelyhood for one reason or the other you couldn't anyways. But this is probably the most confusing answer you could have given me.
I guess the question which everybody has on his mind and pretty much everybody has asked before is: how does the decision making process in your company work? To me it defies all logic. I thought somebody, Armagan or anybody else, had the pants on and a very specific vision of where the game needs to go which shall not be interupted. That pretty much made sense looking backwards. But now you tell me basically everything (at least balance wise) is still up for discussion.
Just stirrin the pot
These charts also help to understand in more perspective the issue we are dealing with here. Thank you, mate.
Well, I would say they go hand in hand, but it's true that it's more of a subjective issue.
With the different armour and other equipment, even though you've been fixing it over the course of the new patches; there are still inconsistencies like these.
Some examples
Clearly if a rework or a new approach to the issue at hand here were to be satisfied, those visual differences would go more unnoticed and enter into a plausible "adaptation due to balance" scenario.
On the other hand and much more important is the question of weapons not so much for aesthetics but for use. For example, those polearms like the glaive, war razors, romphaias, long menavlions or 2h axes or other 2h weapons should have some kind of usage penalty. They are already highly lethal on foot already, so they should not* have the same or higher performance in mounted combat (base damage + speed multiplier).
And then there are projectiles, arrows in particular. Their damage is totally disproportionate across the board and should in my opinion be scaled (see fivebucks colour charts above).
On the other hand, seeing as you are participating in the debate (which I appreciate) I would like to drop a question to everyone in general.
If the rider is falling down the slope with the horse, it is quite possible that the HP is significantly reduced (to 0 if it is from a great height), I wonder.... -What do you think about the fall damage to the rider? Let me explain:
Imagine you are riding with your mount and it receives a lethal strike from a javelin causing you to crash and roll a few feet forward. Currently this does not happen (not to be confused with simultaneous hit), so I ask you:
- Should the rider take any % damage in this type of scenario?
(*)Edit
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