cameron112497
Squire
Yes but unless they have the same base unit you might countinously get offered ones you don't want.
Carthage
- Thread starter ealabor
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Squire
Carthage is the one I am waiting for... SUPERB!
Ebin
Sergeant Knight at Arms
You were right Ealabor!!! There aren't any black people!! Jk... jk... I don't actually take politics very personal. Didn't mean to offend you there, just poking some fun 
. Anyways, this actually looks great. I never actually really liked the way Carthage is presented in any other game/mod. But I might actually play as your Carthage. That being said I'm also curious to see what the sling animation looks like. I tried at it myself and I kept messing up the keys so the sling was flying around everywhere!
. Anyways, this actually looks great. I never actually really liked the way Carthage is presented in any other game/mod. But I might actually play as your Carthage. That being said I'm also curious to see what the sling animation looks like. I tried at it myself and I kept messing up the keys so the sling was flying around everywhere!
FrisianDude
Archduke
Wow, absolutely amaing. I'm looking forward to dicing them.
Tanit
Recruit
8/10 Very nice. I obviously have my disagreements with a number of things, but thats because I'm anal about this sort of stuff. You have done a fantastic job for having little support and attempting to produce such a great mod.
I wish to offer my suggestions about Carthage, being the Carthage FC for Europa Barbarorum, but I don't want you to take it the wrong way, I still think your doing a great job!
Libyans:
You could start this tree off with Libyan skirmisher which did exist using javelins and swords and shields. This can go to Libyan Spearmen, essentially hoplites with hoplon shields and dori spears, and Libyan Swordsmen, armed with sword and javelin still but better shield and armour. The Libyan spearman can upgrade to thureophoroi and then thorakitai or to phalangites. The swordsmen can upgrade to a heavier version or to a light/medium cavalry.
Liby-Phoenicians:
Your tree looks good, but the infantry should be medium hoplites instead of thureophoroi.
Poeni:
Once again this tree looks alright, but the infantry should be a heavy hoplite, similar to sacred band, but not quite as good, instead of a thureophoroi. And the use of the term Sacred Band cavalry is a later interpretation, but its so commonly accepted that there is no point in calling it anything else.
Now I realize this is all unsupported advice and might be too much work to change in the implementation now. Your work is already pretty darn good. A lot better than the majority of Carthage representations out there. Keep up the good work!
I wish to offer my suggestions about Carthage, being the Carthage FC for Europa Barbarorum, but I don't want you to take it the wrong way, I still think your doing a great job!
Libyans:
You could start this tree off with Libyan skirmisher which did exist using javelins and swords and shields. This can go to Libyan Spearmen, essentially hoplites with hoplon shields and dori spears, and Libyan Swordsmen, armed with sword and javelin still but better shield and armour. The Libyan spearman can upgrade to thureophoroi and then thorakitai or to phalangites. The swordsmen can upgrade to a heavier version or to a light/medium cavalry.
Liby-Phoenicians:
Your tree looks good, but the infantry should be medium hoplites instead of thureophoroi.
Poeni:
Once again this tree looks alright, but the infantry should be a heavy hoplite, similar to sacred band, but not quite as good, instead of a thureophoroi. And the use of the term Sacred Band cavalry is a later interpretation, but its so commonly accepted that there is no point in calling it anything else.
Now I realize this is all unsupported advice and might be too much work to change in the implementation now. Your work is already pretty darn good. A lot better than the majority of Carthage representations out there. Keep up the good work!
Hi Tanit.
All of the factions have 5 "mini" troop trees, which allow for easy progression for players to get to troops they want or need. The first tree, is the tree which players will be able to recruit from "villages", and every tree after that players would be required to join the faction in order to get access.
Though there may be one or two exceptions such as with the Greek psiloi tree, the first tree is usually one of the smallest for the faction, and filled with the lowest of rank troops. In this case, this happened to be Libyans. The descending order of screenshots per faction thread reflects this trend, so we see that Libyans being the first tree are the first screenshots for example. Looking at that we can see that the Libyans have a few hoplite themed troops in their tree. IIRC the tree starts with a levy hoplite type, which gives the option to upgrade to a better hoplite type, or on to a pikeman with sarissa.
I could explore every variable of any troop type combination possible, i.e. more Libyan troops, but at the end of the day I have to say no somewhere and curb the work required.
If you worked with EB as you have suggested, then you must realize that they had access to quite a big pool of skilled team members and contributors. Whereas in contrast, the members and contributors which have commited significant work to 268 B.C. are numbered less than 10, and the people responsible for the bulk of textures and models for the mod are numbered at 3. Which speaks alot to their contributions considering the number of factions the mod features 24+, and troop roster of 15-26 troops per faction.
I'm sure you realize that, as you have mentioned, but just saying it again to explain why this or that might not be in the mod.
There are hoplite-esque troops features in this tree.
Well technically it's an earlier term and applied to just foot troop. Europa Barbarorum err'd in historicity by including these terms, as they were wiped out in Sicily, then permanently in Tunis, prior to the start of both mods.
Being a fan of Carthage myself, they somehow slipped into the earlier version of 268 B.C. Those terms are not used for the next version, unless you are playing with the English translated file.
Of course if you have evidence to the contrary, i'd always be interested to see it.
Tanit said:
All of the factions have 5 "mini" troop trees, which allow for easy progression for players to get to troops they want or need. The first tree, is the tree which players will be able to recruit from "villages", and every tree after that players would be required to join the faction in order to get access.
Though there may be one or two exceptions such as with the Greek psiloi tree, the first tree is usually one of the smallest for the faction, and filled with the lowest of rank troops. In this case, this happened to be Libyans. The descending order of screenshots per faction thread reflects this trend, so we see that Libyans being the first tree are the first screenshots for example. Looking at that we can see that the Libyans have a few hoplite themed troops in their tree. IIRC the tree starts with a levy hoplite type, which gives the option to upgrade to a better hoplite type, or on to a pikeman with sarissa.
I could explore every variable of any troop type combination possible, i.e. more Libyan troops, but at the end of the day I have to say no somewhere and curb the work required.
If you worked with EB as you have suggested, then you must realize that they had access to quite a big pool of skilled team members and contributors. Whereas in contrast, the members and contributors which have commited significant work to 268 B.C. are numbered less than 10, and the people responsible for the bulk of textures and models for the mod are numbered at 3. Which speaks alot to their contributions considering the number of factions the mod features 24+, and troop roster of 15-26 troops per faction.
I'm sure you realize that, as you have mentioned, but just saying it again to explain why this or that might not be in the mod.
Tanit said:
There are hoplite-esque troops features in this tree.
Tanit said:
Well technically it's an earlier term and applied to just foot troop. Europa Barbarorum err'd in historicity by including these terms, as they were wiped out in Sicily, then permanently in Tunis, prior to the start of both mods.
Being a fan of Carthage myself, they somehow slipped into the earlier version of 268 B.C.
Those terms are not used for the next version, unless you are playing with the English translated file.Of course if you have evidence to the contrary, i'd always be interested to see it.
Tanit
Recruit
Yes, I definitely understand the limitations of small teams, or one man teams, and I wish you the best of luck.
As for Sacred Band, yeah, that's always a tricky one.
Sacred Band Infantry: The most elite and best equipped hoplite citizen troops of Carthage who formed the right flank of the battle line in the old Punic army. Called Sacred Band by the Greeks and given a religious connection to Baal Hammon by them as well. With the extremely vague descriptions of the Punic citizen armies that did fight in the First Punic War it is impossible to say if they were revived or not. But is clear that by the end of the war/the beginning of the second war, they were very much gone.
Sacred Band Cavalry: Don't exist. There were heavily equipped and very well trained citizen cavalry who appeared on occasion to form the right flank cavalry of the army but not even the authors who coined the Sacred Band infantry as a group referred to the cavalry in that way. Some later author called them that and associated them with Astarte which is a little ridiculous for Carthage. Tanit, Baal Melqart, Demeter or Persephone maybe, but Astarte is a bit of a stretch for the religious practices of Carthage.
As for Sacred Band, yeah, that's always a tricky one.
Sacred Band Infantry: The most elite and best equipped hoplite citizen troops of Carthage who formed the right flank of the battle line in the old Punic army. Called Sacred Band by the Greeks and given a religious connection to Baal Hammon by them as well. With the extremely vague descriptions of the Punic citizen armies that did fight in the First Punic War it is impossible to say if they were revived or not. But is clear that by the end of the war/the beginning of the second war, they were very much gone.
Sacred Band Cavalry: Don't exist. There were heavily equipped and very well trained citizen cavalry who appeared on occasion to form the right flank cavalry of the army but not even the authors who coined the Sacred Band infantry as a group referred to the cavalry in that way. Some later author called them that and associated them with Astarte which is a little ridiculous for Carthage. Tanit, Baal Melqart, Demeter or Persephone maybe, but Astarte is a bit of a stretch for the religious practices of Carthage.
0.02$:
While I like historical accuracy, I never find it very important in the unit names. Equipment, clothing, colors - yes, unit names? often it is more annoying than immersive when you have names in 15 languages you are not familiar with and you are forced to memorize troop trees. Often the game units are only representative of historical units of many variations anyway. "Sacred band cavalry" sounds clear, good and atmospheric enough. Unless there was a clear historical nickname to these punic cavalry, I suggest the name is kept.
While I like historical accuracy, I never find it very important in the unit names. Equipment, clothing, colors - yes, unit names? often it is more annoying than immersive when you have names in 15 languages you are not familiar with and you are forced to memorize troop trees. Often the game units are only representative of historical units of many variations anyway. "Sacred band cavalry" sounds clear, good and atmospheric enough. Unless there was a clear historical nickname to these punic cavalry, I suggest the name is kept.
