add cultural integration into the game

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I would like the game to have the cities I conquered slowly (like in 5-10 in-game years) become the same culture as my faction. whenever you enter a city there can be a meter that tells you the main culture of the city and how much of other cultures' influence it as well. it will determine what is produced in the city (ex. Valandian culture city will produce Valandian armor, weapons, and troops). if a culture's influences is 75% or more, then that becomes the main culture. now there is a similar idea in this thread called Let town owners build ethnic enclaves that unlock different culture troops and trade goods, but they talk about having some cultural variety in troop/armor production that the player must actively choose to do rather than pure integration that happen naturally over time. of course the problem is that if the player likes a kind of troop from a different faction, then by mid to late game they might never see them again. the solution is when a city/village change their troop production to match the the culture, the powerful notables in the city will still produce troops of their original faction, so the player can still recruit the best troops of a dead faction (Khan's Guard, Fian Champion, Cataphracts, etc...). the only other problem I see is the fact that this can change how rebellions work, but they are just an annoyance more than an actual threat anyway, so I don't care.
 

DeFlunt

Recruit
First of all I like the idea that a settlement can change culture over time.

But in my opinion it should more of a transition than a hard 75% value.

There should be more stages in between.
E.g.
100% vlandian culture -> only vlandian recruits
80% vlandian culture/20% empire culture -> 1 of the notables becomes empire and offers only empire troops.
60% vlandian culture/40% empire culture -> 2 of the notables becomes empire
....
(You get the idea)

And then there should be an policy for a kingdom to set if it's possible to create local troops, so even if a culture value reaches 0% you can still recruit some local units from x number of notables.

What I want to see even more is a transition with auxiliary units that are very specific for a combination of 2 cultures, but that's a hole other topic.
 
What I want to see even more is a transition with auxiliary units that are very specific for a combination of 2 cultures, but that's a hole other topic.
that's actually a good idea... but I don't trust the developers to balance anything out at this point; why give them something else for people to complain about
 

Tryvenyal

Sergeant at Arms
There should be more stages in between.
E.g.
100% vlandian culture -> only vlandian recruits
80% vlandian culture/20% empire culture -> 1 of the notables becomes empire and offers only empire troops.
60% vlandian culture/40% empire culture -> 2 of the notables becomes empire
....
(You get the idea)
This is exactly what the linked tread proposes - but opposite.....
 
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Tryvenyal

Sergeant at Arms
I would like the game to have the cities I conquered slowly (like in 5-10 in-game years) become the same culture as my faction. whenever you enter a city there can be a meter that tells you the main culture of the city and how much of other cultures' influence it as well.
what should affect how this meter moves? just beeing under a certain lord or deeper thought - over ideas?

The linked suggestion starts with the notables and asimilate from there, where your suggestion start with control and assimilate Notables fromthere.

I´d say the linked thread has more depth.

Many many IRL cultures has been ruled by a different culture for ages - thousands of years - without assimilating. Few cultures assimilate passively in a few years or even a few centuries!
 
what should affect how this meter moves? just beeing under a certain lord or deeper thought - over ideas?
as I said, the main thing to affect how the meter move is the faction it is under, though I suppose the lord/governor can have an affect as well. I don't want the system to be to complicated, but if I were to make it more in depth I would have affect the culture of a settlement:
- the faction that the settlement is under.
- the lord/governor directly ruling it.
- policies (devs can tweak policies to make them influence culture, as well as add new policies to make culture change faster/slower. example of a new policy would be Autonomous Rule where culture change is slowed, tax revenue is reduced, but settlements will not receive the loyalty negative for being of different culture. another one can be Cultural Genocide where culture will more quickly change to the ruling faction's, but security/and loyalty of a settlement of different culture will take penalties )
- loyalty/security
- surrounding settlements
- prosperity
 

MakinTorf

Veteran
my suggestion to just simplify it would be the option to change the npc´s in the towns.
then you will have a row of different soldiers of culture
 

Tryvenyal

Sergeant at Arms
as I said, the main thing to affect how the meter move is the faction it is under, though I suppose the lord/governor can have an affect as well. I don't want the system to be to complicated, but if I were to make it more in depth I would have affect the culture of a settlement:

You are proposing a passive assimilation that does just happen without any concequences in the game.
Unfortunatly, there is no realism in such system, as I said above, passive assimilation does not simply happen.

Look at other games, how they have struggled with such features. And in most of these games, it takes decades, not to say centuries and there is almost allways a cost/active decision to assimilate.

Take a look at the IRL world. How many countries feature a single culture? A lot of countries that has been a round for many hundreds of years does still have minority cultures, and many has been a minority countryless culture for over 1000 years. They will never assimilate passively :smile: and that´s a countryless culture...! They can atleast be integrated.

You say you want an easy feature. This is an extremly complicated topic IRL, following no major rules historically.
Counquered towns does actually tend to have a STRONGER cultural identity rather than a weaker, as that is one effect of cultural tension.
This means if Vlandia conqueres a Battanian town, its battanian population should grow MORE battanian than battanians under Battanian rule.

I see the issue and share the wish to assimilate. Playing as a Vlandian lord, vassal to Vlandia, you will likely currently never get a Vlandian fief, despite beeing very powerful. Which is very bad.
 

Tryvenyal

Sergeant at Arms
my suggestion to just simplify it would be the option to change the npc´s in the towns.
then you will have a row of different soldiers of culture

Mine too. That´s the way to go. Total higherst power among all noteables defines the culture of the holding.

The challenge is to balance how to spawn non-native noteables.

This thread(linked in OT asw) gives a few realistic ideas. Maybe some unrealistic ideas needs to added to speed up, enable this to happen at afew places in a long playthough...

My overall vision is, when a noteable is spawned, if the holding is held by another culture lord or kingdom, spawn 2 new weak noteables instead, one native and one conquerer cultured. There will be too many noteables for the town and one or more will likely be lost. Let there be mechanisms that enable the lord to favour the non-native noteables. Some directly active. Ofcource to the cost of loyalty! Whithout active support from the lord, the non-native noteable will likely not survive as a power in the town.
 
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Look at other games, how they have struggled with such features. And in most of these games, it takes decades, not to say centuries and there is almost allways a cost/active decision to assimilate.
I did say it should take 5-10 in game years. that could be extended, but I have to account for cities being retaken, which would halt the your progress of assimilation. also, I forgot to say this, but rebelling settlements should undo any progress of cultural assimilation by having the main culture of the settlement turn 100% on the culture bar. this is historically accurate as most rebellions/revolts begin with systematic killing of the oppressor's citizens and the destruction of any of their culture (Boudica's Rebellion is a great example of this). if we account for this, complete assimilation can take 20 years to an in-game lifetime.

my suggestion to just simplify it would be the option to change the npc´s in the towns.
then you will have a row of different soldiers of culture
I gave the link saying the same thing called "Let town owners build ethnic enclaves that unlock different culture troops and trade goods", and they talk about that, but this is about culture assimilation, which goes a little deeper than that. also, I prefer not to have a mess of troops from different cultures, especially if I'm roleplaying.
 

Tryvenyal

Sergeant at Arms
I prefer not to have a mess of troops from different cultures, especially if I'm roleplaying.
Isn't that exactly what a counquering warlord SHOULD experience? How do you picture that, within a limited part of your charachters lifespan make every inhabitant in your conquered city culture shift to your culture? Unless you picture genocide and replace them from your homeland, this is impossible :smile:

I will stop arguing here. This is your suggestion and you are free to your opinion :smile:
 

DeFlunt

Recruit
Isn't that exactly what a counquering warlord SHOULD experience? How do you picture that, within a limited part of your charachters lifespan make every inhabitant in your conquered city culture shift to your culture? Unless you picture genocide and replace them from your homeland, this is impossible :smile:

I will stop arguing here. This is your suggestion and you are free to your opinion :smile:

You are correct in my opinion, that this should be possible in a single lifespan of a character.
(BTW an other topic of mine gives a solution to this, https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/adding-real-fast-forwarding-a-bridge-to-far.439335/)

But I also understand emo_edjiboye, I also like the idea of having pure army's (No different culture units in your armies).
So 2 solutions comes to mind:
- Option to choose what kind of gameplay you want (probably a MOD is the easiest way but if its easy to integrate taleworld should add this)
- Create Auxiliary units like I suggested above, but this will take a lot of time to implement...
 

Tryvenyal

Sergeant at Arms
But I also understand emo_edjiboye, I also like the idea of having pure army's (No different culture units in your armies).
So 2 solutions comes to mind:
- Option to choose what kind of gameplay you want (probably a MOD is the easiest way but if its easy to integrate taleworld should add this)
- Create Auxiliary units like I suggested above, but this will take a lot of time to implement...

Me too! To join a faction and never own a holding of their culture is frustrating!

I like the idea of Auxilliary troops.
And VC featured both Lordly start and Kingly start. Hope that will make it into BL.

Enable me to get holdings from within the faction I join as vassal. Give a same culture castle when joining(or via a quest or whatever!) and make rulers revoke holdings where you can be an option as replacement. Also make rulers less greedy to hold 5-10 holdings themselves. Make 2-3 holdings the standards of a powerfull lord/ruler.

But Cultures is in the game for a reason...
 
Auxiliary troops would a cool addition to the game, but should they be knock-off versions of the culture's troops or try to fill a lack of troop variety? Valandia has no mounted ranged unit or archers. maybe an auxiliary troops for them could include a mounted crossbow unit and archers. adding variety as a reward would fix issues about it being hard to get certain units if you in a particular culture.
 
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