Let town owners build ethnic enclaves that unlock different culture troops and trade goods

It should be possible for town owners to build (and destroy) ethnic enclaves in towns they own

  • Yes, and it should unlock troop recruitment and trade goods from the enclave culture

    Votes: 9 81.8%
  • Yes, and it should unlock only troop recruitment from the enclave culture

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Yes, and it should unlock only trade goods from the enclave culture

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • Total voters
    11

Users who are viewing this thread

84Slashes

Veteran
Cross-posting from another thread since I haven't seen this specific idea mentioned anywhere and am curious to hear thoughts...

Town owners should be able to build ethnic enclaves that unlock troop recruitment from different cultures than the settlement, and provide trade goods from that culture.

For example if I own Tyal but decide I'd like some Khuzait flavor in the town, I can spend denars to build a 'Khuzait quarter' which once completed could have the following effects:
  • Adds 1-2 new Khuzait notables providing Khuzait troops for recruitment
  • Adds a small selection of Khuzait armor, weapons, and trade goods (e.g. steppe horses) to the town's inventory
Further considerations to flesh this idea out:
  • A town can only have 1 ethnic enclave -- so players have to choose carefully if they value Imperial armor and trade goods, or Vlandian soldiers, in their decision of whether to build an Imperial quarter or a Vlandian district
  • Adding an ethnic enclave should reduce settlement loyalty and security, both to make it a meaningful trade-off (otherwise no reason not to build one in every town) and to reflect the sad historical reality that xenophobia and ethnic conflict was (and remains) a thing
  • Town owners should also be able to demolish or change the culture an ethnic enclave if they decide they must -- but it should come at a severe temporary malus to settlement security and loyalty. Effectively you are purging an entire community that was previously invited to the town. This may be a choice particularly when a town changes hands and the new owners (including the player) prefer one culture over another.
I think this would give players a meaningful new way to invest in their towns, and enable them to unlock access to non-settlement culture troops in towns within reasonable limits. Thoughts?
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Overall +1. But I don't know if I support you pick at will. A sturgian lord owning a Sturgian fief building an Aserai/Vlandian quarter does not at all makes sense. But an Kuzhait lord holding a Sturgian city founding a kuzhait enclave does make sense. Maybe a Vlandian lord serving Sturgia could build a Vlandian quarter. I don't know , I want some connection!

I would like to expand it though! I want different types of enclaves.

The lord can build a military quarter, drafting freemen(recruits) and smithing artisans to the city.
Adding 1-2 weak smithowning artisans of lords or faction's culture. When an artisan dies, of another culture than the enclave dies, a enclave cultured artisan spawns besides a native one.
When implemented, this works quite as OP suggested.

Spawning merchants should have chanse to be of a different culture depending on trade infuences.
Ex, if 75% of trade in a battanian city is done by Vlandian merchants, there should be a decent chanse of a spawning weak merchant of Vlandian culture, besides a random battanian one. He offers Vlandian caravan recruits, mixed with Battanian Volunteers if he becomes powerful. Caravans prefer trading with same-culture merchants so a vlandian merchant gets an extra share of influence provided from Vlandian caravans(Could always be true. In homogenous towns it would not matter)

Spawning criminal gangleaders should have a chanse of beeing of an enemy culture if prosperity is low.
Thinking this could be a cool feature. He spawns besides a native gangleader. If gangleaders becomes strong, they could offer troops of the bandit faction assosiated with his culture mixed with native recruits.

Villiger Landowners I need to think more about. :smile:
 

84Slashes

Veteran
Overall +1. But I don't know if I support you pick at will. A sturgian lord owning a Sturgian fief building an Aserai/Vlandian quarter does not at all makes sense. But an Kuzhait lord holding a Sturgian city founding a kuzhait enclave does make sense. Maybe a Vlandian lord serving Sturgia could build a Vlandian quarter. I don't know , I want some connection!

I would like to expand it though! I want different types of enclaves.

The lord can build a military quarter, drafting freemen(recruits) and smithing artisans to the city.
Adding 1-2 weak smithowning artisans of lords or faction's culture. When an artisan dies, of another culture than the enclave dies, a enclave cultured artisan spawns besides a native one.
When implemented, this works quite as OP suggested.

Spawning merchants should have chanse to be of a different culture depending on trade infuences.
Ex, if 75% of trade in a battanian city is done by Vlandian merchants, there should be a decent chanse of a spawning weak merchant of Vlandian culture, besides a random battanian one. He offers Vlandian caravan recruits, mixed with Battanian Volunteers if he becomes powerful. Caravans prefer trading with same-culture merchants so a vlandian merchant gets an extra share of influence provided from Vlandian caravans(Could always be true. In homogenous towns it would not matter)

Spawning criminal gangleaders should have a chanse of beeing of an enemy culture if prosperity is low.
Thinking this could be a cool feature. He spawns besides a native gangleader. If gangleaders becomes strong, they could offer troops of the bandit faction assosiated with his culture mixed with native recruits.

Villiger Landowners I need to think more about. :smile:

Very interesting points! I like the idea of further distinguishing quarters into military vs. trade vs. artisans, and that choice opening up either troop recruitment, or trade goods, or arms/armor from the foreign culture. In that case I wonder if limiting the number of quarters is still necessary
🤔

Agree also with the chance to spawn merchants and gang leaders of different cultures, especially if there are many caravans coming from that culture. Chance to spawn criminal notables should probably increase briefly if a district is demolished (to represent the foreigners pushed into crime thru the harsh laws of the the town)!
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Very interesting points! I like the idea of further distinguishing quarters into military vs. trade vs. artisans, and that choice opening up either troop recruitment, or trade goods, or arms/armor from the foreign culture. In that case I wonder if limiting the number of quarters is still necessary
🤔

I think the only limited one should be one lord-triggered artisan district. The others are more evolutional, harder to manipulate. With this approach, a district is only reprecented by notables, which in turn effects what´s on the market and what can be recruited. This could create metropolitan cities with not one distinguished culture.

It does ofcource require a lot of tuning and balancing. The chance should quite small. And to establish should be quite hard, without player influence, it should rarely happen that a foreign notable manages to become powerful in a foreign city.

Excactly how a propserous enclave should grow, I don't know. But when replacing a powerful enclave- cultured notable who has died.. I think in most cases 2 new should spawn, one native and one enclave-cultured, which would mean there are a notable of that type too much- less powergeneration for all notables of the type and one will probably be lost within short. A notable lost for having too low influence should(not) be replaced via current rules, adding enclave chances depending on what kind of notable he is. This is by the way how enclaves is removed. So enforcing an artisan enclave requires you to babysit the spawned artisans and help them gain power, and same is likely true for other generated enclaves to stay powerful.

I don't know for sure the variables behind how the different notables grow their influence except via solving their issues but they need to be tweaked to have cultural influencer, like I suggested for merchants. I assume they today gain influence for each incoming caravan. Tweaking that to increase the share from same-culture caravans is the most obvoius I can find. Ciminal could be influenced by which type of bandits that harasses the neightbourhood. I also liked your suggestion, weak notables that get´s lost due to low power could spawn a criminal notable from among his cultural labourforce. Artisans... Well all I can come up with is he needs cheap rawmaterial. Nothing cultural there but increasing his supply of rawmaterial and decreasing other artisans´s supply.. But how a smith is favoured over another, I can't make up :smile:
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Agree also with the chance to spawn merchants and gang leaders of different cultures, especially if there are many caravans coming from that culture. Chance to spawn criminal notables should probably increase briefly if a district is demolished (to represent the foreigners pushed into crime thru the harsh laws of the the town)!

This is actually a really nice thought! It could be general(IE wark the same in homogenous towns). When a merchant or artisan is lost due to low power, a same-culture gang-leader spawns.
 
Top Bottom