A nord invasion as an end-game disaster?

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Limbojack said:
Am I the only one who half-suspect/hope that TaleWorlds will be bringing the nord invasion of Calradia as an end-game disaster? Personally, I'd love it if nords behaved like an improved version of the vikings in Viking Conquest. In the early game, they'd limit themselves to the occasional village raid along the coast, while in the mid-game, larger hosts would appear, hoping to settle new lands or even seize undefended villages or castles along the shoreline. As time goes on, their presence could gradually grow until a large invasion fleet tries to carve out a kingdom or two for themselves.
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It would be pretty difficult to manage this without some noticeably heavy railroading. The late-game mega-factions that tend to form are very, very difficult to take fiefs from. High prosperity plus food improvements to the settlements mean huge militia and garrison numbers. Absorbing lords from dead and dying factions gives them massive field strength (20,000+). They are rich enough to never care about money. Fief improvements, serving in armies, battle gains, kingdom policies, etc. all mean they have stacks of influence as well.

And if anyone does take a town or castle, it gets sieged as soon as an army arrives, while equally large armies show up to raid the bound villages flat. If the first army fails, a second army steps right on up and does the same thing. Then a third. Then a fourth. Then a fifth.And since autoresolved battles always cut reasonably close to even, both sides are taking huge losses, but the mega-faction can just strip its (hundreds strong) garrisons for instant replenishment.

To pull off a Nord invasion against that, you'd need several doomstacks, simultaneously sieging more than five settlements (five is about the average number of large armies a mega-faction will have in the late game), along with raiding. And even then I'm not sure they'd win because the current diplomacy leaves plenty of time for peacetime build-ups to all or mostly high-tier parties. Or just cheat in some other way.

Perhaps gifting the invading Nords a pseudo-city "landing site" that allows for fast and plentiful replenishment and won't ever be targeted by the AI?
 
Terco_Viejo said:
The Empire as a whole died with Arenicos, now there are three post-imperial factions engaged in a civil war. This is the perfect setting for the Nords to make their appearance. By the way, the Nords are not white walkers...please relax your tits :lol: .
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Well technically the Nords are already in the game at this point. They were settled there by the Empire as part of the deal on them manning the oars of the fleet. So a lot of the Sturgian army is made up of Nords. All we know at the moment is that the Nords invaded within the next 200 years. They still mainly use infantry in Warband so it suggests that they have not adapted to the new environment yet. So my guess is that they did not invade for another 100-150 years after the start of Bannerlord.
 
Terco_Viejo said:
If we were all living in a happy Arcadia, where Bannerlord already had the combat and naval transport features in place, this kind of late game event would make much more sense.
Imagine playing a campaign within the current map boundaries. When we reached the year 1100 (for example) a board would appear warning us that the Nord invasion was taking place. When you click on that panel, the map will expand its boundaries to the north, making the Nordlands area playable and accessible by ship.
This should be the Native.

A proper dlc, would be to add the factions of which they spoke to us in the lore in previous deliveries (Balion, Geroia, etc) and their territories (enlarging the campaign map).

I see a lot of conformity with the "dlcs" on your part guys...you are giving them a pretext for a lazy expansion :iamamoron:
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+1 to thousand

Yes please for all this, even if we had to get some sort of Loading scenes for new maps on West and East, North and south

I believe wouldn't take much power of a PC, I'm not a TI. But, I believe ppl who is playing the more recently released game has a powerful pc to handle this
 
Total war warhammer has a similar endgame in wich the Chaos hordes spawn on the north and start invading the south, the same goes for tw atila.
 
As a base sandbox campaign feature, it's not at all something I would want.

However we know that at some point in history there was a Nord invasion, so full support if TW makes this a separate campaign/scenario or just an option. Perhaps this could also feature the birth of the Rhodoks, that would be pretty cool to see. Something like a zoomed in version focused on the Warband map where the Vaegirs start off with all Nord territory, and Swadia starts off with all Rhodok territory.
 
Limbojack said:
Am I the only one who half-suspect/hope that TaleWorlds will be bringing the nord invasion of Calradia as an end-game disaster? Personally, I'd love it if nords behaved like an improved version of the vikings in Viking Conquest. In the early game, they'd limit themselves to the occasional village raid along the coast, while in the mid-game, larger hosts would appear, hoping to settle new lands or even seize undefended villages or castles along the shoreline. As time goes on, their presence could gradually grow until a large invasion fleet tries to carve out a kingdom or two for themselves.

I know that lore-wise, the nords would invade Calradia at some point between Bannerlord and Warband, but I'm not too familiar with the spesific years. Does anyone know if it's plausible that we could see a nord invasion in Bannerlord?
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I´ll rather have an indian/chinese invasion
 
Moton said:
Yes but we know that the nords invade Calradia at a later point, invade as in taking land not only raiding.

Also I love the idea, some kind of endgame would be nice. I mean after you've conquered the whole map there is absolutely nothing to do really so this mechanic would be really cool. They should be very powerfull and have a great and well equiped army also.
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The Khergit are also invaders in Warband, Borcha explains how at first they came over the mountains to raid and eventually decided to conquer if I'm not mistaking.

Considering taleworlds is working on a civil war mechanic I guess we'll get the rise of the vaegir related clan that takes over sturgia to become the Vaegir kingdom, The Sarran who will eventually settle in Calradia, the very angry and resentful Khergit tribe among the Khuzait etc...

Then you can have an expansion or a scripted event that a few years when the Vaegir clan controls the Sturgians That the Nord mercenary clans turn on them and start fighting them and invite their Nord brothers from overseas and then you can have a scripted invasion by having a few armies appear on a coast....
 
Hell no. Lategame scripted events sound cool in theory, but in practice it is mildly irritating the first time and just a nuisance in concurrent playthroughs. This is especially true for something as boring as just throwing doomstacks at the player.

In a game where the outcomes can be so different in the lategame, having a more of less unchanging constant be inserted into the campaign at some future date is just silly and ruins the dynamic fun of the game. In native expansion it was just a spam of high level units you had to grind in dozens of boring sweaty battles, with an anticlimactic end where you just whittle down their armies.
Similarly in mediaeval 2 Total War, The Mongols were just an annoyance in the late game and you could easily predict where there were going to come from and what they were going to do, no matter how much the map had changed. The factions they were supposed to threaten like Russia and the Turks would already have enough control over the region to put them down almost straight away.
It just feels really silly that you're playing this game where any faction can rise to ascendance, but for some reason the same guys invade in every single campaign at around the same time, and you can't stop them. Randomising the dates just makes it even worse because it gives you even less control over whether you campaign is going to be ruined or not.

In my opinion a much more dynamic way of making the late game challenging is to introduce new mechanics. This is how most linear games do it as well, for example in the new God of War game you only get the iconic wrist blade things about halfway into the game and it completely changes the combat. You should be giving the player and the AI different tools, not just throw a bunch more enemies at them.
 
Kentucky James VII said:
Hell no. Lategame scripted events sound cool in theory, but in practice it is mildly irritating the first time and just a nuisance in concurrent playthroughs. This is especially true for something as boring as just throwing doomstacks at the player.

In a game where the outcomes can be so different in the lategame, having a more of less unchanging constant be inserted into the campaign at some future date is just silly and ruins the dynamic fun of the game. In native expansion it was just a spam of high level units you had to grind in dozens of boring sweaty battles, with an anticlimactic end where you just whittle down their armies.
Similarly in mediaeval 2 Total War, The Mongols were just an annoyance in the late game and you could easily predict where there were going to come from and what they were going to do, no matter how much the map had changed. The factions they were supposed to threaten like Russia and the Turks would already have enough control over the region to put them down almost straight away.
It just feels really silly that you're playing this game where any faction can rise to ascendance, but for some reason the same guys invade in every single campaign at around the same time, and you can't stop them. Randomising the dates just makes it even worse because it gives you even less control over whether you campaign is going to be ruined or not.

In my opinion a much more dynamic way of making the late game challenging is to introduce new mechanics. This is how most linear games do it as well, for example in the new God of War game you only get the iconic wrist blade things about halfway into the game and it completely changes the combat. You should be giving the player and the AI different tools, not just throw a bunch more enemies at them.
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+ campaign options menu

Those are elocubrations that arise from the debate, however being optional I don't see what detriment it can do to the playable experience.
On the other hand, when you talk about challenge in the late game, what additional mechanics would you have in mind (in general lines)?
 
Terco_Viejo said:
On the other hand, when you talk about challenge in the late game, what additional mechanics would you have in mind (in general lines)?
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I would like there to be an overall faction and town management progression rather than just player and NPC progression. A faction on day 1 has the same tools it has on day 1000. Nothing changes except the borders. Here are some examples of things I think could work:

1. As the calradian empire factions lose core settlements, the factions that captured them are allowed to build more and more of the buildings, allowing them to go toe to toe with the empire who would start off a bit stronger. Losing core settlements would be a big deal and would "advance" the campaign.

2. Factions start off mostly decentralised and not really able to project all their power, and as time goes on they consolidate the clans and become more like a kingdom. An extreme version: every clan starts as an individual faction with a non-aggression pact with some (not all) of their same-culture neighbours.

3. Populations increase over time giving you more resources in shops, more recruits, more settlements and fewer places to hide. New parties like local patrols start appearing as factions become more organised, and the likelyhood that you get caught by people who dont like you increases dramatically.

Just something to look forward to, a reason to keep playing after you've fought your first big battle.
 
+1 to invasion thing. If you say it is too hard. Maybe made something like an event, a huge army from a random faction came. Or a huge invasion army, like 3000 troops just wandering around, raiding Villages taking cities etc. They should be enemies with every faction. But you have to reduce their food consumption. Maybe something like the black ship event in Shogun 2, or like White walker invasion in AWOIAF Warband mod. It will be much better if you can make something big, like with extra playable lands or an actual invasion. But a huge army that wanders around can be good too
 
Kentucky James VII said:
I would like there to be an overall faction and town management progression rather than just player and NPC progression. A faction on day 1 has the same tools it has on day 1000. Nothing changes except the borders. Here are some examples of things I think could work:

1. As the calradian empire factions lose core settlements, the factions that captured them are allowed to build more and more of the buildings, allowing them to go toe to toe with the empire who would start off a bit stronger. Losing core settlements would be a big deal and would "advance" the campaign.

2. Factions start off mostly decentralised and not really able to project all their power, and as time goes on they consolidate the clans and become more like a kingdom. An extreme version: every clan starts as an individual faction with a non-aggression pact with some (not all) of their same-culture neighbours.

3. Populations increase over time giving you more resources in shops, more recruits, more settlements and fewer places to hide. New parties like local patrols start appearing as factions become more organised, and the likelyhood that you get caught by people who dont like you increases dramatically.

Just something to look forward to, a reason to keep playing after you've fought your first big battle.
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No doubt this would greatly enhance the playable experience. As a result of what you said, there are a very 2 interesting mods that I would like to see implemented in the Native (Separatism + Revolutions)
 
No...wouldn't feel like an Mount and blade game even if it would be cool if someone made a story about how/why the factions split up in to war bands story later on as an finisher...
 
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endgame boss crises ... copycats.

You can basically follow how empire ends, khuzaits end up beaten by khergits, Vlandia turns to Swadia, Greens turn to Rhodoks, even though it would be more fitting for vlands to make both.(or former imperials) Or greens disappear by subjugation. Sturgia turns to Nordia and Vaegiria. I forget about the yellow ones name.

And you can have units use updated gear, like after each 25 years :smile:) to signify changes in technology. With all that stuff, you can have an invasion by a 'conspiracy', a horde army conquering, making others their own.

The current pace of how fast castles fall, cities, factions, how they dont really get to rebuild ? Warband would take place just in 20 years at best :smile:

Some armor is way too much into the future and some very much into the past.

You could invite a new nation to your lands too if you have too ffew folks, even build new cities and castles.
 
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