Diplomacy Developments

Revenant342 · Aug 27, 2020

If a lot of these calculations are based on total strength, that may also be helping Khuzait because they tend to punch far above their weight on paper for a variety of reasons, and as such seem to take far less total losses than other factions over the course of the war. My feeling is it goes beyond simply their cavalry combat bonus for simulations and has a lot to do with their party speed.

Since they can almost always outrun other faction's armies, they have the initiative in every engagement. Compared to other factions, they're far less likely to end up in losing fights because they almost always have the speed to get away from a superior force, and almost always have the speed to catch an inferior one. Add that to the simulation bonus from cavalry and other advantages we've talked about, and they rarely get into fights they can't win, and usually win big in the fights they take. Pretty much the only time I see them lose is when they pick a fight with a weaker enemy, but reinforcements show up during the fight. Aside from that, they're almost always the attacker and almost always win.

The speed also gives them a big economic advantage when it comes to the village raiding game. Their villages tend to be safer because lone enemy parties venturing into their territory to raid usually get picked off pretty quickly for the reasons I mentioned already. On the reverse side, raiding enemy villages tends to be very safe for them because they generally have enough base speed to get away if an enemy party interrupts them while raiding, even with the Disorganized malus and are free to try again somewhere else. So every time they get into a war, you very quickly see a line of burned villages spreading all the way across the enemy kingdom, resulting in big penalties for enemy cities and castles, while they might lose a village or two here and there but their own lands generally stay pretty safe.

They also seem to be successful in sieges more frequently than other factions. I'm not sure if this is a result of the Cav combat bonus applying in siege battles also (don't know if it does, but I do know that it shouldn't if it does), or just because pretty much every enemy garrison is starving for weeks before they get there. Could even be both.

Lusitani 5th Empire · Aug 27, 2020

Is it possible to have the kingdoms sub-divided by regions (only in code), or maybe by Lord settlements, in order to measure each Lord contribution to the war, for better balancing?

Blood Gryphon · Aug 27, 2020

First caravan out and to my surprise there is a map flag for it, I thought it was just armies. This makes me so happy.

皮w蛋 · Aug 27, 2020

Revenant342 said:
If a lot of these calculations are based on total strength, that may also be helping Khuzait because they tend to punch far above their weight on paper for a variety of reasons, and as such seem to take far less total losses than other factions over the course of the war. My feeling is it goes beyond simply their cavalry combat bonus for simulations and has a lot to do with their party speed.

Since they can almost always outrun other faction's armies, they have the initiative in every engagement. Compared to other factions, they're far less likely to end up in losing fights because they almost always have the speed to get away from a superior force, and almost always have the speed to catch an inferior one. Add that to the simulation bonus from cavalry and other advantages we've talked about, and they rarely get into fights they can't win, and usually win big in the fights they take. Pretty much the only time I see them lose is when they pick a fight with a weaker enemy, but reinforcements show up during the fight. Aside from that, they're almost always the attacker and almost always win.

The speed also gives them a big economic advantage when it comes to the village raiding game. Their villages tend to be safer because lone enemy parties venturing into their territory to raid usually get picked off pretty quickly for the reasons I mentioned already. On the reverse side, raiding enemy villages tends to be very safe for them because they generally have enough base speed to get away if an enemy party interrupts them while raiding, even with the Disorganized malus and are free to try again somewhere else. So every time they get into a war, you very quickly see a line of burned villages spreading all the way across the enemy kingdom, resulting in big penalties for enemy cities and castles, while they might lose a village or two here and there but their own lands generally stay pretty safe.

They also seem to be successful in sieges more frequently than other factions. I'm not sure if this is a result of the Cav combat bonus applying in siege battles also (don't know if it does, but I do know that it shouldn't if it does), or just because pretty much every enemy garrison is starving for weeks before they get there. Could even be both.

I heard:
When attacking a city, the cavalry will also increase their combat effectiveness in the calculation of the battle between AI, which is 1.2 as usual.

Revenant342 · Aug 27, 2020

That could be pretty bad if it's the case, especially with besiegers being more aggressive and likely to assault in the new patch.

Thought of a few other follow-on consequences of the stuff I'd previously mentioned: Khuzaits always seem to have more elite troops than anybody, I almost never see them rolling with 200+ recruits in an army and I'd imagine that's because they can run from unfavorable fights and rarely get party-wiped. So eventually they're bringing high-tier armies against peasant stacks, which massively builds on the advantages they already have.

The other thing I thought of goes back to tactics: Even if their starting party Lords don't have a massive tactics advantage over other factions, their Lords rarely get captured. I'm sure we've all experienced a long war where a significant number of enemy Lords get captured so they start sending out their B-team to lead armies, including lots of women with zero tactics skill.

So as time goes on the Khuzaits not only have their 20% cavalry combat bonus and speed advantage, they're also leading veteran armies against peasant mobs led by inferior commanders.

Sgtskywalk · Aug 27, 2020

That's one long (or short?) peace treaty with Aserai!

Blood Gryphon · Aug 27, 2020

Sgtskywalk said:
That's one long (or short?) peace treaty with Aserai!

Are you mistaking the -1900d for days? It means denars (the currency) and is the daily tribute. The peace lasts until one of you declare war

Sgtskywalk · Aug 27, 2020

Blood Gryphon said:
Are you mistaking the -1900d for days? It means denars (the currency) and is the daily tribute. The peace lasts until one of you declare war

Oops ?

Revenant342 · Aug 27, 2020

Love that factions aren't getting into 5-year-long Forever Wars with 4 opponents anymore, but it may have gone a bit too far in the other direction, lol. Lot of 1-2 day wars happening and ending before any real fighting for example, and it makes Mercenary work really unpredictable and annoying.

So far by Winter of 1084, Vlandia and Sturgia have been at war and made peace three times already. Southern Empire made peace with Aserai, then declared war on Western Empire. Aserai declared war on Battania, who immediately made peace with Western Empire... then Aserai also made peace with Battania, all in less than a day.

Khuzait took Amprela from Northern Empire who quickly took it back, then Khuzait made peace with Northern Empire while sieging Amprela back again.

Southern Empire made peace with Western Empire a few days after declaring war, immediately declared war on Northern Empire and besieged then assaulted Myzea. They then made peace with Northern Empire while actively assaulting Myzea and looking like they were winning.

A lot of these wars aren't lasting long enough for the factions to really even start attacking each other and I'm imagining their troops just constantly running back and forth from one side of their territory to the other. So maybe there should be a minimum length of time before seeking peace so there's time for some actual combat.

I also think a faction that's currently besieging another faction's settlement should be unwilling to make peace until the siege is over unless there's some *very* heavy tribute involved, and that goes double for an active assault. I've got the image of a guy waving his arms and shouting "Wait, guys! Come back! The war's over!!!" from the bottom of a siege ladder, lol.

Still, definitely a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work!

musashii89 · Aug 27, 2020

mexxico said:
As some of you know after your requests I have been working on war & peace votings for last one and half week. First 2-3 days I examined codes to understand what is going on then changed several parts and then tested new codes and changed again according to results of these tests. There will be several developments at these issues. I will give you some information about these. In several posts I already gave some information however it is better to collect all here now and give more details. All these developments will be ready at 1.5.1.

Hard to put this without it sounding like a personal attack, but how is it that modders are better able to balance this game then the combined patches released so far?

mexxico said:
Anyway I have control over these codes now and will follow your feedbacks.

What is the actual intent here? Most of the 'fixes' being implemented are aimed at very minor issues instead of the glaring ones in how AI are coded/balanced. The problem: AI have stupid, repetitive and predictable code which means every fight fits a standard pattern. As such this game is tedious and only gets extensive play time with the addition of mods, or a combination of player creativity and masochism (how outnumbered can I still win).
Could you PLEASE ask your supervisor to go start hiring people submitting popular mods online? All the devs on these forums seem to have no intended direction with this game. You need people who play this game, and modders have proven to be better adept at balancing this game then devs have accomplished with patches.
This issue was largely resolved by adding a single mod, 'revolutions', to ensure the most militant AI factions (khuzait, vlandia and aserai) do not dominate every.single.game.
As I am not a fan of previous titles I have to ask, were these problems not encountered and overcome then? Arent there a dozen different predecessors with mods and community backing?

The Bannerlord development strategy is baffling. Please copy early World of Warcraft developement. Players add mods to make the game better, universally used mods get added to the game.

mexxico · Aug 27, 2020

Revenant342 said:
I also think a faction that's currently besieging another faction's settlement should be unwilling to make peace until the siege is over unless there's some *very* heavy tribute involved, and that goes double for an active assault. I've got the image of a guy waving his arms and shouting "Wait, guys! Come back! The war's over!!!" from the bottom of a siege ladder, lol.

Yes good point. This should be included.

About short wars, I know they should be less. I will try to reduce them by time with adjustments.

Stromming · Aug 27, 2020

Okay so I finished checking the encyclopedia and this is what I found. Tables made using Pivot Table in Excel so excuse the way it looks.

Conclusions
Sturgia is surrounded by factions stronger than themselves when it comes to tactic skills. Sturgia has more party leaders, but 11% of them are useless in 1v1 battles with their tactic skill of 0. Two of their most common enemies field a lot more horses which adds to the problem.

Northern Empire is among the weakest factions tactic wise and also has the fewest amount of party leaders which limits their army severely.

Sum of tactic skill per faction based on current amount of party leaders

Party Leader	y

Faction	Sum of Tactics
Aserai	2300
Battania	2280
Khuzait	2500
Northern Empire	2200
Southern Empire	2120
Sturgia	2380
Vlandia	2680
Western Empire	2920
Grand Total	19380

Count of how many party leaders per faction and what tactic skill they have

Party Leader	y

Count of Noble	Column Labels
Tactic Skill	Aserai	Battania	Khuzait	Northern Empire	Southern Empire	Sturgia	Vlandia	Western Empire	Grand Total
60	1	2		1	2	2	3	3	14
80	3	4	5	3	5	3	6	3	32
100	4	3	9	2	6	11	5	1	41
120	7	2	5	3	6	3	3	7	36
140	2	7	3	6	2	4	6	6	36
160	3	2		2			2	2	11
180			1	1					2
200								2	2
0	1	1		1	3	3			9
Grand Total	21	21	23	19	24	26	25	24	183

Sum of tactic skill per faction based on reserve party leaders (nobles with tactic skill but not currently leading a party)

Party Leader	n

Row Labels	Sum of Tactics
Aserai	140
Battania	180
Khuzait	100
Northern Empire
Southern Empire	140
Sturgia	100
Vlandia	380
Western Empire
Grand Total	1040

Stromming · Aug 27, 2020

Noble	Type	Culture	Party Leader	Tactics	Steward
Abagai	Noble	Khuzait	y	100
Achaku	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	60
Adalindis	Noble	Vlandia	n	60
Adaltrud	Noble	Vlandia	n		50
Akrum	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	60
Alary	Noble	Vlandia	y	100	122
Aldric	Noble	Vlandia	y	60
Alijin	Noble	Khuzait	n		102
Alvar	Noble	Sturgia	Y	100	60
Alwith	Noble	Vlandia	n		101
Amalgun	Noble	Vlandia	y	100	100
Amorcon	Noble	Vlandia	y	60	102
Anat	Noble	Khuzait	n		141
Andruta	Noble	Sturgia	N		62
Anstruda	Noble	Vlandia	n		62
Apolanea	Noble	Sturgia	y	60
Arthamund	Noble	Vlandia	y	60
Asela	Noble	Vlandia	n		121
Asta	Noble	Sturgia	n		140
Bagai	Noble	Khuzait	y	120	120
Belgir	Noble	Vlandia	y	100
Bertliana	Noble	Vlandia	n		81
Bolat	Noble	Khuzait	n		60
Bortu	Noble	Khuzait	y	120	100
Bovan	Noble	Sturgia	y	0	81
Calatild	Noble	Vlandia	n	120	141
Chaghan	Noble	Khuzait	y	120	102
Chagun	Noble	Khuzait	n
Chambui	Noble	Khuzait	n		62
Derthert	Faction leader	Vlandia	y	120	181
Dracha	Noble	Sturgia	n		82
Ecarand	Noble	Vlandia	y	140	81
Elbet	Noble	Vlandia	n		141
Eleduris	Noble	Vlandia	n		61
Elthild	Noble	Vlandia	n		80
Elys	Noble	Vlandia	n		121
Erdurand	Noble	Vlandia	y	140	100
Ergene	Noble	Khuzait	n		61
Erta	Noble	Sturgia	n		142
Esachei	Noble	Khuzait	n		82
Eselen	Noble	Khuzait	n		80
Esur	Noble	Khuzait	y	140	100
Fafen	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	62
Furnhard	Noble	Vlandia	y	80	82
Galden	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	60
Godun	Noble	Sturgia	y	140	162
Gudonhelda	Noble	Vlandia	n		62
Hecard	Noble	Vlandia	y	140	101
Hurunag	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	62
Idrun	Noble	Sturgia	n		101
Ilatar	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	62
Ingalther	Noble	Vlandia	y	160	142
Ingeltrud	Noble	Vlandia	n		81
Ingunde	Noble	Vlandia	n
isvan	Noble	Sturgia	y	80	61
Izdenka	Noble	Sturgia	n		100
Jigur	Noble	Khuzait	n
Kanujan	Noble	Khuzait	y	180	120
Khada	Noble	Khuzait	y	80
Khorijin	Noble	Khuzait	n		82
Kinteg	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	60
Kisha	Noble	Sturgia	n		62
Korte	Noble	Khuzait	n		122
Lasand	Noble	Vlandia	y	80
Lashonek	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	62
Lek	Noble	Sturgia	y	140	162
Liena	Noble	Vlandia	y	160	140
Lietgardis	Noble	Vlandia	n		60
Lilzha	Noble	Sturgia	n
Lucand	Noble	Vlandia	y	140	80
Mauriana	Noble	Vlandia	n		61
Megenhelda	Noble	Vlandia	n	60	101
Mehir	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	61
Mesui	Noble	Khuzait	y	120	141
Milanka	Noble	Sturgia	n		80
Mimir	Noble	Sturgia	y	0
Mitela	Noble	Vlandia	n	60
Monchug	Faction leader	Khuzait	y	140	121
Morcon	Noble	Vlandia	y	140	102
Nayantai	Noble	Khuzait	y	80
Odofled	Noble	Vlandia	n	80	61
Olek	Noble	Sturgia	y	120	62
Oragur	Noble	Khuzait	y	120	81
Ospir	Noble	Vlandia	y	100	81
Osven	Noble	Sturgia	y	60
Peric	Noble	Vlandia	y	80	82
Philenora	Noble	Vlandia	n		121
Raganvad	Faction leader	Sturgia	y	140	120
Ratagost	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	141
Richelda	Noble	Vlandia	n		62
Romund	Noble	Vlandia	y	120	102
Rozhivol	Noble	Sturgia	y	0
Sechen	Noble	Khuzait	n		80
Servic	Noble	Vlandia	y	120	100
Siga	Noble	Sturgia	y	120	62
Silvind	Noble	Vlandia	y	100	102
Simir	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	161
Sokhatai	Noble	Khuzait	n		122
Suran	Noble	Khuzait	y	80	100
Svana	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	100
Svedorn	Noble	Sturgia	y	120	101
Taslur	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	60
Temun	Noble	Khuzait	y	80
Thomund	Noble	Vlandia	y	80	81
Tilun	Noble	Khuzait	n		101
Tovir	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	60
Tulag	Noble	Khuzait	y	80	100
Tyaska	Noble	Sturgia	n
Ulman	Noble	Khuzait	y	100	60
Unagen	Noble	Khuzait	n	100
Unthery	Noble	Vlandia	y	80	60
Urik	Noble	Sturgia	y	140	100
Valkava	Noble	Sturgia	n		101
Varmund	Noble	Vlandia	y	140	81
Vartin	Noble	Vlandia	y	80	80
Vashorki	Noble	Sturgia	y	80	101
Vidar	Noble	Sturgia	y	80	100
Vitomira	Noble	Sturgia	n		62
Vyldur	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	80
Yachana	Noble	Sturgia	n		81
Yana	Noble	Khuzait	y	140	142
Yorig	Noble	Sturgia	y	100
Zavarena	Noble	Sturgia	n
Zheneva	Noble	Sturgia	y	100	82
Zlatka	Noble	Sturgia	n	100
Zorika	Noble	Sturgia	n		60
Zorina	Noble	Sturgia	n		82
Garios	Faction leader	Western Empire	y	200	141
Lucon	Faction leader	Northern Empire	y	160	141
Rhagaea	Faction leader	Southern Empire	y	100	142
Abalytos	Noble	Southern Empire	y	120	121
Achios	Noble	Western Empire	y	160	122
Adrichea	Noble	Northern Empire	n		101
Agnala	Noble	Western Empire	n		82
Alcaea	Noble	Battania	n		162
Altenos	Noble	Western Empire	y	140	122
Alympia	Noble	Southern Empire	n
Amaliana	Noble	Northern Empire	n		60
Amenon	Noble	Western Empire	y	100	60
Andros	Noble	Northern Empire	y	80	82
Apolytea	Noble	Northern Empire	n		81
Apys	Noble	Western Empire	y	80	80
Arcor	Noble	Northern Empire	y	140	122
Areliana	Noble	Southern Empire	n
Arion	Noble	Northern Empire	y	140	120
Arytha	Noble	Western Empire	n		61
Ascyron	Noble	Northern Empire	y	120	81
Baranor	Noble	Southern Empire	y	100	181
Belithor	Noble	Northern Empire	y	120	120
Casinon	Noble	Western Empire	y	60
Catella	Noble	Western Empire	n		122
Chalia	Noble	Northern Empire	n		120
Chason	Noble	Northern Empire	y	120	122
Constalia	Noble	Southern Empire	n		100
Crotor	Noble	Western Empire	y	200	81
Debana	Noble	Southern Empire	n		102
Decantia	Noble	Northern Empire	n		82
Desporion	Noble	Western Empire	y	120	100
Encurion	Noble	Northern Empire	y	80	81
Eodisia	Noble	Northern Empire	n		140
Epipheria	Noble	Northern Empire	y	0
Eronyx	Noble	Western Empire	y	120
Eutropios	Noble	Southern Empire	y	80
Germana	Noble	Southern Empire	n	60	81
Gyphor	Noble	Northern Empire	y	140	100
Honoratus	Noble	Southern Empire	y	60
Hylasiana	Noble	Northern Empire	n		140
Ira	Noble	Southern Empire	y	100
Jastion	Noble	Northern Empire	y	60	80
Jathea	Noble	Southern Empire	n		62
Joron	Noble	Southern Empire	y	80	100
Justina	Noble	Southern Empire	n		62
Justina	Noble	Northern Empire	n		60
Lantanor	Noble	Northern Empire	y	160	100
Leontia	Noble	Northern Empire	n		101
Lysica	Noble	Western Empire	y	140	122
Manteos	Noble	Northern Empire	y	140	122
Martira	Noble	Southern Empire	n
Megethia	Noble	Southern Empire	n		102
Melkea	Noble	Western Empire	n		122
Meritor	Noble	Western Empire	y	160	101
Milos	Noble	Western Empire	y	120	80
Mina	Noble	Southern Empire	n
Minarvina	Noble	Western Empire	n		100
Miron	Noble	Northern Empire	y	100	101
Nadea	Noble	Western Empire	y	120	82
Nemos	Noble	Western Empire	y	140	120
Nereida	Noble	Western Empire	n
Nicasor	Noble	Northern Empire	y	180	121
Niphon	Noble	Southern Empire	y	120	120
Obron	Noble	Southern Empire	y	60	82
Olypos	Noble	Northern Empire	y	140	142
Oros	Noble	Southern Empire	y	80	101
Ovagos	Noble	Western Empire	y	120	122
Panalea	Noble	Northern Empire	n		141
Patyr	Noble	Southern Empire	y	80	61
Penton	Noble	Northern Empire	y	100	60
Phadon	Noble	Northern Empire	y	80
Phaea	Noble	Western Empire	y	120	101
Phalarisa	Noble	Northern Empire	n		62
Pharon	Noble	Southern Empire	y	120	122
Phenoria	Noble	Northern Empire	n		161
Phostor	Noble	Western Empire	y	60	81
Popilia	Noble	Western Empire	n		82
Presciana	Noble	Northern Empire	n
Rhoda	Noble	Northern Empire	n
Sanion	Noble	Southern Empire	y	80	101
Saratis	Noble	Western Empire	y	140	181
Sejaron	Noble	Western Empire	y	140	122
Seorgys	Noble	Western Empire	y	80
Serandon	Noble	Southern Empire	y	100	81
Seranor	Noble	Southern Empire	y	100	81
Shichanis	Noble	Southern Empire	y	120	81
Silvina	Noble	Southern Empire	n		60
Sophalia	Noble	Western Empire	n		61
Sora	Noble	Northern Empire	n		161
Susada	Noble	Northern Empire	n		120
Tadeos	Noble	Western Empire	y	80	80
Tasynor	Noble	Northern Empire	y	140	101
Temion	Noble	Southern Empire	y	140	121
Tharos	Noble	Southern Empire	y	120	60
Thephilos	Noble	Western Empire	y	60
Tristania	Noble	Southern Empire	n	80	102
Turiados	Noble	Southern Empire	y	100	60
Tyliana	Noble	Northern Empire	n		101
Tynops	Noble	Western Empire	y	120	80
Ulbos	Noble	Southern Empire	y	140	80
Valaria	Noble	Southern Empire	y	0	61
Vasilia	Noble	Northern Empire	n		80
Vasilia	Noble	Southern Empire	y	0
Vendelia	Noble	Western Empire	n		82
Veneranda	Noble	Northern Empire	n		60
Verina	Noble	Southern Empire	n		62
Vipon	Noble	Western Empire	y	140	101
Viviana	Noble	Southern Empire	n		61
Zachanis	Noble	Southern Empire	y	120	122
Zena	Noble	Southern Empire	n
Zeno	Noble	Southern Empire	y	0
Zerosica	Noble	Northern Empire	n		161
Zoana	Noble	Northern Empire	n		120
Caladog	Faction leader	Battania	y	160	80
Aeron	Noble	Battania	y	160	81
Alynneth	Noble	Battania	n		60
Aradwyr	Noble	Battania	y	120	102
Beathag	Noble	Battania	y	60	81
Beitrin	Noble	Battania	y	0	80
Branoc	Noble	Battania	y	140	141
Brighan	Noble	Battania	n		101
Carfyd	Noble	Battania	y	140	81
Corein	Noble	Battania	y	140
Culharn	Noble	Battania	y	100	101
Eabyr	Noble	Battania	n		102
Eilidh	Noble	Battania	n		82
Ergeon	Noble	Battania	y	100	160
Fenegan	Noble	Battania	y	140	81
Fiarad	Noble	Battania	y	140	81
Floraidh	Noble	Battania	n	60
Liasin	Noble	Battania	n
Luichan	Noble	Battania	y	120	102
Melidir	Noble	Battania	y	80	102
Mengus	Noble	Battania	y	100	101
Muinser	Noble	Battania	y	80	80
Nywin	Noble	Battania	n	120	102
Pryndor	Noble	Battania	y	140	81
Ranaon	Noble	Battania	n		62
Rath	Noble	Battania	y	80	62
Sein	Noble	Battania	y	80	60
Seonag	Noble	Battania	n		61
Siaramus	Noble	Battania	y	140	140
Taorse	Noble	Battania	n		80
Tegan	Noble	Battania	y	60
Wythuin	Noble	Battania	n		142
Unqid	Faction leader	Aserai	y	140	140
Addas	Noble	Aserai	y	80
Adram	Noble	Aserai	y	160	141
Anidha	Noble	Aserai	n		102
Arwa	Noble	Aserai	y	120	61
Ashisa	Noble	Aserai	n		61
Awdhan	Noble	Aserai	y	160	122
Dhiyul	Noble	Aserai	y	0	80
Farina	Noble	Aserai	n		62
Farzana	Noble	Aserai	n		61
Ghuzid	Noble	Aserai	y	80	101
Hafisa	Noble	Aserai	n		102
Haqan	Noble	Aserai	y	100	61
Hashan	Noble	Aserai	y	120	100
Iyalas	Noble	Aserai	y	100	140
Jinda	Noble	Aserai	n		142
Judira	Noble	Aserai	n		81
Karith	Noble	Aserai	y	160	121
Manan	Noble	Aserai	n		60
Maraa	Noble	Aserai	n		122
Nuqar	Noble	Aserai	y	120	80
Qahin	Noble	Aserai	y	120	100
Ruma	Noble	Aserai	n		102
Salma	Noble	Aserai	n		60
Sasaitha	Noble	Aserai	n		62
Shaima	Noble	Aserai	n		60
Shimra	Noble	Aserai	n		100
Sira	Noble	Aserai	n		102
Sukayna	Noble	Aserai	n	60	61
Sulhana	Noble	Aserai	n		100
Suna	Noble	Aserai	n		60
Suruq	Noble	Aserai	y	120	101
Tais	Noble	Aserai	y	80	122
Talas	Noble	Aserai	y	100	102
Tariq	Noble	Aserai	y	100	61
Thamza	Noble	Aserai	y	140	102
Ukhai	Noble	Aserai	y	120	100
Usair	Noble	Aserai	y	120	121
Yamina	Noble	Aserai	n	80	62
Zuad	Noble	Aserai	y	60
Zulaika	Noble	Aserai	n

geala · Aug 27, 2020

Bannerman Man said:
...

Two thoughts on that:

The number/percentage of troops you sacrifice is partially based on the tactics skill. The higher the skill level the fewer troops that are sacrificed. If the number of troops that are sacrificed is acceptable even without high tactics, then that reduces the incentive for developing your tactics skill because the reward is less meaningful.

You are gaining a large advantage by breaking into a besieged settlement. The fortifications/walls are a force multiplier. The question you should be asking yourself in this situation is, "will I lose fewer troops by breaking into the settlement and defending from the inside than if I just attack the besiegers from the outside without the advantage of the walls?" If you find that the benefit of breaking into a settlement always outweighs the benefit of attacking outright without sacrificing troops, then there is no choice to be made, and the correct thing to do is always breaking in. That makes the mechanic less meaningful, which is why balance is important. Sacrificing 20-30% of your troops is really not that steep of a penalty if the fortification advantage you gain over the attackers is 2-3x.

...

What you said about Tactics is reasonable, but I found the losses still relatively high for the early stage, small troop number (~90, if you lose 30 of them, that's bad) and for my taste, relatively high Tactics. It was 80 Tactics or so, but on a companion and I'm not sure wether that counted, the player was about 40 or so. Perhaps it also was before the reduction of the loss rate to which Blood Gryphon hinted.

To the benefit of sneaking in, I would concur if being the defender would be advantageous. My experiences hint to the contrary, the AI rushes the defences with concentrated power while the defenders are spread to a lot of useless areas and get easily overpowered. Maybe also that got better in 1.5.0 before which I stopped playing.

I think 1.5.1 should be the point to get in again for me, sounds good enough.

whentheragequithappens · Aug 27, 2020

Year 1089, NE gone, Sturgia has 1 town 2 castles, battana and khuzait dominates, SE and vlandia expanded few settlements , aserai and WE reduced few settlements. So far its way more better, nice tweaks. Now game need revolts, alliences, civil wars. In realism this much expanded nomad nation probably shared between brothers peacefully or with civil wars.

mexxico · Aug 27, 2020

whentheragequithappens said:
Year 1089, NE gone, Sturgia has 1 town 2 castles, battana and khuzait dominates, SE and vlandia expanded few settlements , aserai and WE reduced few settlements. So far its way more better, nice tweaks. Now game need revolts, alliences, civil wars. In realism this much expanded nomad nation probably shared between brothers peacefully or with civil wars.

Thanks for feedback. Yes this was only a small initial step. We need more features & tweaks to balance world. Also it is clear Khuzait are way more OP compared to others. We should find reasons and make them balanced.

sabatonsky · Aug 27, 2020

mexxico said:
Thanks for feedback. Yes this was only a small initial step. We need more features & tweaks to balance world. Also it is clear Khuzait are way more OP compared to others. We should find reasons and make them balanced.

Id start with cities, in terms of khuzait.... they seam to be a wee bit too prosperous. and also their army compositions: mostly mounted archers to go with cavalery. waaaay too good

Apocal · Aug 27, 2020

mexxico said:
Thanks for feedback. Yes this was only a small initial step. We need more features & tweaks to balance world. Also it is clear Khuzait are way more OP compared to others. We should find reasons and make them balanced.

More feedback: (strict observation) End of Autumn 1090
The NE has been wiped out due to a series of bad wars, the SE grew by one town Sturgia has the same net number of towns, Vlandia has the same starting towns, the WE has been reduced to one town, the Khuzaits gained five towns, the Battanians gained six towns. Savegame available if you want to examine world state.
tl;dr pic:

Dabos37 · Aug 27, 2020

Concerning Khuzaits being OP, this is what I have seen so far since the release:

- Khuzaits villages get rarely raided, they have a great map position and are able to defend their lands pretty well.
- Khuzaits have faster armies which help them to pick favorable battles more effectively.
- The simulated battles bonus for cav is totally in Khuzaits favor.
- Khuzaits are pretty “pacifist” and just fight one battle at the same time most of the time, while their main enemies (NE and Sturgia) are usually involved in other wars continuosly (this probably has changed a bit in 1.5.1).
- NE is a weaker faction than Khuzaits since day 1, so Khuzaits start with an advantage over them at the beginning.

Khuzaits have tons of advantages over Sturgia and NE and the result is not surprising for me, Khuzaits are pretty OP because they have everything in their favor.

Worlok · Aug 27, 2020

Worlok said:
It seems right now (patch 26/ there is a difference of peace support in diplomacy view and actual voting. The first picture shows voting was suggested (without paying tribute) and the support was 75% against making peace. When I checked the same time in diplomacy view it showed support for peace 69%. So it should have succeeded...

It looks pretty good for my campaign.

Previously on Bannerlord season 1.5.0:
In my earlier post (Vassal of Sturgia) I was complaining about Ragavand refusing to make peace with Battania (mistake). I joined as Vassal when Sturgia was in war with Battania and NE. I focused on the border of Sturgia - Battania so we expanded our territory where I received my first fief (Kranirog Castle). We expanded more into Battania territory. When we got stronger in power Vlandia declared war.
With Vlandia declaring war as the 3rd faction it started to go wrong. After few days when Vlandia declared war, we had peace decision to make for Battania ( which was rejected by Ragavand and few more). Note - this should have been accepted even though Battania was weaker as Sturgia at that moment. We were over powered so armies were destroyed and 1 castles taken by Vlandia and 1 castle and Varcheg taken by Battania.
Ragavand lost too much influence and was captured when the peace decesion was approved for Battania but of course few days after (when Vlandia started to loose) the Khuzaits declared war. All was lost because I could not help the AI on the other end of the map (Tyal). So Khuzaits were taking castles / towns.
Since I could not protect my castles and help on the other end with Khuzaits I decided to compensate the lost fiefs by taking Vlandian fiefs. With Sturgia and Battania hitting on Vlandia they lost many fiefs and decreased in power. Luckily after Khuzaits took Tyal, Sibir and few more castles the peace was made. That is where Battania declared war again and the 1.5.1 patch was released.

Recently on Bannerlord season 1.5.1:
With wars on Battania and Vlandia (NE, they were busy with Khuzaits) I was able to protect our fiefs (without me the Sturgian AI would be eaten). Battania accepted peace with tribute. After Vlandia lost many battles (and few Lords died in the battles) they made peace too. (NE made peace sometime during war with Battania and Vlandia, but they did not attack us too much).
So now there is peace

I wonder how long it will last...

Maybe I will try to reload the save and examine in details after 1.5.1 release...

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