Diplomacy Developments

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Itisausername said:
Hello oh great warriors i have come from a buggy game an unscreenshotabble game (fixed but i can't bother losing all my games again lol) a modified game which somehow almost broke my pc because apparently WHY NOT i am going to share my experiences with words and not with pictures as uhm uhm crash pc new cpu

Basically i modufied the game by the smallest amount but it broke the game to the point of crashing every 10 minutes if you listen to my words though i changed it so all cav has -5% in sieges and -2% on forests which had significant impact on snowballing im not the most experienced C# coder so probably because of that but in the 2 games i did with these changes and here are the resu

Never again aka game 1:
The khuzaits started by not doing much actually and got overrun by sturgia NE SE and AS and got wiped so i ended it in a sucsess.

Never again 2 electric boogaloo aka game 2:
This is the one that corrupted all myvsaves anyway the khuzait start by taking amprela and myzea then stagnate NE retajes myzea sturgia does surprisingly well taking ostican and rovalt and the sorrunding castles from vlandia later on taking the map when the game ended in 1162 sturgia then started destroying the khuzait taking baltakhand and chaikand after this overtaking NE in war wiping them and being stuck in a long stagnation agains the southern kingdoms until making a breakthrough after taking lycaron from SE leading them to conquer most of the middle of southern empire after this not much else interesting happened execpt just sturgia taking the continent


As i said never do this without proper experience or you will be stuck in a computer seat 24/7 and if you do this be ready as you will lose every save and be careful because any more then 5 clicks means death aka crash other then that i would think if this change was made it could stop khuzait snowballing
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Interesting find. Thanks for sharing and sorry about the computer troubles... And also, thanks for breaking up the text and using some punctuation. Not trying to make fun. I think you have some good input and it is much better when you break it up for us like this.

I like the idea of a forest penalty for khuzait. They are steppe nomads after all, so it makes sense they would be out of their element there. Also, horses in general are kind of out of their element there. Khuzaits are easier to fight in forest maps since the cav and HA have a knack for running into trees lol.
 
NLCRich said:
Interesting find. Thanks for sharing and sorry about the computer troubles... And also, thanks for breaking up the text and using some punctuation. Not trying to make fun. I think you have some good input and it is much better when you break it up for us like this.

I like the idea of a forest penalty for khuzait. They are steppe nomads after all, so it makes sense they would be out of their element there. Also, horses in general are kind of out of their element there. Khuzaits are easier to fight in forest maps since the cav and HA have a knack for running into trees lol.
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Yeah no problem i like to actually be understood when i make a serious post and not replying to bait.
Although i hope they make it easier to make changes like this although it might have something to do with my pc

I thought of these and implemeted them in like 6 hours and a few lines of code and a few other things

I suggest it here since hopefully a dev can see it hopefully mexxico although i dont know if he is the person i should be addressing he could probably do a better job
 
NLCRich said:
I like the idea of a forest penalty for khuzait. They are steppe nomads after all, so it makes sense they would be out of their element there. Also, horses in general are kind of out of their element there. Khuzaits are easier to fight in forest maps since the cav and HA have a knack for running into trees lol.
Click to expand...

What are you referring to here -is this something intended for the Auto-Calc system? Also map AI would need even a rudimentary understanding of the terrain they sit atop of before engaging or not if a penalty or bonus applies there
 
A suggestion less easy to raise armies if there is been sequencial wars, or even too much banditry, make possible to bandits in great goups of 30 or 40 raid villages will be nice, cutting the recruits from the nobles
 
froggyluv said:
What are you referring to here -is this something intended for the Auto-Calc system? Also map AI would need even a rudimentary understanding of the terrain they sit atop of before engaging or not if a penalty or bonus applies there
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To be honest I am not 100% sure how @Itisausername applied it. I was thinking a map speed penalty in forests.
 
Apocal said:
Their personality is accounted for somewhat in their decision making (aggressiveness). You'll just never notice because it isn't like anyone is following around lords everywhere they go to see the differences.
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For example there is a Battanian lord that raids my villages every time we are in war. I don't know if the reason is "his characteristics" or him living close to me or the -100 relation i have with him.
 
grunwalder01 said:
For example there is a Battanian lord that raids my villages every time we are in war. I don't know if the reason is "his characteristics" or him living close to me or the -100 relation i have with him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there is no way to tell, although I haven't seen anything (or didn't understand what I was looking at, heh) that suggest relations play a part in their targets.

It would be better if they would tell you (or you could ask him) why he is doing a particular thing.

  • "As a general war strategy, since I'm not in an army."
  • "To reduce your kingdom's wealth and strength."
  • "I want to damage/capture your personal holdings."
  • "Because I'm an *******."
 
Apocal said:
Yeah, there is no way to tell, although I haven't seen anything (or didn't understand what I was looking at, heh) that suggest relations play a part in their targets.

It would be better if they would tell you (or you could ask him) why he is doing a particular thing.

  • "As a general war strategy, since I'm not in an army."
  • "To reduce your kingdom's wealth and strength."
  • "I want to damage/capture your personal holdings."
  • "Because I'm an *******."
Click to expand...
I wish there would be some more intelligent AI in the background for this.

I personally think it's as stupid as "we are at war - next available target - attack". No matter if it is worth of it. No matter if he/she is destroyed during raid, i.e. I many times saw a party continue the village raid even when a lot bigger party was comming to protect.
This is what I still miss in party tactic AI. To see they are making reasonable decisions.

Good thing is I started to see this in peace/war diplomacy after maxxicos fixes.

Another thing I do not understand why friendly parties do not join fights. Many times they are close enough when I attack an enemy party. Whith the friendly party near we would outnumber them. Othervise I am outnumbered by 20-30.
When the same happens with AI parties even such parties join the fight which are twice as far.
 
All of these ideas sound super cool, and I’d love to see them implemented someday.

A much simpler fix, though, might just be a visible kingdom to kingdom relations system like the current interpersonal-100 to +100 relations score system. Then, likelihood to declare war or sue for peace would come from a formula factoring in kingdom relations, relative strength, casualties inflicted, and time elapsed since last change in war state.

Well, anyway, off to go start some s*** with the Aserai by beating up on some random peasants. ?
 
TheShermanator said:
All of these ideas sound super cool, and I’d love to see them implemented someday.

A much simpler fix, though, might just be a visible kingdom to kingdom relations system like the current interpersonal-100 to +100 relations score system. Then, likelihood to declare war or sue for peace would come from a formula factoring in kingdom relations, relative strength, casualties inflicted, and time elapsed since last change in war state.

Well, anyway, off to go start some s*** with the Aserai by beating up on some random peasants. ?
Click to expand...
Agree wholeheartedly with this. Make It toggleable or those relationship bar can be clicked and we will be given the more detailed explanation/formula/any stuff that is used for the calculation.
This make me wonder what if TW do this in economy aspect too. Make us the players can see the breakdown how our caravan/workshops got their revenue. It may help players to understand why their investment isn't working. I think common complains here about workshops or caravan is because players doesn't really know the buying/selling price of the resources that workshops/caravan do. Give us detailed breakdown of that, aand I believe people will know if it's bugged or it is working as intended
 
Quick update: My faction will not stay at war with anyone! (Vassal playthrough with Khuzaits.) I propose war and it gets voted down (predictable given single digit foretasted support). I do the traditional peasant attack to force war, and my faction votes for peace immediately. Playthrough over, I guess?
 
TheShermanator said:
Quick update: My faction will not stay at war with anyone! (Vassal playthrough with Khuzaits.) I propose war and it gets voted down (predictable given single digit foretasted support). I do the traditional peasant attack to force war, and my faction votes for peace immediately. Playthrough over, I guess?
Click to expand...
If they are already at 1 war thats all they will fight until they are powerful enough to fight two. The khuzaits have been contained. Make peace with the first war to get a different war going
 
Blood Gryphon said:
If they are already at 1 war thats all they will fight until they are powerful enough to fight two. The khuzaits have been contained. Make peace with the first war to get a different war going
Click to expand...

Thanks! But also that sucks. Khuzaits have 2 popular wars with factions from which we have already taken all fiefs. Votes to make peace with both factions fail every month or so. Hmm...
 
TheShermanator said:
Thanks! But also that sucks. Khuzaits have 2 popular wars with factions from which we have already taken all fiefs. Votes to make peace with both factions fail every month or so. Hmm...
Click to expand...
Make some save games to hang on to, that might be something they want to look at.

just to make sure I’m understanding right, the Khuzait are stuck in 2 wars with essentially dead factions and thus can’t fight the remaining factions?

Idk if there is a hard limit but it seems like it should be based more on strength, so if 2 factions are basically dead you can get into a third
 
Blood Gryphon said:
Make some save games to hang on to, that might be something they want to look at.

just to make sure I’m understanding right, the Khuzait are stuck in 2 wars with essentially dead factions and thus can’t fight the remaining factions?

Idk if there is a hard limit but it seems like it should be based more on strength, so if 2 factions are basically dead you can get into a third
Click to expand...

Correct. This is my first play-through since 1.4 (so May 2020), so I would have expected that, when the zombie factions got super weak with no fiefs, the clans would defect at a high rate until the faction vanished (like they used to do). This does not seem to be happening here (I gather this is a balance change to mitigate against snowballing?) I've seen only 4 total clan defections from 3 hollowed-out, fief-less factions, and my faction will not make peace with 2 of those 3 zombie factions.
 
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