you cannot avoid "OP LULZ" late game in Warband, in Viking Conquest, in M&B base, and now, in Bannerlord. Those nerfs serve the single purpose of balancing late game, meaning that by doing it, they are murdering the progress as well as the joy of playing early to mid game. This is a mistake, most commonly seen preached by people who do not understand the "OCR" curve (borrowing the term because when I was in University we've used to use another that I can't quite remember, OCR stands for Objective Challenge Reward). To maintain balance of a game you need to add something or buff something for each nerf, and the same rule applies in the reverse. The answer here is to add more "value to the buck" for late game, not to murder early game. The mistake was already done tbh, everything was nerfed and in 1.4.1 specifically the game is just boring with absolutely ZERO high-points, and you still get OP by late game regardless.... Again, the game isn't hard, it's just annoying.
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Why the hell is the Tannery so overpowered?
- Thread starter Mastigos
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I definitely don't disagree. Endgame is what defines the lasting power of a game, anyway. But, if the climb to endgame is extremely challenging, it doesn't serve the endgame focus any better. I don't agree with the idea of nerfing, but I acknowledge that nerfing is sometimes necessary for balance. However, if a system is that off kilter that the first step is a nerf, that leads me to believe the design was inherently flawed. In this case, the workshops need to be adjusted to make them more profitable so that the only option isn't a bunch of tanneries everywhere.
Can players influence this some? Sure. Keep routes between your cities clear of trouble, and hell, pick up a supply of raw materials on your way as you learn which cities and introduce those materials into your production cities. But that is an aid, not a fix.
My whole point is that yes, balance of some form is needed to ensure that the trade system is made functional and frankly useful. Nerfing Tanneries since they are the prime end-all right now seems far less useful than addressing the trade system as a whole and making sure other workshops can keep up, given the supply and situation. The point is moot, however, as the game is still Early Access and they have a plethora of other issues to track down before proper balancing can begin.
durbal
Sergeant
If anything it'd indicate the opposite.
I find myself curious as to your reasoning on that. Please, do elaborate if you will.
not challenging, no. It's boring, if it was challenging it'd be comparable to "Dark Souls 1" which is quite a fun game, atm it's comparable to a chore. The rest of your point I kind of agree, not completely though, obviously I believe that my strategy to balancing BL would work better, but I'm not in charge nor am I working for them as GD consultant, so there's no point on me dabbling too much in it. And even though I do believe that, I do not know the full scope of the game because I'm out of the loop, maybe they are onto something and these questionable balancing changes are being made as a band-aid until the game gets done.
We agree that change is needed, and what exists now is not that change. I only hope you're correct and the real system is in the works.
What version and mod you are playing? I have several saves and one of them has 1000+ days. Not single one of them can make over 1k per day not even mention 2k, even though I put the tannery to where the leather has the best price. And all other workshops would be lucky to even make close to 400. Mostly 200+ is a common good workshop for me. My tannery is around 700 on good days, usually 400-500. I don't know how you guys who are calling nerfs got all this ridiculous tannery bs with current version and without mods.
At end game this little passive income is nothing when you have a huge high tier army. You have to own towns or keep fighting and looting anyway.
At end game this little passive income is nothing when you have a huge high tier army. You have to own towns or keep fighting and looting anyway.
SirSpiffington
Recruit
Nobody here is asking for nerfs except maybe the OP. We are simply stating the imbalance in workshops. There's a big difference. Pointing out said imbalances is also the point of an EA. Kinda ruins workshops when only 3 are worth buying.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Tanneries are pretty OP and too profitable in every town. I have been complaining about tanneries since some time ago but there are some people saying that the "game is too hard, no more nerfs please, I need broken tanneries to pay wages, etc"
Pen Cannoc Pottery Shop received a deserved Nerf because It gave 600-800 daily, so exactly why tanneries should remain as broken as they are currently.
People should start playing on easy or simply using cheats instead of complaining for balancing which is necessary to make the game more challenging, because It is currently too easy.
Pen Cannoc Pottery Shop received a deserved Nerf because It gave 600-800 daily, so exactly why tanneries should remain as broken as they are currently.
People should start playing on easy or simply using cheats instead of complaining for balancing which is necessary to make the game more challenging, because It is currently too easy.
Nerfing workshops will do nothing to address the issue that you are talking about for the simple fact that you can make 50k in the first two weeks by running an army of Khuzait and raiding caravans/fighting lords. Nerfing passive income to lower general income is like fixing a leak in your kitchen sink when you have a busted pipe in your bathroom wall.
Increase troop wages and cost upgrades (at least double, possibily leaving T1/T2 as they are or increasing their cost slightly), reduce (at least cut in half) the value of equipment, and see how the lords do with that. If they are unable to pay for decent armies we might need to increase money from fiefs a little so that they can still do it.
By the time you have enough money to buy a workshop passive income is largely irrelevant in the game the way it is now. Heck I can make 500 gold per day playing Tablut and it does not require me to put down 15k beforehand.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
What is wrong about making money if you invest time on that? You can get good money with manual trading and It is ok IMO. Problem is that currently you only need to invest some few days at the begin of the game to make money, buy some workshops and caravans and then completely forget about making money because you never wont need to care about It again.
At day 100 you can easily have 3 workshops and 2 caravans which will give you +2500-3000 passive money daily which is simply insane. Caravans at least have some risk but workshops are almost 100% safe. Seriously, use cheats if you want infinite money and problem solved. And yes, I know that I could simply do not buy Tannery Workshops and problem solved for me, but It is about giving feedback to improve balancing in the game and tanneries are simply broken.
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Nakh
Sergeant
One can just ignore workshops, caravans and do only fighting and looting and it will be much more profitable. Really, currently there is no point in having caravans or workshops. Just kill weak lord and have gold influx equal to two weeks workshop income. No risk involved in farming weak lords, and they are not in short supply, actually, player can farm several weak lords every day making millions of gold coins.
High income not a problem. Not enough gold sinks is problem and nerfs of passive income do nothing to solve it.
The problem is not with making money really, the way I see it the issue is that there isn't really anything to use that money for once you have bought equipment for you and your companions. And honestly when you can get easily get 30k from a battle with a single lord, well that to me looks more like infinite money than the workshops.
3000k from 3 workshops and 2 caravans does not seem that unreasonable, considering that you have to spend 75k and two companions to gather all of that. It seem like a lot because there is not enough to spend your money on. Now when each of them is giving you 2000 for a combined income of 10000 a day, yes, sure that is a bit much. But again, it pales in comparison of the money you can make from fighting. That is where the nerf hammer needs to hit imo (not to obliterate it, just make it a little more reasonable), together with an increase of long term expenses such as troop wages.
Ultimately I would also like to see more meaningful gold sinks (e.g. the ability to outfit custom troops for money, the PoP mod for Warband did a fantastic job with that), but I understand that right now there's other things in the game that need to be addressed.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
75K which you will get back in just 25 days and then you will continue getting this money for free every day without doing anything.
Sure, there are other source incomes which are also unbalanced, but that does not mean that tanneries are ok. Lords giving 30K is also a problem. Not sure if you played Warband, but while getting money was not extremely hard, It was challenging and workshops do not make you rich and barely give you money to pay wages. In this game, getting 100K is too easy and money has not any value because there is money in abundace.
Nakh
Sergeant
Warband was very easy on money. I never was concerned about gold outside of very early days of campagn.
Money in Bannerlord have no value because there is nothing to buy.
I did and in fact I am still playing it. In Warband workshops can snowball just because of the fact that you can have as many of them as you want. And considering that each dyework gives about 500 gold each pay cycle for an investment of 10k, it's actually more money than what workshops give now (and you don't lose them permanently if you go at war with a kingdom owning the city where you workshop is). Here are some screenshots from my current game.
I honestly like the system in Warband myself. It does not matter if you are snowballing a little end game, since by then you are supposed to be fighting kings and the like, so you will need the extra cash to pay for elite troops. Here after two weeks you get access to the main source of cash, and after that it is all the same. It feel monotonous and dull and kills the sense of progression. At least that is how it feels to me.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Sure, in Warband is also easy to get money, but not ridiculous easy like in Bannerlord.
While I do agree with we need more content and ways to spend money, currently we need money to:
- Recruit units.
- Upgrade units.
- Buy food.
- Buy equipment.
- Recruit companions.
- Pay wages.
- Bost buildings.
- Pay for release prisioners.
- Pay for avoiding battles if needed.
- Buy workshops.
- Buy caravans.
- Give money to lords to improve relationship.
Call me crazy but I think we have some ways to spend money. Problem is you get much more than you need, so the money simply lacks value.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
I did and in fact I am still playing it. In Warband workshops can snowball just because of the fact that you can have as many of them as you want. And considering that each dyework gives about 500 gold each pay cycle for an investment of 10k, it's actually more money than what workshops give now (and you don't lose them permanently if you go at war with a kingdom owning the city where you workshop is). Here are some screenshots from my current game.
I honestly like the system in Warband myself. It does not matter if you are snowballing a little end game, since by then you are supposed to be fighting kings and the like, so you will need the extra cash to pay for elite troops. Here after two weeks you get access to the main source of cash, and after that it is all the same. It feel monotonous and dull and kills the sense of progression. At least that is how it feels to me.
Are you aware that workshops income in Warband is weekly while in Bannerlord is daily...
Sure, wages are also daily but you are missing the point that while you can get your investment back in just 30 days in Bannerlord, in Warband you have to wait 20 weeks...
Plus weekly wages in Warband are much higher than daily wages in Bannerlord. You have to pay 59 weekly for Swadian Knights while only 14 for Banner Knights. Seriously, in Bannerlord making money is a joke compared with Warband.
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