Why is there a Crossbow Skill?

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FlameRiot

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I mean, I get it you should have a skill for accuracy, but crossbows were mainly used because any old farmer could pick one up and be deadly with almost no training

Right now I'm trying to give a companion a crossbow but I cant find a crossbow with a low enough skill threshold for him to use. Even the "Bent Crossbow" requires a crossbow skill of 20... WHAT???? so my guy cant pick this thing up and just, PULL THE TRIGGER?

-.-

I get having requirements for higher tiered gear, but for crossbows the only requirement should be strength (vigor in this case?, idk...) I think your accuracy should scale off your bow skill or maybe keep the crossbow skill but drop the requirements for lower tiered crossbows ENTIRELY
 
FlameRiot said:
I mean, I get it you should have a skill for accuracy, but crossbows were mainly used because any old farmer could pick one up and be deadly with almost no training

Right now I'm trying to give a companion a crossbow but I cant find a crossbow with a low enough skill threshold for him to use. Even the "Bent Crossbow" requires a crossbow skill of 20... WHAT???? so my guy cant pick this thing up and just, PULL THE TRIGGER?

-.-

I get having requirements for higher tiered gear, but for crossbows the only requirement should be strength (vigor in this case?, idk...) I think your accuracy should scale off your bow skill or maybe keep the crossbow skill but drop the requirements for lower tiered crossbows ENTIRELY
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There is actually a "Light Cross" bow that I think has a zero skill requirement.

Also, just because a crossbow is easier to use than a long bow doesn't mean there is no skill involved. I mean if you have never used one, you could probably figure out how to cock it and place a bolt in it and you probably could point it in the direction of the enemy and fire but you still have to learn how to actually aim the crossbow to hit anything. Also with practice, your going to get much faster at cocking the crossbow and readying it for fire. That is the skill your raising in game.
 
Because the skill/perk system is not finished, tested, or well throughout other then some type of prototype of "look we have a perk system".
I'm hoping the lack of perk implementations is due to them having a better system in the works.
 
Midnitewolf said:
There is actually a "Light Cross" bow that I think has a zero skill requirement.

Also, just because a crossbow is easier to use than a long bow doesn't mean there is no skill involved. I mean if you have never used one, you could probably figure out how to cock it and place a bolt in it and you probably could point it in the direction of the enemy and fire but you still have to learn how to actually aim the crossbow to hit anything. Also with practice, your going to get much faster at cocking the crossbow and readying it for fire. That is the skill your raising in game.
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have you ever used a crossbow?
 
FlameRiot said:
have you ever used a crossbow?
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I have, and it's pretty self explanatory compared to shooting a bow and throwing stuff. it's a point and click weapon. what would take a long time for someone to pull, draw and aim a bow correctly. you could teach someone to shot a crossbow in an afternoon.

but going back to the game. the only viable perks you could give the crossbow is extra bolts and faster reload times. @FlameRiot I believe that crossbow should just share a skill tree with archery but have favoring perks from bow and arrow to crossbow. for naming sake is should just stay as "Archery" too. the same way when you say a firearm, that could be anything from a .22 to a shotgun.
 
Yangbang said:
I have, and it's pretty self explanatory compared to shooting a bow and throwing stuff. it's a point and click weapon. what would take a long time for someone to pull, draw and aim a bow correctly. you could teach someone to shot a crossbow in an afternoon.

but going back to the game. the only viable perks you could give the crossbow is extra bolts and faster reload times. @FlameRiot I believe that crossbow should just share a skill tree with archery but have favoring perks from bow and arrow to crossbow. for naming sake is should just stay as "Archery" too. the same way when you say a firearm, that could be anything from a .22 to a shotgun.
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Oh that's a good point. If they wanted to add guns to the game, there would be no skill, nor space in the ui for those lol. I guess they could just use the xbow stuff, but it would be a bit weird.
 
Yangbang said:
I have, and it's pretty self explanatory compared to shooting a bow and throwing stuff. it's a point and click weapon. what would take a long time for someone to pull, draw and aim a bow correctly. you could teach someone to shot a crossbow in an afternoon.
:::
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You can do the same with a bow if you do not care about form. Anyone can pick up a bow with comfortable draw weight and start shooting away and get a rough feel for how to aim and draw inside an afternoon. Arguably it is the crossbow which is mechanically more complicate to handle safely because it can be loaded. So training up a peasant militia with bows and a crossbow militia for a town would be not really that much different in difficulty. For both it is getting used to the motions, for archers to train muscle memory, for crossbowmen and muskets to train their reload process under stress. You are not doing it for sports or self perfection, but just to churn out enough shots out at reasonable range at man sized targets or bigger. Military archery is a lot different than target archery, hitting a barn door is plenty enough for military archers in a battle.

The main difference is training that for ever heavier bows that do something against armor. The strength training for the draw weight is the part that take years.

Of course, there is also true mastery of the bow, in form and all. But trick shooting and target shooting are special skills for crossbows and guns, too, and also not picked up by everyone and needing years of training or natural talent to do.
 
Game-wise we need a skill for Crossbows. It's an RPG rule system afterall. But I know the argument, in pen & paper RPGs I always preferred systems that make it easier to shoot crossbows as a compensation for the long loading time. Players always use bows, so I give the untrained a good reason to pick up a crossbow.
But historically, one of the big pluses of crossbows was the huge difference in training needed compared to bows. You could train a group of soldiers to the point when they could hit their targets pretty reliably within a few weeks. Learning to hit with a bow at a certain distance took years.
 
Sepone said:
Game-wise we need a skill for Crossbows. It's an RPG rule system afterall. But I know the argument, in pen & paper RPGs I always preferred systems that make it easier to shoot crossbows as a compensation for the long loading time. Players always use bows, so I give the untrained a good reason to pick up a crossbow.
But historically, one of the big pluses of crossbows was the huge difference in training needed compared to bows. You could train a group of soldiers to the point when they could hit their targets pretty reliably within a few weeks. Learning to hit with a bow at a certain distance took years.
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That we had in Warband. To take best bow you need spend points in power draw (and it is true). But for best crossbow you need just to buy it.
 
Maximum997 said:
That we had in Warband. To take best bow you need spend points in power draw (and it is true). But for best crossbow you need just to buy it.
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True, crossbow in Warband was always a good way to score hits, while for bows to have a decent crosshair a high skill was neccessary. Dunno why they changed this, it was cool. Crossbow was good for sieges, plenty of time to use all your ammo. Bow was better for battles in the field, faster reload. My first WB playthroughs I always used crossbow, the noob weapon. And when I found out how precise a bow can be with decent skill I became an archer. In Bannerlord I only used a crossbow in tournament so far. That's no improvement, bad idea to change it imo.
 
Sepone said:
True, crossbow in Warband was always a good way to score hits, while for bows to have a decent crosshair a high skill was neccessary. Dunno why they changed this, it was cool. Crossbow was good for sieges, plenty of time to use all your ammo. Bow was better for battles in the field, faster reload. My first WB playthroughs I always used crossbow, the noob weapon. And when I found out how precise a bow can be with decent skill I became an archer. In Bannerlord I only used a crossbow in tournament so far. That's no improvement, bad idea to change it imo.
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In Warband i used crossbows when i played infantry guy to dont spend points on power draw.
 
There is a crossbow skill because heavier crossbows had more complex loading systems, whether it be hand cranks or what have you, as well as ANYTHING can be done “better” with training and practice.

I idea that somehow peasant militia were the best you could get with a crossbow is starting to get silly. This is being over posted by fake intellectuals trying to be overly profound. Yes, basic crossbows were a great options for low skill, hardly trained forces. But this didn’t put them at a stark disadvantage to the bow, in particular in a defensive siege situation.

A huge reason why bows were also widely used after the crossbow came around was bows were easier to make. It took less skill and training to construct a bow versus the crossbow. And with arrows translating from bow to bow better then Bolts from Xbow to xbow, logistically bows still have an advantage there.

Put simply, of course you can get better with a crossbow then only what you learn in the first 5 minutes, and our thoughts of Bow superiority mostly also come from English/French romanticization of the Middle Ages, while the crossbow stayed dominant in many parts of Europe
 
Earth Dragon said:
There is a crossbow skill because heavier crossbows had more complex loading systems, whether it be hand cranks or what have you, as well as ANYTHING can be done “better” with training and practice.
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And we had this in Warband. You need to be good to ain accauratly and reload faster.
 
Maximum997 said:
And we had this in Warband. You need to be good to ain accauratly and reload faster.
Click to expand...

Just because my comment was after yours doesn’t mean I was in opposition.

I think dropping the xbow skill is a dumb idea. Training in bow or xbow is not training in the other.

the problem with the range skills aren’t that they are seperate, but unlike the melee skills, they don’t have all encompassing early perks. That’s what needs to be addressed.
 
xbow needs a skill, in WB, try to use 10 str. siege xbow, from the start and it shoots not accurately at all, so even best troops didnt have pinpoint accuracy. Troops with heavy and siege crossbow were such that a heavy crossbow was more accurate for the same skill.

in MP there is also the sling. Wonder why it isnt in single player, a throwing weapon ? :grin:
 
mangalore said:
You can do the same with a bow if you do not care about form. Anyone can pick up a bow with comfortable draw weight and start shooting away and get a rough feel for how to aim and draw inside an afternoon. Arguably it is the crossbow which is mechanically more complicate to handle safely because it can be loaded.
Click to expand...

Yes i'll agree that picking up a bow with a comfortable draw weight, you can teach anyone the fundamentals of bow archery. But I'm gonna have to stop you there. I shoot bows and have a compound and a recurve bow, both being about 65lbs. They are vastly different then using a 25 lbs bow to learn the fundamentals and then learning how to shot a moving target at a varying distance.

take a look at bow hunters vs crossbows hunters, which I am one. Bow hunters don't call crossbow shooters the same kind of shooters as a bow hunter, because its easier.

But going back to bannerlord. You're giving the complexity of crossbow reloading way too much credit. Like a said, in a short afternoon, someone could learn to take a string and reset it or wind it, and then set a bolt. Its really not that complicated. Its exactly a point and shoot weapon.

@Earth Dragon training bow and Xbox yes are different, yea. But they still share a fundamental principle of "ranged" combat. Idk if these perks already exist, but I think single hand should encompasses more "shield skills too". In a battle/war environment. If you had a one handed weapon. Your other hand was holding a shield. No one who had just a sword or mace would say, "yup, this is fine".
 
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