The Great Grub
Sergeant
lmao very true
the mamlukes run out of ammo much faster than the khans guard then lol
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Why is the Khan's Guard so much stronger than the Vanguard Faris?
- Thread starter strawmann
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Sergeant
the mamlukes run out of ammo much faster than the khans guard then lol
Antaeus
Squire
They only have one set of arrows. But their shield is handy in a melee.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Shield plus a well armoured horse actually makes them quite handy as all rounders.
I don't disagree with that, nor do I want them to remove glaives from their presets. But in general, the damage scaling on swing polearms seems completely out of whack in comparison to the other weaponry; as it's tied with how the weapons in the game are valued, you can notice this when those glaives/menavlions are like ~$30k+ in comparison, solely based on that factoring.
As a single player, yes, I can choose to abuse this or not myself - but it just feels out of place and overtly OP in a majority of situations.
I'd still prefer these shielded archers would be making use of targes like we see in RBM (or even their in-game picture). It would make them very unique and separate their most effective role from other similar units. - if you play RBM you'll notice there's a huge difference in dealing with Battanian Fians and empire's Palatines.... Palatnies can be exceptionally durable due to their targes and as such they are much more effective on defensive harassment - Fians on the other hand are more purist as archers, and as such their employment ends up being more traditional and straight-forward. Palatines do a great job at defending walls too in RBM - shorter range but much less likely to be picked off by attackers.
Raptor indeed do it with the Mamelukes, and they work - different than KGs, but not completely outclassed.
I've given that answer, along with many other ppl, time and time again: it's because armor doesn't work like armor in-game.
What makes KG stand out, though, is that they carry glaives and the AI is better at using swingable weapons than they are with thrusting weapons. Again, they must fix the AI first, than fiddle with values...
Antaeus
Squire
Glaives are pretty OP. But then so is a glaive IRL. The force that can be generated at the end of a swinging polearm is significantly more than a thrust. Think baseball.
But that's also where the game's mechanics are out of whack. To get that much force out of a glaive at 2 metres long, you should be putting your own forces near you at risk. And you should be able to swing any polearm or long spear to generate significant damage in the same ways as a glaive. If I hit you with a baseball bat even in a modern motorcycle helmet with all it's modern protection, You're still going to struggle to not go down. In that sense any long wooden post should be dangerous - but the practicalities of employment should restrict you doing it.
/armchair expert with no qualification to talk this way
The Faris dies to easily and I don't want them but God Damn 400 of them mad me mald so hard today! I re-loaded 3 times because they killed too many things! Those were MY good troops they don't deserve to die to a javelin to the head like that by a stinky aserai! But we got them good in the end by fighting dirty and punishing the bad AI that wants to take defensive position even when it has a power advantage.
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
It was clearly a rhetorical question…
I know why these units are overperforming. What I do not know is why it is still happening after two years of early access.
five bucks
Knight at Arms
Well
(1) that would make for kinda **** game balance if every single weapon was dealing the stupendous damage of the glaive. If every single weapon in the game that was a polearm could kill armoured enemies in 2 hits then that would also include the Pitchfork and the Scythe. Goodbye meaningfulness of tier.
(2) why did anyone bother with metal headed maces if you could get the same results with wooden clubs? Metal was often expensive, after all. Clearly wood pole alone was not as effective, necessitating the use of a heavy metal mace head.
(3) you're equating head hits with body hits. Maybe your bell would get rung even through a metal helmet by being hit hard in the head by a wooden cudgel - possibly. But Glaives can literally kill in 1 hit to the body on a very well padded and armoured man with just a small runup from a horse, or 2 hits standing.
From what I have seen of Buhurt, they give each other dirty great whacks on the head with metal weapons and they don't die. Their metal armour with padding beneath protects them.
Glaives are not physically realistic. There is something wrong with either their speed or damage, it doesn't add up. They cleave armoured opponents like lightsabers and swing like they're light as a feather.
Until a game can properly mimic all RL aspects with both physics and material qualities, it should still be nerfed as it is. To do that kind of swing, you would need to be very strong as it's a 'heavy' weight at the end of a stick - the amount of inertia/skill needed to swing that properly without self-harm isn't translated in the game at the moment, I can swing that thing almost perpendicular to my body on the fastest horse and, even hitting a shield, not get thrown off the horse or dislocating my shoulders or shattering the weapon. Let alone the friendly fire aspects or the fact that the game is more forgiving with where a glaive's damage can be applicable (when it should really be only at the bladed part).
because TW refuses to fix armors
Because for every complaint there's 10X as many "Oh cool a troop that doesn't suck thanks TW" feeling players. Why should TW take away the good toys and make us play with the ones left in closet? I'm in the buff everything else (or t4-6 anyways) but I also think Infantry needs a support buff similar to +map speed for mounted units.
could work... Instead I'd opt to turning Druhzina into infantry - even if keeping them mounted (which would require an AI strategy change and better management of troop distribution between formations) - we still have no elite infantry units at all in the game, and Sturgia remains the only faction without a dedicated specialty (their common inf is objectively inferior to Empire's)
five bucks
Knight at Arms
It's the other way around, for every person that actually thinks KGs or Fians are in a good state there are 10X as many who would say they are broken and need fixing. Source: YouTube and Reddit and Steam upvotes/comments
Por que no los dos?
You can both nerf the strongest (Khan's Guard, ranged in general) AND buff the weakest (spearmen, pikemen, infantry in general) while leaving all the balanced units' equipment/skills the same.
That would create an actually balanced, tactically interesting game where all units have specialties and weaknesses. It would make the game balanced in the least amount of changes.
"Just buff everything else" would be a huge amount of work Taleworlds probably isn't interested in taking on, and it would make the chance of them making more new balance mistakes much higher with every extra unnecessary change they have to make. There is no real reason why Khan's Guard can't be nerfed except that some people just have an illogical dislike of nerfs.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
The only way you're going to buff everything else is if you give them bows and glaives and horses too.
porque para atingir objetivos táticos desafiadores e interessantes, antes seria necessário que a contos mundos concertasse a porra da AI deles.
Simple isn't it?
Però, se può anche parlare così per fare il scem' - por que no cabron?
^TW Hire this guy he knows what to do
it's like trying to convince a stone to create self consciousness innit?
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
I dunno if I'm being dunked on or some trolling but...^TW Hire this guy he knows what to do
Well I mean what would you honestly suggest to bring everything else to the Khan's Guard power level? Glaives are better weapons than everything else, their armour is very thick and we already know how bows. Coupled with horses, they've basically got the build meant for racking up kills.
Buffing everything else, while nerfing them too is what's needed.
