Which leveling system do you prefer Warband or Bannerlord?

Which has the better leveling system?

  • Warband

  • Bannerlord


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Don't know. Feels pretty free to me.

Just do what you like and get better at it. People spend too much time looking at raw numbers.

Edit: Yeah, there needs to be some tweaking regarding speed, but the system itself is fine. Different specialisations offer replay value.
 
Lady Bryn, the greatest defender of mankind. In any case, the system doesn't bother me all that much, and I am assuming, with mods we will be able to change it however we'd like.
 
This feature is forcing the player down avenues, it mimics linear RPG video gaming which is the exact reason I liked Warband so much and not Assassins Creed. Like the new system if you desire, but it limits freedom of the user.

What?!? If anything it does the exact opposite! In Warband, you're forced to fight just to increase your trade skill. Here, you gain merchant points by trading, and when you level up you can add focus to the merchant skill and it will level up faster. You can be just a caravan trader, just a fighter, just a leader who doesn't fight, a blacksmith merchant, or just a blacksmith warrior, be a business owner, and by the time they iron out the game and add all features, maybe even more. It's definitly less "linear" than Warband, not sure how you can say otherwise.

"but it limits freedom of the user. "

It only limits the freedom of the user if you go "I want to have a high merchant skill, so I'lll have to do merchant things, but I don't like that", but that is not role play. If anything, it's the complete opposite of role play.

What you are supposed to do is: "I like trading, so I'll just trade and be a merchant" and that will give you a better merchant skill! And if you don't like being a merchant, don't be one and invest focus in something else. That is role play. And that is what makes this system much more RPG like than warband.

And btw, I would say Warband is definitely much closer to Assassin's Creed than Bannerlord, in terms of skills and leveling up. Now sure how some one could think otherwise.
 
i like the more RPG nature of the system, but i hate that the level progress is tied to your skill levels gained per level. it forces you to specialize and penalizes my favorite type of build, the jack-of-all-trades.
endgame this is possible, but not without first having to deal with slow leveling because of the low xp speeds staying too close to the learning limit of skills.
as of now: fast early game by focusing skills, or more utility skills with slow leveling
 
What?!? If anything it does the exact opposite! In Warband, you're forced to fight just to increase your trade skill. Here, you gain merchant points by trading, and when you level up you can add focus to the merchant skill and it will level up faster. You can be just a caravan trader, just a fighter, just a leader who doesn't fight, a blacksmith merchant, or just a blacksmith warrior, be a business owner, and by the time they iron out the game and add all features, maybe even more. It's definitly less "linear" than Warband, not sure how you can say otherwise.

"but it limits freedom of the user. "

It only limits the freedom of the user if you go "I want to have a high merchant skill, so I'lll have to do merchant things, but I don't like that", but that is not role play. If anything, it's the complete opposite of role play.

What you are supposed to do is: "I like trading, so I'll just trade and be a merchant" and that will give you a better merchant skill! And if you don't like being a merchant, don't be one and invest focus in something else. That is role play. And that is what makes this system much more RPG like than warband.

And btw, I would say Warband is definitely much closer to Assassin's Creed than Bannerlord, in terms of skills and leveling up. Now sure how some one could think otherwise.

An RPG is distinctly different than a sandbox.
 
I started a new game using the mod to increase skill gain by 25x. A lot of the ones I used a lot by never got to increase at an appropriate feeling rate now.

One other problem with the system that hasn't been mentioned yet is that giving levels based on total points earned really punishes specialized characters since higher used skills grow slowly. I suggest weighting the progress to level up a skill gives based on how high it is. Even something as simple as 50+ skills give 2x, 100+ skills give 3x ect. would make specialists less obligated to train random skills.
 
What you are supposed to do is: "I like trading, so I'll just trade and be a merchant" and that will give you a better merchant skill! And if you don't like being a merchant, don't be one and invest focus in something else. That is role play. And that is what makes this system much more RPG like than warband.

It doesn't though, that's the problem. What should happen in theory is I just trade and act like a merchant and thus become a better merchant. What actually happens under the current system is you trade and act like a merchant, improve as a merchant for a time but then hit the skill cap derived from your attributes and must then do something else ... in order to be able to go back to improving as a merchant.

Essentially, it doesn't matter what you *want* to do with the character, once you start hitting the higher levels your character *will* be a jack of all trades because that's the only way you can reach those higher levels. I'd much prefer a system where I could simply play as a merchant and master the merchant skill, but as the system currently stands that's not possible - the highest I can reach in the merchant skills are subject to a cap which rises a lot slower than my skill gain, which will ultimately require I stop being a merchant for a period of time simply so I can go back to being a better merchant once I've ground out a couple of levels.
 
An RPG is distinctly different than a sandbox.

I know, but what's your point?

In Warband, if I want to roleplay a trader, I have to go look for fights so I can gain experience and become better at trading. Every 3 levels, you can only add 1 point to trading, and then you have 2 points you have to put some where else that you might not care about.

In Bannerlord, if you want to roleplay a trader, you can just roleplay a trader, and you'll become better at trading, and gain talents that have to do with trading. Then you'll level up and get focus points that you can use to focus on trading, and maybe other things if you want to.

From what I see, Bannerlord is more of an RPG than Warband.
 
It doesn't though, that's the problem. What should happen in theory is I just trade and act like a merchant and thus become a better merchant. What actually happens under the current system is you trade and act like a merchant, improve as a merchant for a time but then hit the skill cap derived from your attributes and must then do something else ... in order to be able to go back to improving as a merchant.

Essentially, it doesn't matter what you *want* to do with the character, once you start hitting the higher levels your character *will* be a jack of all trades because that's the only way you can reach those higher levels. I'd much prefer a system where I could simply play as a merchant and master the merchant skill, but as the system currently stands that's not possible - the highest I can reach in the merchant skills are subject to a cap which rises a lot slower than my skill gain, which will ultimately require I stop being a merchant for a period of time simply so I can go back to being a better merchant once I've ground out a couple of levels.


The highest level I have reached with a singular character is 10, but from my personal experience I genuinely don't see how that's possible. My skill ceiling is huge, and it increases a lot when I add focus points. Are you putting Focus points into the merchant skill and attribute points into the social skill?

If yes, then that's definitely a negative. But it's still objectively an improvement over Warband where you are forced to fight to level up at all.
 
I think the new system has the potential to be better than the previous, but the old one was balanced a lot better before release. The idea is good, but it needs some serious adjustment. Better yet, a hybrid between the two would allow some flexibility over time (to account for what you did in your "spare time"), but you'd still get most of your improvements by actually "doing" what you're improving.
 
I know, but what's your point?

In Warband, if I want to roleplay a trader, I have to go look for fights so I can gain experience and become better at trading. Every 3 levels, you can only add 1 point to trading, and then you have 2 points you have to put some where else that you might not care about.

In Bannerlord, if you want to roleplay a trader, you can just roleplay a trader, and you'll become better at trading, and gain talents that have to do with trading. Then you'll level up and get focus points that you can use to focus on trading, and maybe other things if you want to.

From what I see, Bannerlord is more of an RPG than Warband.

In Mount And Blade you had full control, like leveling up your trading skill from 3 to 4...This nonsense has mixed in different attributes that cannot be upgraded without forcing the player to level up something entirely non related to that skill. How you come to the conclusion that this has more freedom is beyond my scope.
 
I don't think people understand the crux of the matter here. This learning-by-doing system. The reason why it's so problematic, is because, in an effort to simulate reality, it inadvertently limits the very idea of roleplaying itself. How do you simulate gaining the experience of riding a horse? There's a lot of possible ways for you to gain that in real life, but in a video game, it's impossible to account for all the possibilities, then you only have a limited specific ways to gain experience from it. This realization is what turns the game into a chore, as you often have to do the same exact way every time, just to enjoy the very action that it entails in the first place (i.e. riding a horse). Even further we can ask: Why bother putting the system in the first place? Why not just make the game like a traditional action-adventure video game? You can already see the experience of your character yourself. Why counting it twice?

With the traditional 'general experience' points, all the possibilities a character has are tied to two things: First of all to (potentially) any action they make from the viewpoint of the game rules. You can gain experience from killing bosses, completing a quest, or whatever the rules allowed. The second thing is the player can distribute the points themselves. The player then can interpret whatever happened themselves back then. This is what true role-playing is. On the one hand you have 'rules' that game designers have made. On the other hand, you subjectively decide what the details the character has done and what he's gained so far. The measurement points are just there for convenience. It's not even needed.

Now, if we look back to the learning-by-doing system, it is precisely the objective rules that have become too draconian and too intrusive, as to decide what actions count as 'experience', down to even the simpler stuff. It is true that Warband is too reliant on warfare-oriented stuff, but the problem can be easily alleviated by giving experience points to non-combat approaches to encourage them. However, some people would point out that the name 'Mount and Blade' itself already implies that the game should revolve around combat, first and foremost.

Very nicely put. I'm with you 100% on this.
 
In Mount And Blade you had full control, like leveling up your trading skill from 3 to 4...This nonsense has mixed in different attributes that cannot be upgraded without forcing the player to level up something entirely non related to that skill. How you come to the conclusion that this has more freedom is beyond my scope.

I'm sorry, but that just made no sense to me. I feel like you don't understand how Bannerlord works.

Like you said, in Warband you can level up trading from 3 to 4, but to do that you have to fight enough to level up 3 times (even if you don't want to fight), and then you'll have 2 extra points you don't need. In Warband you have to do thing you don't want.

In Bannerlord, if you want to gain trading skill, all you have to do is trade. If you don't want to trade, go do something else that you want. And then you'll get better at the thing you want to do. In Bannerlord you just do what you want to do.

Doing things you want is basically the definition of freedom. Therefore, Bannerlord gives you more freedom than Warband. That's just a fact. So, no offense, but what you said just doesn't make sense.
 
The highest level I have reached with a singular character is 10, but from my personal experience I genuinely don't see how that's possible.

The number of skill increases needed to level up increases with each level; you can only increase an attribute every four levels. It's therefore a mathematical certainty you'll reach a point where the available number of skill points you can earn in a given skill is less than the number of skill increases required to level. Where that barrier is will shift depending on what you're doing - the more diverse the skillset you're using the further out that barrier gets pushed, assuming you're achieving a relatively balanced investment/increase over those skills (hence the tendency towards jack of all trades rather than specialising).
 
The number of skill increases needed to level up increases with each level; you can only increase an attribute every four levels. It's therefore a mathematical certainty you'll reach a point where the available number of skill points you can earn in a given skill is less than the number of skill increases required to level. Where that barrier is will shift depending on what you're doing - the more diverse the skillset you're using the further out that barrier gets pushed, assuming you're achieving a relatively balanced investment/increase over those skills (hence the tendency towards jack of all trades rather than specialising).

Ah, ok, I see.

But yeah, they definitely need to polish and improve the system, but I still much prefer it as is than as in Warband, personally.
 
As I said earlier, I think the only change needed to fix it is to remove the cap imposed from attribute level - instead maybe have those feed in to how easy it is to increase their associated skills - and it'd solve most of the problem. The current system isn't inherently flawed so much as it is artificially constrained.
 
we need books to help level, and more tasks / quests like herb gathering, healing the sick during a plague, a seige, ways to learn each skill.

im struggling to level 1 handed despite 3 bars and 5 vigor and 100 tourneys and battles im at 37...seems very slow, yet i recruit level 15 companions with crazy high skills in these.

this is all easy fixes to me, great way for the community to provide a huge sample group in early access to balance this stuff out.

I really dont like the "helps with simulations" skills. certainly not as stand alone. i'd like a second option like other trees for each of these, i don't simulate and don't care to waste points / grind on it.
 
I love the game so far, but I hate the leveling system with a passion. A much better alternative would be to remove all restrictions on skill and therefore perk gain.

Get rid of VIG, CTR, END, CNG, SOC and INT and all associated focuses. Just let the player level the skills and when they get a new perk that's it. No reason to get this many skills to get a point for this to get another level for more focus points but LOL ONLY LIMITED ATTRIBUTE POINTS. That's the DUMBEST possible decision because all this does is limit character growth AWAY from what one naturally does and toward boring gameplay routines all in some grindy pursuit of a 'build' they were going for that doesn't suck at recruiting lords during the endgame.

Why not just let us become skilled at the things we do in game without any ridiculous level-up-stat based barrier? Why can't I be good at schmoozing with a lord just because I was a steppe farmer and therefore a good horseman? Maybe he likes my raunchy jokes, and my moonshine. I don't see the point of a 'level up' in the first place since everything is based on raw skills and perks. The whole system exists solely to make your characters suck for longer than they should and in ways they in which shouldn't.
 
im struggling to level 1 handed despite 3 bars and 5 vigor and 100 tourneys and battles im at 37...seems very slow, yet i recruit level 15 companions with crazy high skills in these.

I think you don't get experience in tournaments, unfortunately. I wish they fixed that.

You can only get fighting experience from actual battles.
 
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