SP Viking Conquest Balance Mod 13

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Tingyun

Knight at Arms
How have you been recently? Everything going well with Hooded Horse? (I know this isn't relevant to VC Balance, just wanted to ask lol.)

That's nice of you to ask, things have been going well! The game we are making as a studio (the one discussed on the website) is progressing, and we are getting ready to expand the team. I'm expecting to start releasing detailed info in a couple months, and aiming for release next year.

We made the decision to use our extra funding to also become a publisher for other small independent studios. As publisher we've signed one studio so far, and they're close to completing their first game. The game was already looking great (there have been glowing articles following its development process in the gaming press over the last couple years, as they have a large fanbase from prior projects), and we've funded them for a strong last year of development and release, so the end result should be pretty exciting.

I should probably send out an email newsletter soon with an update on everything. A lot of people signed up for the newsletter at the website, but I've been waiting until I have a lot of news to share so I can avoid sending things too often.
 
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Tingyun

Knight at Arms
For anyone cooped up at home and looking for something fun and educational to look at, here's the Virtual Museum from the Centre for the Study of the Viking Age at the University of Nottingham:

 
I just wanted to say thank you for your work on the Balance Mod, I'm new to the forums but not to the series and with something like 900 hours in Warband, VC, and Brytenwalda, I just have to say, Balance mod really saved VC for me.

The core game was great but you know what almost killed it for me? The sonic travel speed on the map haha.

That one tweak alone was worth it. Many many many enjoyable hours later just wanted to say thanks, and good luck with hooded horse, I will be keeping an eye on it, I do believe I signed up awhile back for it, through lurking on the forums here and on your reddit thread.

Thanks again for your work and for the communities input.
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Hi Bretwalda Penda,

Thanks for your kind comments, and I'm glad you are enjoying the mod!

I appreciate the support for Hooded Horse, we're working away and should have some fun announcements to make within the next few months.
 

Wulfric

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It's a shame that the Siege AI lacks the depth of the battle AI such that there is no morale system for the siege which causes the attacking side to fight to death. This results in me re-enacting the Battle of Thermopylae every in-game week.
 
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Awesome, saw this last night in discord, been too busy to play any games for a few weeks, but VC has been calling, can't wait to try the new additions
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
I'm adding unique bodyguards for special lords in 13.0 (ie, they will recruit extra of this unit into their party, making them significantly more powerful), and looking for any suggestions (you can leave suggestions here or at the Discord)

As starting examples, I have so far:

Harald in Norway: Berserkers
Alfred in Wessex: Saxon T4 spearmen)
Ketill Bjornsson in Norway: Archers
Aelfric Uhtredson in Northumbria (renamed lord of Bebbanburg): Angle T4 spearmen
Ubba: Danish Elite Vikingr
 
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Some interesting and rather big changes in here!

I would be interested in trying it for a new character.

I am a little confused about the world speed though, I personally really really liked the feel of the slower speed, so this update, if I am reading correctly pretty much lessened that change?

It's not really a deal breaker for me, as I like the sound of the other changes with dismounted leaders, bodyguards and the norse troop trees quite a lot, just a bit unfortunate if that's the case.

I am honestly grateful that you are still showing this game and mod love. I have been enjoying Bannerlord but it doesn't hold my imagination like VC.
 
@Tingyun hi! Huge thank u for this tremendous amount of love and all the work u put into the mod! I've been playing Viking Conquest for years now thanks to you, and it's never been tiresome for real! It's approximately the 3300th day of my campaign as a Cyning of Englaland (way extended Essex it ended up being lol) and it's been so much fun! I have taken all Wessex, East Anglia, Mercia, and Cornubia. I would like to contribute and share some experience that would help improve the mod even further since I have played over a thousand hours total easily:
1. When u build a big kingdom at some point lots of lords of the other kingdoms want to resign and join you. And it is okay at first, but I try to roleplay as much as possible and e.g. I give Saxon lands only to Saxon lords, English to English, Briton lands to the Briton lords, etc. and as so when an Irish lord comes to my court, I can either tell him I won't accept him (I have no Irish lands to give for now and will not have for the next 10 in-game years or so lol) and get -30 (or -10?) to relationship OR just ignore him, WHICH will lead to dozens of them getting stuck up in my court. It can be really annoying especially when they return to your court again and again after u tell them "No". Could u please fix it that maybe if a lord has a negative or 0 relationship with me he will not try to join my kingdom perhaps? It seems to be the easiest way to me, but I'm not a coder and maybe u can come up with a better solution?
I also want to address a possible VC vanilla bug that leads to a rare case when lords don't even need your (king's) approval and join automatically (you can see them in the the kingdom's lords list and they start bleeding relationship because they have no fiefs)
2. Sometimes, I assume after a fight where there were more than 2 parties, though I'm not certain, there is a party of 0 bandits. It just remains on a map. Moreover, despite usually being unable to move, especially in late game it sometimes happens that parties of bandits numbered 0 rob and set afire my villages and sometimes it even results in a decrease of relationship with the lord of the village since the log says I did it (what a provocation :grin:)
3. If u want to build a stable kingdom with the base of upstanding and martial lords, u have to heavily rely on "travellers" as they spread rumours which is commonly the only reasonable way to get an upstanding lord from another kingdom. Such procedures take some nuts amount of time and, more importantly, save-loads since their result is rarely positive. The first solution I'd like to suggest (dunno if it's easily implementable or is barely possible) is to add an option to send a "spy" with the same function from the kingdom manager dialogue or menu, with a significant price increase for it and let's say a 50% chance of success and 50% chance of nothing happening (no relationship loss since it was a loyal spy who didn't reveal his sender :grin:)
It would be a bliss if u could solve at least some of these little though annoying things :smile:
Looking forward to trying out the new version when it's released, I'll be really happy to share more experience if it's helpful for balancing and development!
 
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Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Some interesting and rather big changes in here!

Glad to hear you like it!

I posted a new version on the Discord yesterday with some additonal stuff, if you'd like to try it in-game. People seem to be enjoying the new unique tournaments for each faction, as well as the unique bodyguards for special lords.

I am a little confused about the world speed though, I personally really really liked the feel of the slower speed, so this update, if I am reading correctly pretty much lessened that change?

It's not really a deal breaker for me, as I like the sound of the other changes with dismounted leaders, bodyguards and the norse troop trees quite a lot, just a bit unfortunate if that's the case.

Partially, yes, but not all the way. I tried to strike a balance between the two speeds.

So now in 13.0, actual speed remains realistic (ie, the speed of days/nights ticking by in game), but the timescale is a little faster, so apparent map speed from the perspective of a human player is about 80% of what vanilla speed feels like. That's about halfway between what the old realistic speed 12.0 felt like (50%) and vanilla speeds, so I think it strikes a good balance that will probably appeal to everyone. You can easily edit this out yourself if you like, and I'm happy to create an optional add-on to make it slower if people want, but give it a try and see how you like the new timescale (I'd appreciate the feedback)
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
@Tingyun hi! Huge thank u for this tremendous amount of love and all the work u put into the mod! I've been playing Viking Conquest for years now thanks to you, and it's never been tiresome for real! It's approximately the 3300th day of my campaign as a Cyning of Englaland (way extended Essex it ended up being lol) and it's been so much fun! I have taken all Wessex, East Anglia, Mercia, and Cornubia.

Thanks, that's great to hear, and congratulations! That's one epic game you have going!

1. When u build a big kingdom at some point lots of lords of the other kingdoms want to resign and join you. And it is okay at first, but I try to roleplay as much as possible and e.g. I give Saxon lands only to Saxon lords, English to English, Briton lands to the Briton lords, etc. and as so when an Irish lord comes to my court, I can either tell him I won't accept him (I have no Irish lands to give for now and will not have for the next 10 in-game years or so lol) and get -30 (or -10?) to relationship OR just ignore him, WHICH will lead to dozens of them getting stuck up in my court. It can be really annoying especially when they return to your court again and again after u tell them "No". Could u please fix it that maybe if a lord has a negative or 0 relationship with me he will not try to join my kingdom perhaps? It seems to be the easiest way to me, but I'm not a coder and maybe u can come up with a better solution?
I also want to address a possible VC vanilla bug that leads to a rare case when lords don't even need your (king's) approval and join automatically (you can see them in the the kingdom's lords list and they start bleeding relationship because they have no fiefs)

I'll make a note to look into this.

2. Sometimes, I assume after a fight where there were more than 2 parties, though I'm not certain, there is a party of 0 bandits. It just remains on a map. Moreover, despite usually being unable to move, especially in late game it sometimes happens that parties of bandits numbered 0 rob and set afire my villages and sometimes it even results in a decrease of relationship with the lord of the village since the log says I did it (what a provocation :grin:)

That's an odd glitch. I vaguely recall seeing 0 member parties in another mod, so perhaps its a Warband engine problem. Can you attack the 0 member parties yourself to get rid of them? I'll try looking into this.

3. If u want to build a stable kingdom with the base of upstanding and martial lords, u have to heavily rely on "travellers" as they spread rumours which is commonly the only reasonable way to get an upstanding lord from another kingdom. Such procedures take some nuts amount of time and, more importantly, save-loads since their result is rarely positive. The first solution I'd like to suggest (dunno if it's easily implementable or is barely possible) is to add an option to send a "spy" with the same function from the kingdom manager dialogue or menu, with a significant price increase for it and let's say a 50% chance of success and 50% chance of nothing happening (no relationship loss since it was a loyal spy who didn't reveal his sender :grin:)
It would be a bliss if u could solve at least some of these little though annoying things :smile:

Hmm, I'd be hesitent to implement anything making it easy for the player to steal the upstanding lords from the other kings.

Do you find it is needed to be so selective? Balance Mod made the "bad" lords less "bad" in a prior version--sure, they aren't as good as upstanding, but pitiless and cunning lords in Balance Mod are pretty ok vassals. I didn't like the betrayal/indictment spiral or the player incentives to obsess too much over personalities, so I made it so any except the worst personalities should be pretty good vassals if you give them a little bit of attention. The only ones I wouldn't recruit are Debauched and Quarrelsome (though even them I made a little less bad, so they don't end up in a permanent cycle of kingdom hopping, they should be fairly stable now, just not particularly helpful).

In general I think martial lords might be better than upstanding, as martial lords are better for warfare in some ways (they are more likely to follow the marshall on campaign than upstanding lords).

Looking forward to trying out the new version when it's released, I'll be really happy to share more experience if it's helpful for balancing and development!

The new version is up on the Discord now, if you'd like to try out an advance copy.

But I'm sad to say: I had to break save compatibility. First time in Balance Mod's history, but I wanted to add a lot of new units, and that meant save compatibility is lost. On the plus side, the new units (Briton, Frisian, and Norse) should be quite a lot of fun, but really, none of that would be worth abandoning your epic 3000 day campaign for. Keep playing 12.0, that's an amazing campaign you have going!
 
Thanks, that's great to hear, and congratulations! That's one epic game you have going!
I'll make a note to look into this.
That's an odd glitch. I vaguely recall seeing 0 member parties in another mod, so perhaps its a Warband engine problem. Can you attack the 0 member parties yourself to get rid of them? I'll try looking into this.
Yeah, you can attack them and a battle will start with you vs no one so u will win instantly after spawning on a field.

Hmm, I'd be hesitent to implement anything making it easy for the player to steal the upstanding lords from the other kings.
Do you find it is needed to be so selective? Balance Mod made the "bad" lords less "bad" in a prior version--sure, they aren't as good as upstanding, but pitiless and cunning lords in Balance Mod are pretty ok vassals. I didn't like the betrayal/indictment spiral or the player incentives to obsess too much over personalities, so I made it so any except the worst personalities should be pretty good vassals if you give them a little bit of attention. The only ones I wouldn't recruit are Debauched and Quarrelsome (though even them I made a little less bad, so they don't end up in a permanent cycle of kingdom hopping, they should be fairly stable now, just not particularly helpful).
In general I think martial lords might be better than upstanding, as martial lords are better for warfare in some ways (they are more likely to follow the marshall on campaign than upstanding lords).
Yeah, I get your point! See, as an old player in VC I remember way too many situations when some lords left my kingdom and joined their old default king (the rebellion event I guess) despite having very high relationship with me which was an illogical killjoy and even made me stop several pretty long campaigns and think about how to prevent or fix it. Not sure if it was vanilla VC, Blood Eagle, Dark Ages or even early VC Balance versions, but this unpleasant experience made me think I must only give huge pieces of lands to upstanding lords since they have always been loyal. It's really interesting to learn that you have not only changed the chance of personality types setting upon the world creation, but also their behaviour itself. That is absolutely lovely! Huge thank you for this fix, now if the painful situation described is not possible anymore - there is really no need to change anything in this regard :smile:

The new version is up on the Discord now, if you'd like to try out an advance copy.
But I'm sad to say: I had to break save compatibility. First time in Balance Mod's history, but I wanted to add a lot of new units, and that meant save compatibility is lost. On the plus side, the new units (Briton, Frisian, and Norse) should be quite a lot of fun, but really, none of that would be worth abandoning your epic 3000 day campaign for. Keep playing 12.0, that's an amazing campaign you have going!
I don't mind starting another one and really appreciate your work despite having to start over to see all the new features because every time I only get more and more fun :grin:
Is there any chance you could also consider adding the women into a norse troop tree as I asked before since it will break the saves anyway?) I think, it would be really wonderful and would add even more unique vibe into the tree.

P.S. I've just come up with another idea that could solve the first issue I addressed. If I remember correctly, in native Warband we had a system of exile when lords who haven't found place in any kingdom (have bad relationship with all kings) just left the campaign. I assume they could try to be a vassal of every kingdom they haven't been part of and they have positive relationship with king of and if the fail, they exile - it could really save the late game from a constant spam of lords in players court and making it irritating (imagine like a hundred lords of let's say 15 kingdoms all in your court and u all the tame have to talk to all of them and can't really block them from coming over and over).
 
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Tingyun

Knight at Arms
I remember way too many situations when some lords left my kingdom and joined their old default king (the rebellion event I guess)...this unpleasant experience made me think I must only give huge pieces of lands to upstanding lords since they have always been loyal.

The rebellion trigger doesn't check personality--upstanding lords will rebel for their former king as well. However, I nerfed the size of the rebellion related relations drop, so that's probably why you aren't seeing constant rebellions anymore.

Is there any chance you could also consider adding the women into a norse troop tree as I asked before since it will break the saves anyway?) I think, it would be really wonderful and would add even more unique vibe into the tree.

Sadly, there's no convincing archeological evidence for female warriors among the Viking Age Norse (the Birka skeleton is often cited as evidence, but as Professor Judith Jesch of the University of Nottingham has pointed out, the bones lacked any evidence of damage from fighting or traces of combat training). In the Sagas however, we do have tales of exceptional female warriors. But those are lone, very rare individuals in the Sagas, not masses of troops organized into fighting units. The exception is Saxo Grammaticus, but as Professor Jesch has argued, Saxo's images of women warriors derive from the legend of the Amazons from classical mythology, combined with Christian attitudes of his time, and even the popular depiction of Valkyries as female warriors would be alien to the Norse of this time period, as the role of Valkyries was to "allot death on the battlefield and serve drinks in Valhall", not fight in combat. They did not even gain a martial appearance until the Icelandic Helgi poems, and they still don't fight even then, you have to get to Saxo Grammaticus before you find anything like that. To quote Jesch one more time:

"Although Saxo's warrior women are related to the valkyries of Norse myth and legend, they represent a typically medieval view of such past beliefs. Valkyries can only turn into amazons when they are no longer a part of the belief structures of a society, although they may then represent new belief structures, in Saxo's case a typically Christian view of women. The heroic fantasy of the the protective valkyrie we find in Eddic poetry and Saxo's misogynist fantasy of warrior women may be easy enough to recognize for the products of the male imagination that they are."

Judith Jesch, Women in the Viking Age, 1991, page 180 (book available here: https://amazon.com/Women-Viking-Age-Judith-Jesch/dp/0851153607/)

I'll also quote my favorite Viking Age blog, The Viking Answer Lady:

"...women warriors in the Viking Age are mostly myth, spurred on by folks such as Saxo Grammaticus, who as a Christian priest was aghast at the relative freedom and societal power of real-life Viking women, and so wrote many many stories about women warriors that relied much more on his classical education's references to the Greek Amazon legends than to any Viking practices. Saxo's aim was to present a woman warrior, then to create a virile hero who would defeat her with nothing but his aura of virility and manly good looks."

"Valkyries, Wish-Maidens, and Swan-Maids", Viking Answer Lady Blog, http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/valkyrie.shtml

What I have done with Balance Mod is greatly increase the combat ability of Solveig, the female hero that seems inspired by the Sagas and Icelandic poetry. I increased her weapon proficiency by about +200 points, making her one of the most powerful combat heroes of the game. I also strengthened the upgradable female troop line substantially. The top unit in particular is now much more powerful with Balance Mod, she's now a skilled hybrid between elite slinger and shield-carrying melee troop, a role unique among all troops in the game. These units do not give any morale penalty to either christians or pagans, and women found in norse areas can be upgraded to them, meaning they include norse female warriors, as well as Saxon, Irish, and so forth. Because, setting aside the imaginings of 13th century Christian priests and 21st century television producers, there is every reason to expect that there were far more Irish and Angle women fighting in this time period than norse--women in every century have taken up arms when their homes have been attacked, and it wasn't the Norse on the receiving end of most of the violence of this time period.
 
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The rebellion trigger doesn't check personality--upstanding lords will rebel for their former king as well. However, I nerfed the size of the rebellion related relations drop, so that's probably why you aren't seeing constant rebellions anymore.
Should I still expect random betrayals from my lords in future even though I have 80-100 relationships with them all and their relationship with their former kings were around -50 when they changed side?

Sadly, there's no convincing archeological evidence for female warriors among the Viking Age Norse (the Birka skeleton is often cited as evidence, but as Professor Judith Jesch of the University of Nottingham has pointed out, the bones lacked any evidence of damage from fighting or traces of combat training). In the Sagas however, we do have tales of exceptional female warriors. But those are lone, very rare individuals in the Sagas, not masses of troops organized into fighting units. The exception is Saxo Grammaticus, but as Professor Jesch has argued, Saxo's images of women warriors derive from the legend of the Amazons from classical mythology, combined with Christian attitudes of his time, and even the popular depiction of Valkyries as female warriors would be alien to the Norse of this time period, as the role of Valkyries was to "allot death on the battlefield and serve drinks in Valhall", not fight in combat. They did not even gain a martial appearance until the Icelandic Helgi poems, and they still don't fight even then, you have to get to Saxo Grammaticus before you find anything like that. To quote Jesch one more time:
"Although Saxo's warrior women are related to the valkyries of Norse myth and legend, they represent a typically medieval view of such past beliefs. Valkyries can only turn into amazons when they are no longer a part of the belief structures of a society, although they may then represent new belief structures, in Saxo's case a typically Christian view of women. The heroic fantasy of the the protective valkyrie we find in Eddic poetry and Saxo's misogynist fantasy of warrior women may be easy enough to recognize for the products of the male imagination that they are."
Judith Jesch, Women in the Viking Age, 1991, page 180 (book available here: https://amazon.com/Women-Viking-Age-Judith-Jesch/dp/0851153607/)
I'll also quote my favorite Viking Age blog, The Viking Answer Lady:
"...women warriors in the Viking Age are mostly myth, spurred on by folks such as Saxo Grammaticus, who as a Christian priest was aghast at the relative freedom and societal power of real-life Viking women, and so wrote many many stories about women warriors that relied much more on his classical education's references to the Greek Amazon legends than to any Viking practices. Saxo's aim was to present a woman warrior, then to create a virile hero who would defeat her with nothing but his aura of virility and manly good looks."
"Valkyries, Wish-Maidens, and Swan-Maids", Viking Answer Lady Blog, http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/valkyrie.shtml
What I have done with Balance Mod is greatly increase the combat ability of Solveig, the female hero that seems inspired by the Sagas and Icelandic poetry. I increased her weapon proficiency by about +200 points, making her one of the most powerful combat heroes of the game. I also strengthened the upgradable female troop line substantially. The top unit in particular is now much more powerful with Balance Mod, she's now a skilled hybrid between elite slinger and shield-carrying melee troop, a role unique among all troops in the game. These units do not give any morale penalty to either christians or pagans, and women found in norse areas can be upgraded to them, meaning they include norse female warriors, as well as Saxon, Irish, and so forth. Because, setting aside the imaginings of 13th century Christian priests and 21st century television producers, there is every reason to expect that there were far more Irish and Angle women fighting in this time period than norse--women in every century have taken up arms when their homes have been attacked, and it wasn't the Norse on the receiving end of most of the violence of this time period.
Thank you for such a detailed answer as always, I really love and appreciate ur approach and those facts are really interesting to know :smile:
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Should I still expect random betrayals from my lords in future even though I have 80-100 relationships with them

What happens is that periodically a random roll is made and compared to a function of your charisma and your leadership, and if it rolls higher then a lord either loses relations (if at high relations currently) or rebels (if at low relations, a if feels militarily secure in terms of walled centers on his side). The relations loss is moderate in balance mod (-5 or so, I think it was -20 or so in vanilla). I don’t remember what influences prior king relation has, but I’d guess it prevents it if too low. If I remember correctly, at 22 charisma and 10 leadership it is impossible to fail the roll, so the above stops occurring, and becomes very unlikely at high scores, like 9 leadership 18 charisma.
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Hersir Olgierd Osvaldsson: I made some changes in response to our conversation:

- I took a look at the appearance range of facial appearances on the female troops, and saw their list of possible faces did not include Norse. Origin/religion is such that they represent all cultures, so I broadened the range so they will use Norse faces alongside Saxon/Irish/etc.

- I gave the female troop tree a +1 tier buff. Basically, I advanced the inbetween level 15 unit to 18, the 18 to 23, and the 23 to 26, and so the tree ends a tier higher (I had done similar things to the frisians a week ago, trying to get level progression more standardized generally)

- consistent with that, skills and equipment quality have gone up. The new second to highest troop is similar to the old highest, while the old highest is an even more elite slinger/melee hybrid (She is the best slinger in the game, as no faction fields a tier 4 slinger, and she couples that with having a sword and shield). She also gets a small chance at mail armor (scale armor). This enhances the buffs to the female troop tree a few versions ago.

- I scattered some specifically Norse equipment throughout the tree, mixed amongst the specifically Christian faction equipment.

I think this should work for players hoping to see elite female troops of any origin (Norse, Irish, Saxon, etc). The virtue of the female troop tree is it represents a historical “what if”, ie the intervention of a history changing player, and so there is freedom there that we don’t have with the faction troop trees.

I will release the new Balance Mod 13 prerelease on the discord sometime tomorrow, with this change included.
 
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Hersir Olgierd Osvaldsson: I made some changes in response to our conversation:

- I took a look at the appearance range of facial appearances on the female troops, and saw their list of possible faces did not include Norse. Origin/religion is such that they represent all cultures, so I broadened the range so they will use Norse faces alongside Saxon/Irish/etc.

- I gave the female troop tree a +1 tier buff. Basically, I advanced the inbetween level 15 unit to 18, the 18 to 23, and the 23 to 26, and so the tree ends a tier higher (I had done similar things to the frisians a week ago, trying to get level progression more standardized generally)

- consistent with that, skills and equipment quality have gone up. The new second to highest troop is similar to the old highest, while the old highest is an even more elite slinger/melee hybrid (She is the best slinger in the game, as no faction fields a tier 4 slinger, and she couples that with having a sword and shield). She also gets a small chance at mail armor (scale armor). This enhances the buffs to the female troop tree a few versions ago.

- I scattered some specifically Norse equipment throughout the tree, mixed amongst the specifically Christian faction equipment.

I think this should work for players hoping to see elite female troops of any origin (Norse, Irish, Saxon, etc). The virtue of the female troop tree is it represents a historical “what if”, ie the intervention of a history changing player, and so there is freedom there that we don’t have with the faction troop trees.

I will release the new Balance Mod 13 prerelease on the discord sometime tomorrow, with this change included.

Wow! Can't wait to see it and test out! I really loved having women in my party in my playthrough as a Norse Konungr. Not only do they provide a significant morale boost, but they are also decent warriors indeed! One of my epic battles was only won thanks to them, when I was ambushed by a Saxon King and had to fight with 500 warriors on my side against 1800 Saxons and oh my was it tough, the battle was lasting for about 40 minutes and then at the end I only had almost no health, about 40 women soldiers left and a couple of my bodyguards against the same amount of weakened Saxon veterans and we split and attacked from both sides and won. Even managed to capture the King and to get 300K silver for him as well as their last fortress soon after my reinforcements came c:
 
@Tingyun I also wanted to ask if you could clarify how alliances work? When I had +40 relationship with Gwynedd and +80 with their king, and we had a strong common foe I sent a skilled negotiator to him to suggest an alliance he came back to me with smth like "The king wants to stay in peace though doesn't trust me so refuses". When I tried it via tavern messages the answer was always negative "Doesn't want to discuss such things with a lower messenger". Though I remember that in my previous campaign when I became a new Konung of Northvegr soon after the Danish Konung suggested an alliance even though I only had smth like +10 -- +20 relationships with him and his kingdom.
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
I haven't modded diplomacy at all in 12.0, so I'm not knowledgable about the system. In 13.0, I made alliances and peace somewhat longer lasting, but have not otherwise modded them.

Great story in the post above, congratulations on your victory!
 
I haven't modded diplomacy at all in 12.0, so I'm not knowledgable about the system. In 13.0, I made alliances and peace somewhat longer lasting, but have not otherwise modded them.

Great story in the post above, congratulations on your victory!
Alright, but do u still know about how it works? I mean u e.g. know how rebellions trigger, so perhaps u could explain about alliances too?
I also want to ask, not sure if it's fixed in the new version, but is it possible to match, synchronize the amounts of time given for quests with the ones in the descriptions? I I remember u had increased the amount of time given for finishing quests when u had made realistic map speed as a feature of this mod, but mayors still say "U have 7 days to deliver X", when it is 30 days for instance . Thanks!
 
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