SP Viking Conquest Balance Mod 13

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Tingyun

Knight at Arms
I honestly have never tried to edit quest state with a saved game editor, but I'd imagine it is pretty easy, should mostly be a matter of changing a number somewhere. Hardest part is probably figuring out what to change, but checking the module files for that quest should find it fairly easily. I'd imagine you could find some past post on the forums on this, I mean messing with quest state has to be something people do fairly often. Anyway, sent you the vanilla travel speeds source file over email a couple hours ago, happy conquests!
 

HighOnez

Recruit
Hey, Tingyun.

I have a suggestion for your balance mod. You could add in the additional height options for the character creation. Troll height could have a massive increase to strength while having a massive decrease to agility, and Child height vice-versa. I tried implementing these options in the .py, but I always end up with errors.

Just wanna roleplay a child conquering all of Scandinavia lol.
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Unfortunately that’s a kind of change that seems small but could have unforeseen glitchy effects elsewhere. I try to avoid those kinds of changes, as they have limited gameplay benefit (many players won’t use them at all) but would require an enormous amount of testing to ensure no errors cropped up. Especially in this late stage of Balance Mod’s development, stability and ensuring no bugs are introduced are basically the most important things.

Side point, but taller height is a huge advantage. If you fight in tournaments in Northumbria, even in vanilla VC where all lords have the same stats, Ubbe/Hubbi wins a large percentage of the time, just because of his giant height. I think it has to do with striking over shields, or maybe headshots, but the effect is dramatic. Of course in Balance Mod Ubbe also has 500 WP and maxed strength, so he has another reason for victory, but his outperformance is dramatic enough even in vanilla VC.
 

Cyprian2

Recruit
Hi Tingyun. This seems like the very thing I've been looking for! Sorry to ask, but does "save-game compatible" mean that I can apply the mod while in the middle of a Vanilla Reforged campaign? If so, seems almost too good to be true. Either way, mod looks fantastic. :wink:
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Hi Cyprian2,

Yep, Balance Mod is save compatible with vanilla VC saves, you can install the mod and just keep playing your current campaign. No bugs or glitches will result at all, and you will get 90% of the changes.

A few Balance Mod changes won’t show up in existing campaigns, because they are set when the world is initially generated. For example, you won’t see the added AI lord family relations, nor will you see the historical polarized starting religion levels. But no problems will result, and what you miss is very minor.

I initially made save compatibility with vanilla a major goal back when Balance Mod 1.0 was made, because it was a pretty small mod and I wanted players to feel ok giving it a try. After that, with each new version I didn’t want to break saves with the prior version, so by the transitive property of save compatibility even 12.0 still remained compatible with vanilla. Only thing I really lost by preserving save compatibility was that I was then not able to create entirely new troops (which is why the Norse dane axe warriors are a repurposed Norse standard bearer, and for the Norse the standard bearer morale bonus is moved to the huscarls, as the household guard and symbol of a chieftain’s status—I think it worked out fine that way regardless).
 

Cyprian2

Recruit
Thanks for the reply, and for all your hard work. I'm looking forward to trying Balance Mod tonight, along with the Dark Age graphics mod.  :party:
 

Drax70

Sergeant at Arms
Is there any chance implementing Dark Age with this?
That would be awesome!!!  :party:

You should ask permission from @ha3481 though!

But, it's been very long since he was shown in the forum, that I have started to think that real life cought up with him...

Thanks!
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Ha3481 already created a compatibility version of Dark Age with a special patch to combine with Balance Mod. He later asked me to maintain the patch when I update Balance Mod, but it is all his hard work, I just make the minor changes to keep it up to date.

You can find the compatibility patch for Dark Age/Balance Mod at either the Balance Mod ModDB or Nexus sites (links in my signature below). You can find Ha3481’s compatibility version here: https://www.moddb.com/mods/dark-age-for-viking-conquest/downloads/graphic-mod-pack-for-vc-11

Plasquar did a Let’s Play with the combined Dark Age/Balance Mod, you can find his series here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1M1JTXqBlM81wtiJHEXCENUMb2NedCm6
 

Drax70

Sergeant at Arms
Tingyun said:
Ha3481 already created a compatibility version of Dark Age with a special patch to combine with Balance Mod. He later asked me to maintain the patch when I update Balance Mod, but it is all his hard work, I just make the minor changes to keep it up to date.

You can find the compatibility patch for Dark Age/Balance Mod at either the Balance Mod ModDB or Nexus sites (links in my signature below). You can find Ha3481’s compatibility version here: https://www.moddb.com/mods/dark-age-for-viking-conquest/downloads/graphic-mod-pack-for-vc-11

Plasquar did a Let’s Play with the combined Dark Age/Balance Mod, you can find his series here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1M1JTXqBlM81wtiJHEXCENUMb2NedCm6

I tried it and there are a lot of things missing from the map like farmsteads, caves and a lot of important sites as well..
Besides that, the best part in Dark Age are the armor variety for each faction! Vanila VCR shows all men beeing buffed up like body-builders or something which is crap and unrealistic, in my opinion.

If it is possible for you to implement those, that would be awesome!
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
The items and such were removed by Ha3481 when he made the compatibility version of Dark Age. Ha3481 has not to my knowledge released the source code for Dark Age. Worth noting that trying to add some of the excluded Dark Age content would also break save compatibility, and save compatibility is still relevant to many new players discovering Balance Mod (as can be seen just a few posts up). Besides, some people love Dark Age, but some people prefer the vanilla aesthetic. I'm happy to maintain the patch that Ha3481 made, since I know many players do love Dark Age, but it wouldn't be good for VC modding in general to merge the two mods, its better that each continues to offer a unique experience, with a compatibility version for those who want a hybrid. (And I've already got 3 full versions and a bunch of other downloads of optional addons and such to maintain, I could not add another alternate version to maintain, especially one that would differ in code to such a dramatic extent)
 

Drax70

Sergeant at Arms
Tingyun said:
The items and such were removed by Ha3481 when he made the compatibility version of Dark Age. Ha3481 has not to my knowledge released the source code for Dark Age. Worth noting that trying to add some of the excluded Dark Age content would also break save compatibility, and save compatibility is still relevant to many new players discovering Balance Mod (as can be seen just a few posts up). Besides, some people love Dark Age, but some people prefer the vanilla aesthetic. I'm happy to maintain the patch that Ha3481 made, since I know many players do love Dark Age, but it wouldn't be good for VC modding in general to merge the two mods, its better that each continues to offer a unique experience, with a compatibility version for those who want a hybrid. (And I've already got 3 full versions and a bunch of other downloads of optional addons and such to maintain, I could not add another alternate version to maintain, especially one that would differ in code to such a dramatic extent)

Fair enough!
But what about the armours? They are sure save game compatible, I think. It just changes the esthetics of the game, to give a more realistic tone to it!

Would you consider that?

Thanks!
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Everything else aside, as I mentioned Ha3481 has not to my knowledge released the Dark Age source code or given permission to use his code or assets in other mods.

Also, while I will continue to support Balance Mod and do some additional gameplay modding now and then, I’m working full-time (well, over 80 hours a week most of the time, so basically double-time) for Hooded Horse. It’s not just game design, it’s also handling our finances, management, meetings, publishing, etc.

I like where Balance Mod is at—after almost 2 years it has ended up comprehensive and polished, no bugs or major problems. I’ll continue adding gameplay improvements here and there, but merging stuff from other mods is time consuming and boring work, and then it requires extensive balancing to get the new stuff to fit, then extensive testing—it just doesn’t fit where Balance Mod is in its lifecycle.
 

Drax70

Sergeant at Arms
Tingyun said:
Everything else aside, as I mentioned Ha3481 has not to my knowledge released the Dark Age source code or given permission to use his code or assets in other mods.

Also, while I will continue to support Balance Mod and do some additional gameplay modding now and then, I’m working full-time (well, over 80 hours a week most of the time, so basically double-time) for Hooded Horse. It’s not just game design, it’s also handling our finances, management, meetings, publishing, etc.

I like where Balance Mod is at—after almost 2 years it has ended up comprehensive and polished, no bugs or major problems. I’ll continue adding gameplay improvements here and there, but merging stuff from other mods is time consuming and boring work, and then it requires extensive balancing to get the new stuff to fit, then extensive testing—it just doesn’t fit where Balance Mod is in its lifecycle.

Ok, but please, check the "Dark Age Graphic Modpack", it has issues with the map icons...
I also tried to play with the vanila ones, way better, immersive and polished, but the tarrain doesn't fit with the icons. (They are too bright  :cry: )

Anyway, whatever you decide, it's ok!

Keep it up and take care!!!  :grin:
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Drax70: The Dark Age Graphic Modpack is still Dark Age mod, I don't have the right to do anything with it. Ha3481 granted me permission to update and host the compatibility patch, not the modpack itself.
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Thank you Brytenwalda Studios! They kindly featured Balance Mod on their Twitter and Steam accounts today. I am deeply grateful to them, both for having produced such a fun game to play, and for the profound influence that modding has had on my own life.

https://twitter.com/BrytenwaldaTeam/status/1192122362268979200
 

Drax70

Sergeant at Arms
Hello Tingyun and Congratulations!

I found a "bug".... and a challenge for you!!!  :fruity:
The siege realism needs a little revamp, in my opinion.
It is unfair to loose high tier men because of an event that gives the player no alternative, but just see a popup-message that my best men are dead..
Why not, in every event, there will be a real combat? And if I loose my men in a skirmish fight, then so be it, not because of a random picking and a "Bad Choice"...

This is lazy programming... Again, in my opinion!

Thanks!
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Hi Drax70,

The VC siege event system hasn’t been modded. I think the idea from the VC devs was to convey the harsh reality of siege warfare, where disease and random skirmishes are as deadly as full battles. So I don’t think it was “lazy” at all, rather they had a particular vision in mind for the kind of world they wanted to show the player.

I have accumulated some player suggestions about the siege event system over the years, but I’ve tried to keep Balance Mod from deviating too far from the central atmosphere of VC, even though I have done a few things that depart a bit. Also, sadly, I’ve been so busy first modding and now with Hooded Horse, that I haven’t actually had a chance to play Viking Conquest in around a year. The curse of becoming a modder is that it displaces time to actually play. Consequently, I’m not sure I remember the player experience well enough at this point to attempt a comprehensive rebalance of a system like events. I think that calls for the attention of someone who has been running siege after siege, and has some real ideas to try out.

If someone wanted to create an events submod, that might work well. I imagine events are the kind of thing where there are a range of preferences, and we could then have some players try out the submod, and then perhaps either offer it as an optional add-on or integrate it into one or more of the full install options.
 

Drax70

Sergeant at Arms
So, no to every request then...  :sad:

Anyway, just a question,
Since you toned down the traveling, on realistic levels, then how many, ingame days, the game finish?
Or is it the Level of the player that defines that?

Thanks!

 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
Drax70 said:
So, no to every request then...  :sad:

Are you keeping score?

You asked me to do 3 things:

A) merge with a separate mod that I don’t have any rights to

B) fix map icons for a separate mod that I don’t have any rights to

C) rebalance a new system that I haven’t modded before

A and B were dead on arrival. I couldn’t have said yes even had I wanted to. Aside from that, I also explained that Balance Mod’s scope does not include aesthetic changes (I personally prefer vanilla VC’s visual style), and that player choice is best served by maintaining an optional compatibility patch for those who want the darker Dark Age style.

C I gave you a detailed explanation of why I was not in a good position to do personally, and I then stated that I would be happy to support any submod that attempted to do what you proposed.

The answer here is not to believe the unpaid modder is personally treating you unfairly by not granting a minimum quota of your requests. The answer is instead for you to learn modding, accept the modder’s support, and create your own submod.

Anyway, on your time question, it varies wildly, a storyline finish might be a year, a total conquest could take decades (in vanilla VC Lynxbuckler’s total conquest campaign went about 20 years: https://www.reddit.com/r/mountandblade/comments/7sbgk1/oct_7_886_day_6823_3_cities_20ish_castles_left_to/)
 

Plasquar

Grandmaster Knight
Tingyun said:
Thank you Brytenwalda Studios! They kindly featured Balance Mod on their Twitter and Steam accounts today. I am deeply grateful to them, both for having produced such a fun game to play, and for the profound influence that modding has had on my own life.

https://twitter.com/BrytenwaldaTeam/status/1192122362268979200

I just saw that as well.
It's always good to see that "big modders" and companies themselves acknowledge the work of other modders. 

:party:
 
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