In both cases these troops are portrayed in the lore as veteran battle orders. I totally agree. Also given how hard they are to obtain it seems pointless right now.
I really hope tw do a full rework of minor factions at some point.
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Troops that need changing in the near future
- Thread starter Totalgarbage
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I really hope tw do a full rework of minor factions at some point.
I disagree with this. Making them horse archers makes more sense lore-wise because they're hunters. Everyone already had hunting bows and they're just bringing it to battle. Throwing weapons will also have the effect of making them deadlier, which you might not want. They're fine as a wholly horse archer line who started as barely being able to hit to horseback snipers.
Very well, I'll get rid of it.
CrazyElf
Sergeant
Yep. Pikeman need a better loadout on top of the spear buff.
Bluko88
Sergeant
I disagree with this, Nobles used to be way too rare.
I believe the amount you see currently is appropriate. It may be easy for the player to abuse, but the player can abuse many things. Cultures need their Noble lines to be somewhat prominent otherwise you end up with Imperials without horseman and Battanians without archers.
Noble troops probably should have been recruited exclusively from Castles, but that's been shot down by the Devs.
Pikeman and Voulgier both definitely need their armor beefed up. (Should have decent shoulder piece at least)
I agree with better side arm, not so much the shield, since that defeats the purpose of being a pikeman to beginw tih.
Sad thing about Voulgiers too is Billman are probably better Shock Troops, while the Voulge having more reach is helpful sometimes, Billhook is usually better in most melee situations.
Don't think they need a shield, that's kind of crossbowmen's gig, though that would make unique. They definitely could use better arrows/bow, no doubt about that.
Probably the best thing to do. Fians are very strong, but they are also only true T6 infantry, so I've never considered them OP.
With cavalry being a serious threat to archers now, I don't think Fians are going to be as dominant as they used to be. They are a bit too strong in melee, and almost make Falxmen irrelevant for Battanians.
Falxman line is fine as it is, bit strange with Veterans having so little armor, but they are glass cannons.
They just need to take away their glaive. I'd opt to give them a saber instead. I don't think the glaive can really be balanced, other than by making it super slow.
Eh no. I appreciate trying to diversify the Khuzaits, but they really should be all about the horse archers.
Unfortunately TW did not really think out Noble lines that well. It's pretty redundant for Khuzait in particular.
Bluko88
Sergeant
I think the issue with Battania more then anything else is where it's on the map. Quite literally in the middle of everything so it's doomed to fail.
All of the border Kingdoms (Vlandia, Aserai, Sturgia, Khuzait) have a natural advantage in that they can't be attacked from as many directions. Those Kingdoms are meant to survive since they are ultimately what you see in Warband. The Empire and Battania, canonically speaking, aren't supposed to survive. Honestly if each Imperial faction were truly separate they'd all crumble too.
Problem with that is the battanian fian.
without this troop, the battanians wouldnt have any range unit to reach out to, making them completely weak in both simulations and real time fights. you could witness that on previous versions of the game, back when the spawn rate of noble units depended on the powerlevel of landlords.
the overall idea is good, as it would immediately lower the rate of cav units in battles, which is way too high atm. being able to reach out to noble units like it would be nothing is just a strange approach anyway. what is making them noble, if they are simply everywhere to be found.
that being said, and in addition with the ridiculous strength of the fian, it would be the best if the battanian archer would be nerfed to a non-noble, or to give the battanians an additional non-noble archer. both solutions would make room for a realistic discussion about decreasing the spawnrate of noble troops, which is very much needed.
I think they want them to show up with hoard of HA and this happens because of the double HA units. Aserai and Empire don't show up with large HA groups very often , but a Khuzait army will usually have 100-200 even if they're low tier.
Noble troops are in some cases easier to find than common troops, so aı think they should be a bit rarer, not too much tho I agree, that's why I suggested making them available after a recruitment slot, since the ai cheats and has access to more slots than the player as a default.
Cavalry is a threat to archers now, just not against Fians because Fians are too strong, I think maybe decreasing their weapon proficiencies by idk 20 seems fair.
I think the vet falxmen should use a shorter rhompaia (how they actually look like in real life iirc) like the one in RBM.
Fair enough with not giving the pikemen a shield, I'm okay with it.
I think sturgian bowmen should have something that sets them apart rather than being ****, it can either be more body armour or a shield (+ better arrows), i don't care which one.
I removed my suggestion for the commoner Khuzait HA line but they have too many HA that's why I want them to change it.
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I don't want to decrease the number of nobles too much, just a bit. They can be found almost more often than normal troops now. The reason I want to nerf the Fians is because they can even defeat high tier cavalry like elite cataphracts.
Right now I'd say every Khuzait, Aserai, Empire troop, at the top tier level at least, has equipment that makes sense and is effective.
Vlandia and Battania lag in the infantry department.
Sturgia lags heavily in the archer department.
I feel I'm most effective with a good mix of units with Aserai and Empire. They have strong units overall.
At certain point, when it's time to really doomstack...
With Battania, I might as well stack Fianns.
With Khuzait, even though they've got strong units of all types, I still might as well stack Khan's Guard.
With Sturgia, I might as well stack Druzhinniks.
With Vlandia, it's Banner Knights and/or Sharpshooters
T5 Pikemen/Voulgier/Falxmen are all too vulnerable to archers and have more awkward/niche 2H weapons than the Menavlion and Axes. The Menavlion also has IIRC the heaviest armor overall making it one of the most effective 2H infantry just due to taking less overall arrow damage too.
Any T5 Cav with a short 1H weapon is just a bad idea - the ones with 1h axes in particular are just comically bad.
Vlandia and Battania lag in the infantry department.
Sturgia lags heavily in the archer department.
I feel I'm most effective with a good mix of units with Aserai and Empire. They have strong units overall.
At certain point, when it's time to really doomstack...
With Battania, I might as well stack Fianns.
With Khuzait, even though they've got strong units of all types, I still might as well stack Khan's Guard.
With Sturgia, I might as well stack Druzhinniks.
With Vlandia, it's Banner Knights and/or Sharpshooters
T5 Pikemen/Voulgier/Falxmen are all too vulnerable to archers and have more awkward/niche 2H weapons than the Menavlion and Axes. The Menavlion also has IIRC the heaviest armor overall making it one of the most effective 2H infantry just due to taking less overall arrow damage too.
Any T5 Cav with a short 1H weapon is just a bad idea - the ones with 1h axes in particular are just comically bad.
well i wasnt saying that there should be no nobles too
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Everyone talks a lot about the glaives on the Khan's Guard, and while it makes sense I do think there is something to be said about how unique it makes them. Take it away, and what distinguishes them from other horse archers? Not much, apart from super skills and super armour.
If I were to change them, I'd make them a lot more lightly armoured. More like the older Darkhans here.
They're still quite well armoured for horse archer cav, without being as heavy as the real melee cavalry boys. Send them into melee if you want, but they'll die quicker than you might like.
I would then take away their second quiver and give them a sword or something. Redundant considering their glaive, but eh I think its better than just leaving a quiver empty.
Finally, I'd nerf their actual bow skill. Maybe they can't see so well through those masks. Maybe their armour gets in the way. Maybe I want them to not overshadow the regular horse archer at their own thing, and instead act as a remarkable all rounder, not a master of everything.
That's how I'd do it anyway.
As things are, they're too many damn nobles. They don't feel like an accent to your forces- they feel more like something you just spam when you so much as find the one village with all of them.
If they want to fix stuff, they should consider just expanding the commoner troop trees or replacing some troops. Its not hard to do and doesn't interfere with much.
If I were to change them, I'd make them a lot more lightly armoured. More like the older Darkhans here.
They're still quite well armoured for horse archer cav, without being as heavy as the real melee cavalry boys. Send them into melee if you want, but they'll die quicker than you might like.
I would then take away their second quiver and give them a sword or something. Redundant considering their glaive, but eh I think its better than just leaving a quiver empty.
Finally, I'd nerf their actual bow skill. Maybe they can't see so well through those masks. Maybe their armour gets in the way. Maybe I want them to not overshadow the regular horse archer at their own thing, and instead act as a remarkable all rounder, not a master of everything.
That's how I'd do it anyway.
Only reason I don't want noble rarity to go down is because it would affect my mod... which is designed around the assumption that the devs will not nerf current noble spawn rates.
As things are, they're too many damn nobles. They don't feel like an accent to your forces- they feel more like something you just spam when you so much as find the one village with all of them.
If they want to fix stuff, they should consider just expanding the commoner troop trees or replacing some troops. Its not hard to do and doesn't interfere with much.
Honestly, the way pavises work in this game are stupid, as is the way they design crossbowmen. I'd rather something like crossbows being better at actually hitting and hurting things than the average archer, while being much easier to train. Otherwise a top archer should beat a top crossbowman, power for power.
I frankly have no issue with them, if not for how easy they are to get. If rare, I'd say they feel as special and distinct as they ought to be.
Some are fine, but others are not. The Khan's Guard is well beyond the pale though imo, even in the ideal world where ranged combat is nerfed down.
I don't want to remove the glaives from the KG, I also think that the glaives are part of the KG's character. I just want to nerf their damage. Lower armor can also work, they don't really need high armor anyways, the damage on the glaive is just too overdone though. Horse archers in general are too strong (except the lowest tier ones, they are just annoying), so that's why I also want the Khuzait commoner horse archer line to be made into a horse skirmisher line, their ranged sustain will be greatly shortened with less ammo, and a well trained infantry army will be able to defeat the Khuzait more reasonably in general. Khuzait won't be able fielding 30% HA army if their only HA is the Khan's Guard.
I think just the fact pavises exist in this timeframe the game is based on is stupid. Granted, there are so many more issues regarding armor and the time period, such as the Cuman/Kipchak helmet worn by the Darkhan and KG, but I hate the pavise more for some reason. It's also stupid that crossbowmen can somehow shoot from farther away than composite and longbows (iirc, effective crossbow range is 200m, longbow range is 175m and shortbow range is 150m in the game).
The problem with Fian Champions is just how absurdly strong they are, regardless of availability they can defeat tier 6 cavalry 1v1 or en masse. It should be the other way. They dominate tier 6 cavalry even if they are holding fire.
I think just the fact pavises exist in this timeframe the game is based on is stupid. Granted, there are so many more issues regarding armor and the time period, such as the Cuman/Kipchak helmet worn by the Darkhan and KG, but I hate the pavise more for some reason. It's also stupid that crossbowmen can somehow shoot from farther away than composite and longbows (iirc, effective crossbow range is 200m, longbow range is 175m and shortbow range is 150m in the game).
The problem with Fian Champions is just how absurdly strong they are, regardless of availability they can defeat tier 6 cavalry 1v1 or en masse. It should be the other way. They dominate tier 6 cavalry even if they are holding fire.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
I feel like a greater evaluation on combat should be the key.
Provided they are heavy enough, let cavalry just crush anything without a spear at bare minimum. Nerf ranged damage. That sort of thing.
True, thankfully cavalry is so much better after 1.9. I agree that ranged damage is still a bit too much.
There are issues with other troops regardless of the state of cavalry and ranged damage, such as aesthetic issues, unit design, loadouts (especially Vlandians with shoulder gear), recruitability, redundancy and troops like KG being jack of all trades.
There are issues with other troops regardless of the state of cavalry and ranged damage, such as aesthetic issues, unit design, loadouts (especially Vlandians with shoulder gear), recruitability, redundancy and troops like KG being jack of all trades.
Halvdan
Recruit
Agree sturgia should have the heaviest infantry lines. Not noble calvary.
five bucks
Knight at Arms
+1, all really good
My one piece of feedback... I don't think the Fian Champion necessarily needs a direct nerf; I think reducing damage of arrows/bolts to armor across the board should be enough of a nerf. If Fian Champion killed T5 units in 7-8 hits instead of 4-5 hits, it would be a balanced unit.
Eh, I agree that an arrow nerf is warranted, but in 1.9, in my limited testing, the fians still decimated t6 cavalry units on hold fire. Maybe we should give the rhomphaia to the Fian Champions instead?
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