Troops that need changing in the near future

Users who are viewing this thread

Here are some of my proposed troop changes for the near future:

- Making all noble troops harder to hire (one way of doing this would be making them available only after the 4th recruitment slot and onwards in castle villages)
- Adding Vlandian noble line the newly added shoulder pieces
- Making the Vlandian common cavalry line use normal horses to make them a cheaper alternative to the noble line (may be unpopular)
- Buffing the Vlandian pikeman by giving better armor, a better sidearm and maybe a shield to go with the sidearm
- Giving the Sturgian noble line 2-handed axes.
- Giving the Sturgian veteran bowman a shield and a stronger stack of arrows
- Nerfing the Fian Champions... somehow (maybe by lowering the weapon proficiencies?)
- Changing the weapon of the Battanian Veteran Falxman from a Rhomphaia to a Falx sword (may be unpopular) and giving the unit better head & shoulder armor overall
- Nerfing the Khuzait Khan's guard by lowering the damage of his glaive
- Changing the common Khuzait horse archer line to a horse skirmisher line with throwing weapons and sabre & shield (may be unpopular)
- Making the minor faction troops recruitable
- Making the minor faction troops' strongest units tier 5
- Overhauling the equipment of minor faction troops to include newly added armor pieces
- Adding "Northern" and "Southern" variants for mercenaries which include a spear infantry, a foot skirmisher, a foot archer and a melee cavalry (which may or may not be using camels)
- Giving the Sword Sister line better armor and helmets
- Changing the armor of the eastern mercenary troops so that the two separate lines look more alike rather than a random mishmash of unrelated cultures


Tell me your opinions on these proposed changes and please write here if you have any additional proposals
 
Last edited:

Svenald

Recruit
VLA pikemen are so useless imo. AI just hasn't been great enough to take full advantage of the pike. Much better than it used to be but still not amazing. Should allow them to walk with the brace.
 
Slowly walking while braced - similar speed to walking with your shield up, but maybe +/- 5-10% on that would help the pikemen be more useful - and giving more tiers of them in Vlandia too. There should be T6s in the regular line and T7s (the icon exists) in Nobles if needed (for everyone).

I will continue to ask for regular light cavalry in the Empire in lieu of the Crossbows. And also adding a branched line in the Empire Nobility to have the cataphracts as well as armored horse archers - similar to the Khuzait noble line but with slower horses and less ranged skills.

I don't think we really need any nerfs now that formations and their AI and performance are better. A Fian will still get run down by T4 cav if you flank them, for instance. And couch-lance cav head on charging into Khans Guards will also mangle them pretty good before being mowed down by glaives.

Wish the Cataphract Lance/Kontos had a way to be braced as well....

Also bring back the Skirmisher AI profile to give javelin/throwing weapon equipped troops a better behavior set - e.g., they'll come in advance and throw all of their weapons and then immediately retreat behind the infantry before joining up with them in melee. Similar for skirmish-cav: have them target the enemy cav at distance and retreat in behind melee cav.
 

Qwezz

Sergeant at Arms
Change sturgia nobles into inf pls. We have enough mounted nobles.
Then change the stugian heavy axeman troop path into mid tier cav.
 
Pikemen are messes in general, just getting them to stand in front of the formation and facing the enemy by themselves would be a great improvement by itself.

I don't like the idea of giving Sturgia a noble infantry line. They already have 3 infantry troop lines and an archer whose niche is being better at melee. Having a foot soldier for a noble troop would both invalidate a unit and also be a bad unit by itself. The only reason the fian is as good as it already is due to it being a ranged troop. A melee noble unit would probably be terrible at survival.
 
Last edited:

CrazyElf

Sergeant
Spears in general need a buff. It's not just a Pikeman issue.

Similarly, arrows in general need a nerf. It's not just a Fian issue.
 
Just give the Druzhinnik a war razor or a greataxe and they'll feel better and distinct. They're already capable as foot infantry, its just that you have to dismount them to do so.
 

BigFat

Sergeant
I agree, I would love to see Sturgia have a unit like the sea raider captain, with a 1h and shield and a 2h weapon. It would at least set them apart
 

Antaeus

Squire
Spears in general need a buff. It's not just a Pikeman issue.

Similarly, arrows in general need a nerf. It's not just a Fian issue.
Top tier heavy cavalry are better pikemen than any pikemen. Not literally, but contextually.

They're good enough when dismounted at defending against other cavalry + you can mount them again and use them as cavalry. For this reason I never hire pikemen.

I agree, I would love to see Sturgia have a unit like the sea raider captain, with a 1h and shield and a 2h weapon. It would at least set them apart

This is a good idea... there is no context for Sturgia to have horse archer generals, with no other horse archer troops.
 
Top tier heavy cavalry are better pikemen than any pikemen. Not literally, but contextually.

They're good enough when dismounted at defending against other cavalry + you can mount them again and use them as cavalry. For this reason I never hire pikemen.
Tbh they're better due to having so much more armor, better sidearms and shields. If they gave the pikemen better gear, they would be more useful in both spear bracing and not dying in close combat.
 

geala

Squire
I use very different troop trees than vanilla, so I don't have much to propose, but I find it very comforting to give any cavalry with armored horses slow horses. It is annoying that the best armored cavalry is the fastest at the same time.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Just give the Druzhinnik a war razor or a greataxe and they'll feel better and distinct. They're already capable as foot infantry, its just that you have to dismount them to do so.
Yes, yes, yes.

It fits the theme of Sturgians needing something to counter Khuzait horse archer tactics, it actually works to purpose in-game and is at least somewhat historical.
 

Antaeus

Squire
I use very different troop trees than vanilla, so I don't have much to propose, but I find it very comforting to give any cavalry with armored horses slow horses. It is annoying that the best armored cavalry is the fastest at the same time.

I'm not going to speak for 1.9, because I haven't gone far there yet... but I'd argue that the Imperial heavy cavalry line is the best because of the above (the dual use as pikemen, the heavy armour, survivability etc), but as of 1.8.1 they're the slowest of the heavy cavalry.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
All the minor faction troops need a total review.

  1. They should end at tier 5
  2. They should be easier to gather
  3. They could benefit from all the new items introduced being worked into their designs.
 
Oh damn I totally forgot about minor factions. I'll add all your suggestions to the list. I'll also add that there should be northern and southern mercenaries and some tweaks to the newly added mercenary troops.
 
Last edited:

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
I think the armor of higher tier troops (cav and infantry) need to be better and that ranged and glaive damage is fine. It's good to 1hko lower tier units and for ranged damage to clear them out easily and quickly. Only t4-6 should tough enough to put up a fight against t6 units of any type. But it should be the advantage of heavy cav and infantry to actually be harder to kill and last longer. And of course this is for high tier versus lower tier cav and infantry too, any time a 4-6 unit is ">>>>by recruit" it's shows a problem with the damage and skill systems.
iving the Sword Sister line better armor and helmets
I agree.
The rest of your ideas are better off in a personal mod for you, I don't think they reflect any overall improvements that could be made.
 
Yeah you're probably right, although I want to reach more of a general consensus on what we the devs to change, so if you can share your ideas on which changes I should keep and which I should scrap it would be great, because I'm aware that not all my suggestions are popular.

I think higher tier troops are good where they are now in comparison to lower tiers. Looters, low level bandits, militia and low level troops don't really kill much anymore (although archers are a bit too powerful still imo). Most high tier troops aren't really tanks but they generally dunk really on low tier troops in terms of K/D (except the veteran falxman, that guy still has problems) and the new AI movement update has made it so that enemies don't swarm as much, making the high tiers more likely to survive in melee in my experience. I don't want the disparity between high and low level troops to be as drastic as in RBM.
 
If what I'm seeing of the culture.xml is right, it would be possible to stash all sorts of troops into it. If so, I would love to see Minor faction troops in them too... but they're suitably buffed.

Legion of the Betrayed and the Skoldabrotva especially ought to hit t5 power at least considering their elite status.
 
Top Bottom