Taleworlds, where is the Transparency & Communication? :(

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Yes, I might have misphrased.

Truth is, these forums aren't going to decide whether this game is FINANCIALLY successful or not.

Sorry for the confusion.

As for your question, simple. Sales. Your points on best seller are obsolete, it is simply a fact lol. I don't care if it holds it for another 2 days, I really don't understand why you are now contradicting yourself too. Cyberpunk and Vampires are for sure going to outsell BL, but they haven't released so they shouldn't be apart of the equation(according to your own words).
1: Can you really consider an unfinished product, as a best-seller? when its actual full release date isn't, in fact of said year?
3: Ouch, someone should go out and find a bandaid for TW.
Also ouch fans of Cyberpunk 2077 and Vampires - The Masquerade Bloodlines II: thin-bloods
The same should go for these unreleased games no? They are unfinished and not even out right? Why mention them at all?

No, I firmly believe that it's better, for the most part, being left in the dark, so each of us is testing the game in our own unique way. Testers don't need direction for what to test for, read the release notes, understand the mechanics of the game, and figure out in what way you can break them
This is the sole purpose of what is called the QA team. The difference is, not all of the 5 million who bought the game go on these forums, which is why it would be crucial to extend outside of the QA team since many long time fans(and new ones) inhabit it. This is literally one of the reasons the beta/alpha exists, in case you aren't aware. BL is too complex a game, and the reason they released it in EA is that they needed help with more testers. Some things that haven't made the list of known issues are being reported here, usually in the hopes of seeing if they aren't outliers, but right now these problems are either confirmed by devs in replies and usually aren't edited into the patch notes.

Similarly, it's not like pinpoint issues, and communication isn't happening. What you consider inefficient isn't changing the fact that it is still being practiced, though on a smaller scale. We are simply asking it to be on a larger scale.

Example:
I need save files for "lords going bankrupt" issue. I am making some tests and I see very less number of lords going bankrupt and they recover in short term. If you have any save file showing this situation (especially ones who cannot recover or most of lords of a kingdom in bankrupt) you can upload and send me.

Edit : I find one sample. Aserai leader Unqid was in bankrupt. He had 225 troops using 100% party size so do not consider taking men from garrison even garrisons have more than expected (in bankrupt they take men from garrison to lower costs). Also Aserai has no enemy in current game and he cannot find a way to attack and lower his party men count. There is no mechanism for now to disband troops for AI. Maybe it should be added.
In case you don' know, this is a developer, he is literally asking people on a pinpointed problem - not in the patch notes - for help. Source
 
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Kahpya

Recruit
M&BWB
Yes, I might have misphrased.

Truth is, these forums aren't going to decide whether this game is FINANCIALLY successful or not.

Sorry for the confusion.
Okay, that clarifies your point of view. Thank you for clearing that up for me. Though I do disagree with it, while it's more likely that the masses are swayed by a review written on a dedicated site for such things, a review on Youtube or similar sites. Most of the things they point out has been around the forums a long time before they even did the review. A journalist's job isn't a discovery of new and interesting things, they gather the information that has already happen and present that information in the best possible way to underline their point of view. Just to clarify, I'm not saying these people couldn't have found out all that information, they present, themselves, but why reinvent the wheel?

For journalist: It's my basic understanding, that's what you do, feel free to correct me if your point of view on the profession differs a lot from my own.

As for your question, simple. Sales.
Again, you've completely missed answering the question, I didn't ask how you personally evaluate when a product is a success. I was asking what is the deciding factor when creating a product, that has an impact on the success of, said product? Because you clearly with your previous statements don't think this forum (or any forum) contributes to the success of this (or any) product.

Your points on best seller are obsolete, it is simply a fact lol. I don't care if it holds it for another 2 days, I really don't understand why you are now contradicting yourself too. Cyberpunk and Vampires are for sure going to outsell BL, but they haven't released so they shouldn't be apart of the equation(according to your own words).
The same should go for these unreleased games no? They are unfinished and not even out, right? Why mention them at all?
Was it late when you wrote this? you seem to be repeating yourself. Though I concede your point since I wasn't being clear on mine.

Bestseller of 2020 with this buggy mess? Why? Because it still beats most AAA products out there still.
You call this a buggy mess and have bought it, only, because it still beats most AAA products out there. I would consider that a direct insult to TW and all other AAA products by your own definition. Why? Because you've already stated that, the way, you, perceive a product's success, is, in fact, profits - or in your direct paraphrasing "sales". furthermore, you wrote:

5 million who bought the game
While the numbers I've read puts the sales between two to five million copies sold (I think there's a difference in a 3 million tolerance on the sales numbers), within the first month of an EA (so not the complete game) and that Cyberpunk 2077 is estimated to have sales in the 20 million at its release, you still don't even remotely think that Bannerlords, could be, considered, a Triple-A title of 2021-22? When it's going to be a full release.

This is the sole purpose of what is called the QA team. The difference is, not all of the 5 million who bought the game go on these forums, which is why it would be crucial to extend outside of the QA team since many long time fans(and new ones) inhabit it. This is literally one of the reasons the beta/alpha exists, in case you aren't aware. BL is too complex a game, and the reason they released it in EA is that they needed help with more testers. Some things that haven't made the list of known issues are being reported here, usually in the hopes of seeing if they aren't outliers, but right now these problems are either confirmed by devs in replies and usually aren't edited into the patch notes.

Similarly, it's not like pinpoint issues, and communication isn't happening. What you consider inefficient isn't changing the fact that it is still being practiced, though on a smaller scale. We are simply asking it to be on a larger scale.
I can only assume you haven't read the full post your commenting on since I've already given my point of view on this. So I'm going to quote myself and leave it with this post, and that "5 million testers" theory, by your very own definition, doesn't come to this forum, can they then, be considered actual tester of the game? they might not even report crashes, we can't actually know what they are doing, can we?

I wrote a reply to the OP:
I agree with you to some extent that a little more communication, is not going to hurt them. But that doesn't mean what your asking for can't be in direct conflict with what this part of the EA is about.

And that could be one of the reasons that they don't just put up one sticky post. Simply because it would create too much attention, so most of the forum would then be "blinded" by the angel lights, and they would miss a majority of the diversity that the tester/players have at the moment. This could then lead to oversights that have to be corrected later. Now that argument could also be made for the direct opposite.

Which leads me to my last point, this is also why it should be up to the developers, to make that decision and not fall to some misguided peer-pressure of the masses. Simply because we don't know anything, which also means we would have a very limited understanding of what that decision entails, and what consequences that would have on the end-product.
To clarify, just because you think, you can be of better use, as a tester by doing it "your way", doesn't mean you're going to be.

In case you don' know, this is a developer, he is literally asking people on a pinpointed problem - not in the patch notes - for help. Source
I know. I have read some of his posts, though not all, simply because I don't feel that's the best way to help the development of this product overall. Again you've been smart enough to find him so why not just follow him and read his post so you can test that game "your way". No need to involve everybody else. Let the developers decide when, and how, we as forum-user/testers can be best utilized as a group.
 

TrashMan

Regular
Inappropriate behavior
This company does the feedback & communication well + roadmap etc.

So does

Both of these companies probably have less devs than TW.... I don't think it would be difficult for them to do at all TBH

Agreed. I bought Empyrion and am very happy with the communication, even if the development is slow and some of the things in the game piss me off to no end.

- snip -
 
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xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
No, I'm directing this to the community in general, BlackRainZ, and the people who are namecalling and using personal attacks just like him.
alas, sometimes that's unavoidable, although I do recognize that here and there I go a little beyond the limits
 
Look man, I respect your opinion and everything but you clearly aren't making sense at this point.

As for your question again, then a deciding factor would be the drive of the developers. Other than that, community involvement is HUGE, no matter the form.

Respectively, I'll assume it's because English isn't your first language that a few keywords are flying over your head, as well as interpreting things that so very clearly aren't what they are such as my ¿ hate? for TW.

But for crying out loud half of your points are from my previous point despite me not stating an opinion, but a fact on something you misinterpreted as something else.

To clarify, just because you think, you can be of better use, as a tester by doing it "your way", doesn't mean you're going to be.
It doesn't matter what YOU or I think! The developers of this game are interacting individually in the replies of threads. People believe that if you are going to be here responding, might as well make it a larger announcement instead of having people speculate.

In the end, we agree to disagree, but please do understand that the middle of your last post was just pure nonsense, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, it just was.
 
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kreamy

Sergeant
Agreed. I bought Empyrion and am very happy with the communication, even if the development is slow and some of the things in the game piss me off to no end.

Anyone defending TW's shenanigans need to be shot.
lol. +1 with everything you mentioned. I use them as an example, bcuz with a tiny team, they have really accomplished
A) a lot in 5 years
B) they communicate it well, and thats really the main point - even with a small team.
 

Fantomen

Regular
WBVC
I actually feel both the communication and development pace feels pretty good, especially for being in the middle of a pandemic. Working from home tends to make the workflow a little more ad hoc, so I can't really blame them if they do things a bit as they come right now. The patch notes themselves tell us a lot and a couple of the devs answers in the forum now and then. Of course it could be better but I'm not gonna complain at this point.
 

haws3r

Regular
M&BWBWF&S
I too would like to see more transparency and communication.
For example 1.4.0 beta is a major disappointment. Been waiting for 2 weeks and they come up with this? I even told my buddy they must have been working on something big man, it's been 2 weeks, wooooo I'm so excited, and what do I get? Quest fixes. :sad:
Had I known right from the start there would be nothing more the impact would have been less severe. :xf-cry:
 

takatoo

Recruit
M&BWBNW
I suspect that the problem at Taleworld's end is not so much an unwillingness or incapability, but a lack of things to communicate about.
They currently seem to be working on stability and crashfixing, so the game is works for everyone before piling on new content.
There is not much they can say about that, this might just be the most uninteresting point of the development cycle from our point of view.
 
Communication is ok from TW, in my eyes, enough interaction on the forums etc. The one criticism I do have, however, is the lack of a roadmap or at the very least a post vaguely telling us their priorities for the coming months (unless I missed it?). Nothing has to be concrete, just let us know what to expect and what not to get attached to that's currently in the game. The post can even be as simple as:

"Hey guys,

Kingdom diplo -> fief management -> spears -> combat ai ->main quest

These are our aims over the next year or so, no timeframes and order of priority might change.

Cheers,

TW"

Yes it'd be a tad blunt, but it would give the customers an idea as to what they have invested £40 in to. We are still paying for the final product, not the game as it is in EA. Knowing how the game is going to change from EA to release is kinda important information to pass on to those customers.
 
Communication is ok from TW, in my eyes, enough interaction on the forums etc. The one criticism I do have, however, is the lack of a roadmap or at the very least a post vaguely telling us their priorities for the coming months (unless I missed it?). Nothing has to be concrete, just let us know what to expect and what not to get attached to that's currently in the game. The post can even be as simple as:

"Hey guys,

Kingdom diplo -> fief management -> spears -> combat ai ->main quest

These are our aims over the next year or so, no timeframes and order of priority might change.

Cheers,

TW"

Yes it'd be a tad blunt, but it would give the customers an idea as to what they have invested £40 in to. We are still paying for the final product, not the game as it is in EA. Knowing how the game is going to change from EA to release is kinda important information to pass on to those customers.

Still pretty vague but at least it's there.
 
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