Tactical decisions on the battlefield should play a bigger role in deciding the tide of battle

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I really have come to resent having to manually aim my troops at the enemy for them to shoot.....'good enough'. I don't know what even changes in the AI but if you don't face direction they're like twice as slow to shoot or they just don't track as well, I don't know but I hate it. I also hate having to drag mounted troops into enemies to get them to fight and actually hit enemies.

I wish I could choose where they start on the map and their opening formations, before battle. I hate so much having to hurry and do the same formations and movements every single battle. And make no mistake, if I don't do everything as optimally as possible troops die because they can't defend themselves. It's kill first or nothing. I wish there was surgery from warband, as good as in warband.
 
That makes that even worse...

I thought that he might have meant that, but I really thought it was just miscommunication because the other alternative is WF&S, and everyone in the community believes that to be the "worst" out of the franchise. Unless, that is to say, he himself believes WF&S to be objectively superior to VC, there would be no point in comparing WF&S with BL since we have VC at a higher pedestal.

He said VC was the only one that was good. "Worth a damn" means it is good. But even that is probably Reforged edition talking.

It was a good experience though, with a year's worth of polish. But it is going to be much easier to get Bannerlord to that state, because its balancing is aiming for a bit more diversity in terms of troops and tactics. They aren't just going to have cripplemounts like ponies all over the place. And leveling up troops is clearly intended to be part of that experience, unlike VC where it was, uh, let's just say it was different than native.

I'm hoping that they can get spacing for the fights; in the video you posted there was ample room between each man for them to freely maneuver. My memory of sieges in VC has faded to the point of being useless but even just having space to retain some element of footwork would make fighting on foot feel much better than it does at present, having to push my way through my own men and then being pressed right up against the enemy.

Other than that, I doubt formations will help much just because there are already formation mods and unless you go full static, no attacking with overlapping shields, your troops still die insanely fast once the lines meet.

VC was nowhere near as bad as Bannerlord was at release. The things people were claiming about it when it came out was drastically different from my launch date experiences. I may have just been lucky, but I can't imagine it being anywhere near as bad as Bannerlord during launch. Launch day Bannerlord was so broken it was funny.

Either you were lucky or you were playing Reforged edition. Just the fact they had a re-release a year later should tell you how bad its launch was. Anyone can still see the posts from that time on this forum, just go all the way back in the VC forum and check if you don't believe that VC was a sailing dumpster fire for the first few months.

I really have come to resent having to manually aim my troops at the enemy for them to shoot.....'good enough'. I don't know what even changes in the AI but if you don't face direction they're like twice as slow to shoot or they just don't track as well, I don't know but I hate it. I also hate having to drag mounted troops into enemies to get them to fight and actually hit enemies.

I wish I could choose where they start on the map and their opening formations, before battle. I hate so much having to hurry and do the same formations and movements every single battle. And make no mistake, if I don't do everything as optimally as possible troops die because they can't defend themselves. It's kill first or nothing. I wish there was surgery from warband, as good as in warband.

If you don't force a facing, the archers will semi-continuously turn their formation in place and waste time they should spend shooting on dancing back and forth to get the perfect ninety degree angle to the enemy. By giving them a facing, the thing that changes is the AI mostly stops its micro-maneuvering and focuses on just putting arrows downrange.

As for surgery in Warband vs. medicine in Bannerlord, someone who actually dug through the code pointed out that the benefits of the skill are vastly underrated:

(Taken from some dude on Discord)
T0: 2.91%
T1: 15.25%
T2: 24.81%
T3: 32.43%
T4: 38.65%
T5: 43.82%
T6: 48.18%
At medicine 100:
T0: 50.7%
T1: 54.1%
T2: 57.0%
T3: 59.6%
T4: 61.9%
T5: 64.0%
T6: 65.8%
Medicine 330 (the highest native)
T0: 76.9%
T1: 77.6%
T2: 78.4%
T3: 79.0%
T4: 79.7%
T5: 80.3%
T6: 80.8%
 
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The fact that people are even comparing bannerlord to games in the series that are 6-10 years of age now, on a far worse engine, and genuinely coming up with decent arguments it's just shameful for the current state lol

Jeez what has game development become at this point.
 
Has anyone noticed when placing troops somewhere regardless of formation they may not be in the "face enemy" formation? I found a lot of my infantry were getting wrecked from that.

This happens with archers as well. Make sure You guys are checking f2/f2. Hope that gets fixed AND hopefully shield units go in front of units with no shields. I shouldn't have to break off different units. It shouldn't be a difficult fix, right?

The other complaint of battles ending quickly. Yeah, the morale in battles needs to be adjusted, or high Lord armies should not retreat at all. Especially siege situations as defender imo.
 
Has anyone noticed when placing troops somewhere regardless of formation they may not be in the "face enemy" formation? I found a lot of my infantry were getting wrecked from that.

This happens with archers as well. Make sure You guys are checking f2/f2. Hope that gets fixed AND hopefully shield units go in front of units with no shields. I shouldn't have to break off different units. It shouldn't be a difficult fix, right?

The other complaint of battles ending quickly. Yeah, the morale in battles needs to be adjusted, or high Lord armies should not retreat at all. Especially siege situations as defender imo.

I have way too many men retreating at sieges, good heavens, stay and fight.
 
He said VC was the only one that was good. "Worth a damn" means it is good. But even that is probably Reforged edition talking.

It was a good experience though, with a year's worth of polish. But it is going to be much easier to get Bannerlord to that state, because its balancing is aiming for a bit more diversity in terms of troops and tactics. They aren't just going to have cripplemounts like ponies all over the place. And leveling up troops is clearly intended to be part of that experience, unlike VC where it was, uh, let's just say it was different than native.

I'm hoping that they can get spacing for the fights; in the video you posted there was ample room between each man for them to freely maneuver. My memory of sieges in VC has faded to the point of being useless but even just having space to retain some element of footwork would make fighting on foot feel much better than it does at present, having to push my way through my own men and then being pressed right up against the enemy.

Other than that, I doubt formations will help much just because there are already formation mods and unless you go full static, no attacking with overlapping shields, your troops still die insanely fast once the lines meet.



Either you were lucky or you were playing Reforged edition. Just the fact they had a re-release a year later should tell you how bad its launch was. Anyone can still see the posts from that time on this forum, just go all the way back in the VC forum and check if you don't believe that VC was a sailing dumpster fire for the first few months.



If you don't force a facing, the archers will semi-continuously turn their formation in place and waste time they should spend shooting on dancing back and forth to get the perfect ninety degree angle to the enemy. By giving them a facing, the thing that changes is the AI mostly stops its micro-maneuvering and focuses on just putting arrows downrange.

As for surgery in Warband vs. medicine in Bannerlord, someone who actually dug through the code pointed out that the benefits of the skill are vastly underrated:

(Taken from some dude on Discord)
T0: 2.91%
T1: 15.25%
T2: 24.81%
T3: 32.43%
T4: 38.65%
T5: 43.82%
T6: 48.18%
At medicine 100:
T0: 50.7%
T1: 54.1%
T2: 57.0%
T3: 59.6%
T4: 61.9%
T5: 64.0%
T6: 65.8%
Medicine 330 (the highest native)
T0: 76.9%
T1: 77.6%
T2: 78.4%
T3: 79.0%
T4: 79.7%
T5: 80.3%
T6: 80.8%
Do higher tier get higher survival rate in BL? I didn't even know that if that' what that means.
It's kinda hard to get medicine though, my good medic with 5 int and 5 medicine and level only level 10 has gone from 120-130 in a massive amount of game time. Where as in warband a Lady can get max surgery incredibly fast... I forget how low I got it but it was pretty bananas.
 
Either you were lucky or you were playing Reforged edition. Just the fact they had a re-release a year later should tell you how bad its launch was. Anyone can still see the posts from that time on this forum, just go all the way back in the VC forum and check if you don't believe that VC was a sailing dumpster fire for the first few months.
Oh, I was playing it the day it first came out in 2014. I mentioned that at the time, people were presenting a far different experience than what I had. Reforged happened seven months after the initial release and by then all the issues were pretty much completely ironed out with all kinds of new stuff. VC even in its day one release was nowhere near as bad as Bannerlord, I genuinely think a lot of the positive response to Bannerlord's release was people just giving them the benefit of the doubt and having a positive outlook because everyone was waiting for so long and was so much anticipating it. That and the new graphics paint job and animations helped hide how much it really compares to the previous games. Reforged took seven months and by contrast, we're three months after Bannerlord came out and while most of the worst, absurd game-breaking stuff is patched, none of the missing features are really in place, and the game is clearly nowhere near done with tons of issues. Not to mention how something always seems to break after every patch, thus creating a new issue. I wouldn't doubt it if the fat people thing is still there too, since when I last played in May, I still had to use the mod that fixes it. Bannerlord will take a couple of years, and I guarantee you the game will be disappointing until the modders do the job.
 
Do higher tier get higher survival rate in BL? I didn't even know that if that' what that means.
It's kinda hard to get medicine though, my good medic with 5 int and 5 medicine and level only level 10 has gone from 120-130 in a massive amount of game time. Where as in warband a Lady can get max surgery incredibly fast... I forget how low I got it but it was pretty bananas.

Higher tier units get higher rates of survival, yes. The easiest way to get medicine 100 is to simply hire a companion for it. Ymira could level up Surgery pretty fast, yes, but companions in general could level up much faster in Warband.

Oh, I was playing it the day it first came out in 2014. I mentioned that at the time, people were presenting a far different experience than what I had.

Then why would you post like our experiences with it were unusual?
 
Higher tier units get higher rates of survival, yes. The easiest way to get medicine 100 is to simply hire a companion for it. Ymira could level up Surgery pretty fast, yes, but companions in general could level up much faster in Warband.



Then why would you post like our experiences with it were unusual?
That's good to know. I hired a companion with 120 medicine but it's very slow to raise for him even though his stats are good for learning it.
When I said a Lady I meant if you create a female main character in warband, you can get Int to 26(and read book) very fast at a low level and thus have 14 surgery . I think it's like level 14 but could have been even lower. It's immensely better then using a companion IMO.
 
I totally agree. Something halfway between what was achieved in VC and the formation boxes of the typical rts style game.


Why don't we have this behavior on Bannerlord as a natural evolution?


tenor.gif


"Too complex", "not fun for the player"... every time I read this kind of comment I think if you (Taleworlds) really know what your target/customer/fan wants.


Oh snap and here I was complaining about what Paradox games did wrong with their games. Didn’t realize TaleWorlds thought mount and blade was for adhd simpletons. Explains a TON
 
I think the absolutely simplest way to achieve more tactical gameplay are these four things:

1) Increase base party sizes, increase size of AI party templates, increase the amount of recruits available, increase the amount of infantry the AI brings into battle (TLDR: Increase the overall size of parties, especially infantry)
2) Increase default movement speed of troops, increase the effect of Athlethics.
3) Make it easier to divide army groups mid-battle, currently the keybinds for it feels a little bit unnatural.
4) Program the AI to divide its infantry into numerous groups if it feels like it has enough infantry to form a strong "centre core", and use the new smaller groups to attempt flanking maneuvers. Also make the AI create new infantry groups to protect the core of its army from flanking enemy AI/the player, if it determines that the enemy is attempting to flank it.

Implementing these things will make the player:
A) Make the player have to watch out for the AI attempting flanking not only with cavalry, but also with infantry.
B) Give the player more opportunities to attempt flanking against the AI because now the average army will be larger and contain more infantry.

We can discuss addition of more tactical elements to battles besides these things. But in my eyes the implementation of these four points is a necessary starting point for even the slightest semblence of tactical gameplay.
 
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