Rocks (looters, peasants) should not damage heavy armored units! Please have some sense about damage calc

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AnandaShanti

Knight at Arms
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I have 45-65 armor on every body part. I still just lost 40% hp from chip damage from peasants throwing rocks while killing a garrison!
That's garbage! That much armor should be ZERO DAMAGE FROM LOW TIER UNITS, no matter what.
I don't care what brainy ideas led to this bad design. It needs to be changed.
 

Dr-Shinobi

Squire
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0
you must got hit in the face and need to put the visor down sir.....dont think ive ever got that much hp taken on a rock and im wearing 9 in armor and no helmet. But yeah youre right in that regard though. Hvy armor shouldnt be effected by it that much if so
 

Mushbeast

Sergeant
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0
I believe they said they'll be doing an overhaul on armor (at the very least on units stats balance-wise). It'd be awesome if rocks really just dinked off heavy armor for no effect or a measly one damage. Possibly even weak bows too.

I love using the Khan's Guards metal shield (on MP, not sure what the SP equivelant is) because of that sweet sweet metal-on-metal clanging noise when it gets hit. Would be dope to have that apply for armors too.
 

Peanut_Brother

Regular
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0
For me, the main problem isn't the stone damage, it's that EVERY looter has stones. It's like getting hit with a shotgun when approaching charging looters. I think this issue will be instantly solved as soon as looters have variety. Some should have stones, or a shield, or even a horse. It would be a lot more interesting to fight them, early game.
 

Dr-Shinobi

Squire
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0
So! I just got hit by a rock by a looter, naked to add without armor (since im playing as an barbarian)...well got boots.... And he did only 15 in damage (which is equivalent to 15% or something like that) hitting me in the chest in challenge/hardcore mode...Are you sure youre not using a super looters mod or something ?

Was my setup at the time it happened....
Ah never mind me.. i see the point now. Was the principle of it i guess...Mb. Still im not having problem against em without armor even standing still so idk you must be very unlucky on the bf getting hit like that ^^
 
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Anushtegin

Regular
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0
stones do blunt damage meanign they ignore armor but they also guarantee can't kill you. also, there's a thign called shields. i don't see an issue with this, they are easy enough. if you want to intentionally cripple yourself by not brigning a shield, then it's your own risk.
 

Adryl

Recruit
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0
Nah I agree with OP on this for sure, when I first started the game I remember feeling like "What's with all the heat-seeking rocks?" It wasn't a fun way to start. It's not bad if I can acquire armor to protect against it, but the armor doesn't work well enough. Thrown weapons in general seem weirdly powerful so i'm hoping they get re-balanced.
 

Dr-Shinobi

Squire
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0
Nah I agree with OP on this for sure, when I first started the game I remember feeling like "What's with all the heat-seeking rocks?" It wasn't a fun way to start. It's not bad if I can acquire armor to protect against it, but the armor doesn't work well enough. Thrown weapons in general seem weirdly powerful so i'm hoping they get re-balanced.

Not sure what heatseaking your talking about...But yeah AIs throwing and bows can be a bit exceptional at times i can admit that but so can mine when i get lucky. And if you count in many throwing at the same time some will most def hit sooner or later

AI "throwing skills" is better shown here though...and in my opinion it looks very naturally
 
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AnandaShanti

Knight at Arms
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0
So! I just got hit by a rock by a looter, naked to add without armor (since im playing as an barbarian)...well got boots.... And he did only 15 in damage (which is equivalent to 15% or something like that) hitting me in the chest in challenge/hardcore mode...Are you sure youre not using a super looters mod or something ?

Was my setup at the time it happened....
Ah never mind me.. i see the point now. Was the principle of it i guess...Mb. Still im not having problem against em without armor even standing still so idk you must be very unlucky on the bf getting hit like that ^^
Chip damage means very little damage like 5HP a hit. But over the course of killing 60 guys the 10 or less peasants with stones in the garrison managed to knock off 40% HP. As I also said in the OP I have THE MOST ARMOR. The implication that a peasant throwing a rock could somehow do 70+ damage to even slightly over power the Imperial scale body armor is absurd and badly designed.

stones do blunt damage meanign they ignore armor but they also guarantee can't kill you. also, there's a thign called shields. i don't see an issue with this, they are easy enough. if you want to intentionally cripple yourself by not brigning a shield, then it's your own risk.
You don't read the post? That low blunt damage shouldn't get past that much armor.
Did you know there's a thing call bows and arrows? You can't use them and a shield at the same time.
That makes the shield useless and irrelevant.
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
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14
Really guys? What else have looters got going for them? They lack any armour, are forced to charge against overwhelming odds and are pitifully armed. Are you really saying you need them to be weaker? If you want to rationalise it, tell yourself they're armed with slings. :smile:
 

Dr-Shinobi

Squire
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0
Chip damage means very little damage like 5HP a hit. But over the course of killing 60 guys the 10 or less peasants with stones in the garrison managed to knock off 40% HP. As I also said in the OP I have THE MOST ARMOR. The implication that a peasant throwing a rock could somehow do 70+ damage to even slightly over power the Imperial scale body armor is absurd and badly designed.
Yeah and i understood that statement to :smile:
 

Dr-Shinobi

Squire
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0
Really guys? What else have looters got going for them? They lack any armour, are forced to charge against overwhelming odds and are pitifully armed. Are you really saying you need them to be weaker? If you want to rationalise it, tell yourself they're armed with slings. :smile:
Agree its a game and they should have an small chance if any in my opinion. I root for the poor bastards
 

Dr-Shinobi

Squire
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0
Know its a "stupid follow up question" but are you sure that you´re not might be using an mod that re calibrates damage output depending on types...like blunt better against armor but cut lowered and such ?....as you might not or forget taking account to that. Ps Keep in mind... im not so judgmental as others here about mods twisting the outcome of the core.. as i see it if it is´nt programmed for it that is even if i understand that it can hurt the code chain in some other instances.

Or its me just not seing the whole picture that they should do lesser damage against such heavy armor ? Like 0.2 or something like that ? ^^
 
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roadworker

Recruit
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0
if you are on a horse, ride sideways when they are about to throw, and move in towards them when they are readying another throw. being on a horse is extremely dangerous against ranged, when you speed up to charge them you make ranged attack hit you really hard, so you need to put that speed away from them. you will notice if you ride away from looters throwing stones at you, even if you are naked like shinobis barbarian, they barely damage you 5 points, and should not damage you at all with armor on. this is why training yourself to have a good maneuver on a horse is important to stay alive on one. the damage from speed is also why ai never makes their cavalry charge until infantry is close enough to distract most targets. if you make cavalry charge in without infantry, they get shot down quick

big pro tip: do not ride pack horses! they cannot maneuver at all. it will get you killed fast against looters. you ride one when you start a new game, take that horse off, its bad. only good for carrying loot. buy a 10 lvl riding horse that cost between 150-300 and you are good to go

on the other hand if you are on foot, you have the best mobility, so you can 'dodge' the stones by moving sideways as they throw, and make them block each others view by circling around their position. it becomes easier as you level your athletics. but expect things to be a little difficult in the beginning when your character is untrained
 
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Anushtegin

Regular
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0
You don't read the post? That low blunt damage shouldn't get past that much armor.
Did you know there's a thing call bows and arrows? You can't use them and a shield at the same time.
That makes the shield useless and irrelevant.
i think you and most everyoen else here missed what i said in my first post, so let me say it again:

in the mount & blade games, blunt weapons ignore armor. meanign whether you are naked or have the thickest armor, stones will always make the same amount of damage. that's why i always have a high tier mace with me, so i can 1 or 2 tap every enemy in the game, from lowly looters to the thickest lords.

also, bows outrange thrown projectiles. if you get hit by looters, you are too close...
 

AnandaShanti

Knight at Arms
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0
are you sure that you´re not might be using an mod that re calibrates damage output depending on types
No mods.

in the mount & blade games, blunt weapons ignore armor
They should not ignore that much armor with such low base damage on the weapon. This is part of overall damage calculations needing a lot of work but it stands out as absurd.

All you guys posting about how you can kill looters : Yay good for you, it has nothing to do with my suggestion and complaint! I can kill any army on the Map, it doesn't change the fact that Heavy armor should block more damage!
 

Anushtegin

Regular
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0
as i said, they ignore armor completely. once plate armor became commonplace, the personal arms of men-.at-arms and their enemies shifted to maces and warhammers. and rocks are obviously blunt weapons. i also see no reason to to change either damage or the ranged weapon of looters. it is good as it is. and again, they guarantee can't kill you with rocks either. this is how the blunt weapon damage modifier works since the original mount & blade.
 

roadworker

Recruit
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0
No mods.


They should not ignore that much armor with such low base damage on the weapon. This is part of overall damage calculations needing a lot of work but it stands out as absurd.

All you guys posting about how you can kill looters : Yay good for you, it has nothing to do with my suggestion and complaint! I can kill any army on the Map, it doesn't change the fact that Heavy armor should block more damage!
honestly i personally didnt even know blunts ignored all armor, i thought just some of it. but if i recall correctly from warband, then blunts had a pretty mediocre damage, like the one handed maces damaged 20-25 while swords easily reached 30-35 damage of same tier, and the two handed could reach up to 50 somthing and still swing pretty fast at the cost of protection. any blunt with more damage, especially two handed, were incredibly slow and unwieldy. im assuming they are trying to design it the same way. i would not want stones to lose any meaning once the player gets some sort of protection, then looters are too easy yet they matter through the whole game for restocking your army. stones have a terrible accuracy in the hands of the looters and can be dodged until they have no more left, so if you do get hit that should punish you. you can fire an arrow and then dodge the stones if you time it correctly

in any case, dont you have infantry to cover for you while you shoot? if you are trying to solo looters then the increased difficulty is your choice