Removal of throwing axes from heavy infantry

[arockstar2]

In patch 1.5.5, throwing axes are being removed as a perk for heavy shield infantry. Speaking from a Captain’s mode perspective, logically this makes no sense. Shields easily lose to 2 handers; having the option of bringing throwing axes to soften up the enemy made shield units viable in melee.

Perhaps this was an effort to put more emphasis on skirmish units, which still doesn’t make much sense to me. Skirmishers can carry 6-7 javelins (compared to only 3 throwing axes) which also travel a lot farther.

 

[Surreal120]

YET AGAIN another perfect example of why the modes should be balanced differently. In Skirmish throwables need to be removed wherever possible. Why aren't the game modes balanced separately already????

 

[arockstar2]

YET AGAIN another perfect example of why the modes should be balanced differently. In Skirmish throwables need to be removed wherever possible. Why aren't the game modes balanced separately already????

I completely agree, that’s something they probably should have been doing from the start, though it’s still not too late. There’s another thread going on about archers having access to 2 handed weapons (an issue in skirmish mode) that really is fine in captains.

 

[Mabons]

YET AGAIN another perfect example of why the modes should be balanced differently. In Skirmish throwables need to be removed wherever possible. Why aren't the game modes balanced separately already????

Or just have the class system for captain and give us a fully customizable experience for our own character

 

[soul_jak]

Could U imagine if they balanced each game mode separately

 

[Namakan]

Could U imagine if they balanced each game mode separately

ftfy

 

[WarMir]

In patch 1.5.5, throwing axes are being removed as a perk for heavy shield infantry. Speaking from a Captain’s mode perspective, logically this makes no sense. Shields easily lose to 2 handers; having the option of bringing throwing axes to soften up the enemy made shield units viable in melee.

Perhaps this was an effort to put more emphasis on skirmish units, which still doesn’t make much sense to me. Skirmishers can carry 6-7 javelins (compared to only 3 throwing axes) which also travel a lot farther.

About Captain Mode:
Well i am not a fan of throwables because i prefer to have a spear on my infantry but this is stupid. Having throwables give you some hope to scare charging Menavalions if you are well positioned...

I don`t know who give them all this stupid ideas but i have feeling like it would be better to get the Captain Mode to the state it was a year ago, in CB...

And make finally a separate Category for Captain and Skirmish, people are talking about it for a long time.

edit1
Oops now i see that the idea come from Skirmish, so its again case of Captain and Skirmish mode having the same perks...

 

[Moton]

The more skirmish players ask for the worse captain mode gets. Captain was great in beta and launch and have more or less only become worse over time. With the archers rework next patch I atleast hope we can remedy the 2 hander class spam rush that have plauged every. Single. Match for a couple of months.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

But why would the skirmish players even want that change? The Heavy Inf will have no answer against riders who dont charge into spears and no answer to archers that run away.

Only necessary if heavy inf was op but the only reason we see it played is a stupid class limit...

 

[Namakan]

The Heavy Inf will have no answer against riders who dont charge into spears and no answer to archers that run away.

oh no you cant attack the highly mobile class when youre playing the non-ranged class and the mobile class doesnt come straight at you? how HORRIBLE.

I do agree that archers should not be able to endlessly kite infantry though. That's something that should be brought about with stat changes to either infantry, archers or perhaps even both, NOT by giving nearly every single INFANTRY class in the game ranged options.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

oh no you cant attack the highly mobile class when youre playing the non-ranged class and the mobile class doesnt come straight at you? how HORRIBLE.

I do agree that archers should not be able to endlessly kite infantry though. That's something that should be brought about with stat changes to either infantry, archers or perhaps even both, NOT by giving nearly every single INFANTRY class in the game ranged options.

I truly believe that the most healthy state of the game is where everything has counterplay to a certain extend.
Things like:
Cav should have counterplay to archers that only block (bumpslash)
Archers&Inf should have counterplay to cav that facehugs (noticeable swing damage to the horse with 1h weapons)
That way it would be a skill matchup. Right now its just facehugging and nothing happens.

Its also a good thing that spears have a counter: Slow moving cav and avoiding. That way it is a skill matchup between the spear guy and the rider who stabs at the correct timing.
However this playstile should also have a counter: Throwing. And throwing has a counter: Maneuver. With the new accelerate and brake function on the horses the cavalry player has alot of utility to dodge or significantly reduce the speed bonus. The top tier cav players do a great job on that one I think.

 

[Namakan]

It's not about not being able to dodge it, it's about the game basically being Counter Strike: Calradia Offensive with all but TWO infantry classes having access to some sort of throwing.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

It's not about not being able to dodge it, it's about the game basically being Counter Strike: Calradia Offensive with all but TWO infantry classes having access to some sort of throwing.

Ok I will repeat so that you can understand it. It's about the game basically being Minecraft: Hitting a horse with an 1h sword feels like mining obsidian with a stone shovel.

 

[Namakan]

Ok I will repeat so that you can understand it. It's about the game basically being Minecraft: Hitting a horse with an 1h sword feels like mining obsidian with a stone shovel.

Ok, so then let me make my point clear as well: I don't mind them swapping out your stone shovel for a diamond pickaxe for that scenario, but you don't get to have creative mode.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Ok, so then let me make my point clear as well: I don't mind them swapping out your stone shovel for a diamond pickaxe for that scenario, but you don't get to have creative mode.

You just agreed to an inf buff! Alright I would propose that the seargant sword should do 35dmg to a heavy horse with normal speed bonus swings.
I feel like we understand each other way better when using Minecraft metaphors btw!

 

[sniparsexe]

YET AGAIN another perfect example of why the modes should be balanced differently

yet another perfect example of why the modes should be balanced differently why the class system is bad

 

[Namakan]

You just agreed to an inf buff! Alright I would propose that the seargant sword should do 35dmg to a heavy horse with normal speed bonus swings.

Fine by me. Maybe make it so its 40 when you hit the unarmored parts and 30 when you hit the armored ones.*

I've said it a couple of times, but I don't mind inf having tools, I just don't want them to be bull****.

*talking without knowing exact HP values of horses or their armor values. hitting heavy horses for 30-40 damage isn't an issue for me, so long as that doesn't translate to 80+ hits on light ones - 50, maybe 60 would probably be fine for those, though that is once again talking without having the exact HP values in mind and ignoring speedbonus.

 

[TheBard]

Only necessary if heavy inf was op but the only reason we see it played is a stupid class limit...

Which was an answer to a setting in which infantry had no place (pre 1.5) if you didn't play sturgia or empire (bc Pila). If possible, you would still loot the opponents ranged weapons. Yeah, great.
Regarding the kiting problem: we will see if it works.

Edit: Before ppl come to me about pre 1.5, I quickly give explanations. I'm not counting kickthrowing meme-lords of Aserai infantry, if 99% of the combat is ranged combat. I had team leaders come to me and tell me most optimal strat for Battania is 4 Fianns and 2 Cav (which would probably work good if you consider the damage potential of it), Khuzait is a no brainer. Vlandia Sharpshooters and Light Crossbows are stupid regarding their power, even against Cav and even if you'd spawn as inf first life, i've seen many ppl going ranger second spawn and Knight => Light Crossbow or the other way around was often a thing with 300 gold.

Edit 2: I hoped that 1.5.5./next patch would make the class restriction obsolete. I do still hope. Maybe it works.

 

[hoonii]

However this playstile should also have a counter: Throwing. And throwing has a counter: Maneuver. With the new accelerate and brake function on the horses the cavalry player has alot of utility to dodge or significantly reduce the speed bonus. The top tier cav players do a great job on that one I think.

yep no sir don't want stupid op throwing axes dealing 9999 damage with 10m/s relative speed both to me and my heavily armored horse while standing still with that broken ass accuracy that lands 4 of 5 shots right in middle of the crosshair when the guy literally panic clicks his left mouse while doing a 180 and jumping and me getting hit in abdomen although im protecting THAT part of my body with my bloody shield that acts as if it's not there %80 of the time, throwables were broken and still are a bit and it's still the same in beta. heavy infantry can get the ****ty javelins its ok but then it removes the "specialty" of the "skirmisher" class.

 

[Mabons]

As many have pointed out, what’s the point in a skirmisher class if I can take the same thing with better armour weapons and at a slightly higher gold cost?

The biggest meme is giving archers throwing weapons.