Ranged weapons in realistic mode

[Crowquills]

Been playing for a while and it seems that ranged weapons, even rocks, are just way more OP than anything else in the game, including cavalry charges. There is a complete lack of glancing blows when using any form of ranged weapons. No matter the armor worn, if im charging on a horse and use a thrown weapon, it is a guaranteed kill no matter where I hit my target, even on a pinky finger or toe because of the added horse speed bonus and the added effect of the target running towards me. I have never seen a glancing blow skin off armor with ranged weapons. Are they not supposed to? Especially when in full plate?

Looking for more feedback.

 

[pada]

glancing blows may solve the current archery problem if devs can implement it. not sure what else could fix it aside from drastically cutting the aiming accuracy - i find even with 10 archery hitting stuff is no problem, a far cray from warband. there needs to be a big band between 10 archery and 300 archery, right now you dont really need any skill points in it. id like to see a nice big miss circle for low level archers.

multiplayer may have caused this?

 

[Mabons]

multiplayer may have caused this?

Don't blame us, we want it nerfed too.

 

[VincentNZ]

It is not dead accurate for the player. In the range of 0-75 you are only accurate at 40m at around 50% of the time. However the accuracy of NPCs especially when moving and against moving infantry is quite high. Add to this that all NPCs also can use higher tier arrows and there is not a whole lot that will save you from the damage dealt to you.
This is the main reason that hideouts are so awfully unnerving to do. I have no idea how to change this though. Maybe with perks that can increase the player's health to 130-140 compared to standard NPCs you could tank arrows some more. You could also deacrease their accuracy, which would still be good enough in bigger battles, yet not so good in smaller skirmishes. Arrow count is something to look at as well. However that does come with huge issues regarding factions and balance.

 

[Crowquills]

Certain armor tied to glancing blows is what would fix the issue IMO. No matter the skill, if the arrow is shot by a pro or a noob, it should still be able to glance off armor if the armor and angle is right.

 

[imgran]

Certain armor tied to glancing blows is what would fix the issue IMO. No matter the skill, if the arrow is shot by a pro or a noob, it should still be able to glance off armor if the armor and angle is right.

that's certainly how it worked in Warband, least based on my experience.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

If they nerf archery in anyway I hope they increase the effect of the skill/perks for the player characters to compensate or just nerf troop untits, because on the player end, the archery is absolutely not OP and much weaker (and slow to improve) compared to warband. If anything, player archery is useful because AI ranged is so deadly that horse arching is much safer then closing in.

 

[imgran]

I think part of the problem is that mid tier archers have too much Skill, which means they have laser sniper sights on their bows. They should tone dow the skill level of archers across the board IMHO.

 

[MrGrendel]

Missile damage just needs to drop very sharply after close range. Armor in general could use a buff. I know some games have a player-base that is allergic to fights that last more than 2 seconds, but I think we have some more mature players on this ride.

 

[Revenant342]

Armor in general seems much less effective than in Warband, and I think it's a big problem especially with ranged combat being as it is. Also think that damage should scale more widely with bow and arrow quality, as it is the top-tiers only about 30-40% stronger than the basic hunting bow. As a result, the same upkeep value of the most basic archer unit will slaughter an equivalent upkeep value of top-tier archers, for example.

 

[durbal]

Missile damage just needs to drop very sharply after close range. Armor in general could use a buff. I know some games have a player-base that is allergic to fights that last more than 2 seconds, but I think we have some more mature players on this ride.

I don't like the idea of archery damage decreasing too drastically since it's a) not really realistic and b) would make archery rather useless.

However, right now the archer's skill matters too little compared to the bow and that's an issue. The basic steppe bow has some decently bad accuracy, but as soon as you upgrade to even a Nordic bow all of a sudden even 30 bow skill allows constant headshots at 100m.

Low tier archers need to use low-tier bows (not sure what they use now) and bow skill needs to matter a lot more than it does. Basically, shift accuracy away from bows as an item and more toward bow skill and then you can shift bows as an item to do more damage, fire faster, or have other properties. This would make unskilled bow users still effective vs massed, unprotected infantry (such as levies often were in reality) but not allow them to snipe you off horseback from 100m away.

 

[Crowquills]

I don't like the idea of archery damage decreasing too drastically since it's a) not really realistic and b) would make archery rather useless.

However, right now the archer's skill matters too little compared to the bow and that's an issue. The basic steppe bow has some decently bad accuracy, but as soon as you upgrade to even a Nordic bow all of a sudden even 30 bow skill allows constant headshots at 100m.

Low tier archers need to use low-tier bows (not sure what they use now) and bow skill needs to matter a lot more than it does. Basically, shift accuracy away from bows as an item and more toward bow skill and then you can shift bows as an item to do more damage, fire faster, or have other properties. This would make unskilled bow users still effective vs massed, unprotected infantry (such as levies often were in reality) but not allow them to snipe you off horseback from 100m away.

Notice in the video the amount of strength and time it takes to pull a full force arrow and what it does to the armor. You want realism? This is it.
Keep in mind this is a 160lbs WARBOW.

 

[Malorn]

Armor in general seems much less effective than in Warband, and I think it's a big problem especially with ranged combat being as it is. Also think that damage should scale more widely with bow and arrow quality, as it is the top-tiers only about 30-40% stronger than the basic hunting bow. As a result, the same upkeep value of the most basic archer unit will slaughter an equivalent upkeep value of top-tier archers, for example.

I really think it's the armor, in general. Everything dies very quickly in bannerlord, enemy or ally alike. That can be fun at the right times, but it's a serious issue when you hit armored troops that are not supposed to melt under attacks.

 

[VincentNZ]

Notice in the video the amount of strength and time it takes to pull a full force arrow and what it does to the armor. You want realism? This is it.
Keep in mind this is a 160lbs WARBOW.

What we strive for is authenticity really and also a fun gameplay experience. When you have 24 arrows at your disposal, a spread of 3° and manage to shoot a guy 40m away for 20 damage, this is simply not fun.
As said, the issue is not the player, but the NPCs and especially their gear. Each Khergit Horse Archer and Bandit Raider use Recurve Bows with 120ish skill, meaning they are really accurate, especially on foot, while also having tier 4 arrows and likely 30 at their disposal.
Meanwhile you have a lot of core troops that have little armour, no shield and only limited range options. When fighting larger battles the amount of troops with sufficient armour and shields increase, diminishing the effect of even accurate archers.
However just tweaking each of these individual stats can have dire consequences for certain factions that rely on their ranged damage output, like Khuzait and Battanians, I assume.
Also a thing to note is that you will only really have massive issues with this, when you play alone or with a small band of guys. You will really feel the heat there, specifically in hideouts. So I think tweaks should happen there first, by allowing you to choose your party, decrease the number of opponents and place them so that you never have to face off against 9 archers with your 9 melee dudes without shields.

 

[VincentNZ]

I really think it's the armor, in general. Everything dies very quickly in bannerlord, enemy or ally alike. That can be fun at the right times, but it's a serious issue when you hit armored troops that are not supposed to melt under attacks.

The standard bow and arrow has low accuracy and lowish damage. You will need three hits to down a Tier 1-2 dude. Two hits if you manage a neck or head shot. Tier 3 can go up to 4 hits. That can be a sixth of your total arrow count, if we do not include misses. This is still the case when you are at 100+ archery. Spread can be up to 3° (rough estimate by me) then as well.
Now a high tier bow and arrow, which is what high tier troops always use, will give you +4 pierce damage with similar arrow count and pretty good accuracy.
So the heat we are facing does not come from the archers being to good, but the gear is, while the skill itself has too little effect on damage or accuracy.

 

[lcmiracle]

Someone somewhere on this forum posted a while a ago that all character HP should be reduced and the effect of armor increased. The idea is that low level mooks like looters and whatnot typcially wear next to nothing, but still it takes multiple arrows just to kill one because the damage is too low. By reducing the hit point of every NPC, it makes it easier to kill mooks. But increasing the effect of armor means the amount of damage dealt is greatly reduce by it, and high level troops can survive much more easily, as one would expect.

 

[VincentNZ]

Someone somewhere on this forum posted a while a ago that all character HP should be reduced and the effect of armor increased. The idea is that low level mooks like looters and whatnot typcially wear next to nothing, but still it takes multiple arrows just to kill one because the damage is too low. By reducing the hit point of every NPC, it makes it easier to kill mooks. But increasing the effect of armor means the amount of damage dealt is greatly reduce by it, and high level troops can survive much more easily, as one would expect.

Well that would limit a lot of players' that like to play the trader life with lowish armour, or that can not afford armour in the first couple of hours. It would indeed reduce the damage taken by archers, but not solve the core problem, while introducing new issues, like what purpose high level archers then have in battles where shields and good armour are more present, while the archers remain vulnerable.

 

[Danny D]

I think the problem is armor values in Bannerlord stayed the same as in Warband while the weapon damage values have doubled or even tripled in some cases! I guess HP has been doubled as well though...

Ranged is very OP in Bannerlord. I run my army purely with Vlandian crossbowmen and SHRED enemy armies. I just retreat and attack again if the infantry survived long enough to get close somehow. Then again I did the same in Warband for the most part.

In short, accuracy may be the problem but more likely its damage values combined with armor values.

Then again, there is no power draw or power strike in Bannerlord which may also be why certain weapons, no matter who they are wielded by pack a big hit. Which may be why players are getting wrecked by bandits, me included.

 

[lcmiracle]

Well that would limit a lot of players' that like to play the trader life with lowish armour, or that can not afford armour in the first couple of hours. It would indeed reduce the damage taken by archers, but not solve the core problem, while introducing new issues, like what purpose high level archers then have in battles where shields and good armour are more present, while the archers remain vulnerable.

That's assuming all your enemies field nothing but high level troops. Given the level up speed of the game, although it felt to me that leveling up had been a lot easier, even properly balanced, about 3/4 of an army would be rank 1-3 units. They would fall easily to archers.
As for the merchant play style, my playstyle is the merchant style, and I spend most of my first month or two trying to figure out how to make money. I would not engage anyone until I had decent armor. Not to mention my starting jerkin had 7 or 8 point higher armor then the looter's tunic or whatever already. Increasing the effect of armor, preferably by a logarithmic function, would be the way to go

 

[TomaSkTemplar]

archery skill/proficiency gives missile speed or damage, considering that arrows cant be deflected, including blunted visibly penetrate target head, it is funny really.

armor is the thing that reduces effective range of a missile. Then you have impact angles and things like body not absorbing the whole hit, same with melee weapons. Depending on angle, there might be varying percentages of energy transfer.

Anyway, starting skill caps should be at 30, not 10. This kills progression way too fast.

T6 troops have 280-220 weapon proficiencies, giving them significant damage boosts as well as speed. How is a player going to reach this ?

10 + 80 from vigor attribute points, plus 5 focus = 150. Youre capped at 240, hard cap is surely very near that. That means with current 10 starting skill cap (lol) it is next to impossible to do anything.

2 starting attribute points are actual 0. 10 skill cap at start is what makes you worse than anything. And youre supposedly 30 years old, so I wonder where did 20 years of practicing something go. The character spend his whole time near a computer