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Persistent World 4.5.1 - download and general discussion

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Isidore

Regular
M&BWB
I'm really confused, I'll download the full version 7 and when I extract it to my Modules directory I can't load it up because it has no module.ini 
 

Melvarius

Veteran
WBWF&SNW
Healers are pretty good at the whole horse thing. Also, doesn't the crafting reward increase when stockpiles are low, when they were initially high? Also, is the max crafting reward reached from an empty stock that's on default?

EDIT:

Also, craftsmen have the same labouring as peasants, who in my opinion don't really need any help with chopping wood. And why do craftsmen need to repair things? Shouldn't that be left to engineers in factions?
 

Splintert

Count
M&BWB
Crafting reward is a diminishing returns type of function based on the current stock versus the design stock count. At 34/35 you'll have a small reward, and 0/35 you'll have a large reward.
 

Von Blucher

Squire
Map designers should put convenient flax stations next to clothes.

That way crafters can make the linen to make the clothes themselves rather than have to buy it = better profits.

As a class I think they need more help from the maps.
 

Splintert

Count
M&BWB
There are no flax stockpiles, but this is quite easily overcome by placing a spinning wheel near a linen spool of thread stockpile.
 

Melvarius

Veteran
WBWF&SNW
Are spinning and weaving engineer skills, or labouring skills?

EDIT:
Yeah I'm pretty sure it needs labouring, like the grinders.
 

Vornne

Count
M&BWBNWVC
Splintert said:
Is it just me or did a few trees get swapped with dead looking variants?
No; the most recent change to trees was in beta5, slightly shrinking the UV maps of some native types to fix the thin line glitches at the mesh face edges. No trees meshes have ever been swapped with entirely different ones, to the best of my knowledge; maybe you should download the full latest version again to isolate patching errors? If it still exists, specify the scene prop names.
Aldric said:
The craftman class is unattractive for different reasons.
I still don't agree with that common opinion based on my testing and evaluation; on a well designed scene (not one that has flax and clothing crafting dumped in as a minor afterthought) it seems possible to make comparable amounts of money for the time spent as things like iron mining, provided that is not made ridiculously trivial. I started writing a detailed testing report based on playing on a public server, but had to restart my computer and forgot to save it, and just don't really have the spare time at the moment. Remember that craftsmen can gather their own resources (slowly) and craft most horses by themselves, which often have high possible crafting rewards. I have increased the component of the variable crafting reward based on the skill required from 100 to 300, which will increase the possible reward proportionally more for lower value items.
Aldric said:
The ressource cost for linen and leather need to be review, we can't like wood and iron reduce their price since it's will render their harvest unprofitable.
Increasing the linen and leather prices is the wrong solution, as it would make the raw resources much more valuable than the end product. I have already decreased the time required and increased the processing outputs, but linen production could be increased once more, with 1 flax bundle -> 2 linen thread -> 2 linen cloth, so the gatherer can make more money from each flax bush and bundle moved. In almost all player designed scenes I have examined, far too many iron mines were placed with huge hit point values, but far too few flax plants were dotted around singly, sometimes long distances from a spinning wheel and so on (wrong). You are not supposed to place a single plant, but multiple in a field, so multiple peasants can gather it at the same time.
Aldric said:
By the way, i'm not sure but i notice that now not all weapon drop when someone is killed ? can you confirm ?
Nothing has been changed in that code for a long time: all weapons should still be dropped.
BlitzKrieg-BoB said:
If you want to do a complete overhaul I would say craftsman should be doing all cloth + leather armors and master smith all items (armor and weapons) with iron as the main material.
Then the engineer could be the only class able to build ladders and do repair works around the castle and maybe some woodwork like making poles and planks since theres a stockpile for those now.
Hmm, I don't really want to do a complete overhaul. Building and repairing just requires engineering skill greater than 0 (higher levels do it faster), and the engineer troop name is just that, not a distinctive job title (as with "mercenary").
Aldric said:
also, linen and leatherwork weak reward is one of they key to understand why no-one want to go craftman who is skills with those. Let them have a good reward, or the iron monopoly will stay.
I still think the main keys are unintentional bad scene design, and intentional sabotage of the mod design, to make money grinding as easy as possible at the expense of everything else.
Melvarius said:
Also Vornne, would you consider changing the engineer requirement for the mining pick to 3?
That would prevent craftsmen from making them: though, it seems reasonable now that the small mining picks can be crafted (which would remain at 2 engineer skill required).
Melvarius said:
Also, doesn't the crafting reward increase when stockpiles are low, when they were initially high?
Correct.
Melvarius said:
Also, is the max crafting reward reached from an empty stock that's on default?
No: if the stockpile is set the default 0 target, there will never be any crafting reward (since the current count can never be lower than the target); it is a way to disable crafting rewards for items. A target stock count of 1 (recommended for top tier speciality items) means that the full reward will be given as long as each item is bought before crafting another, to encourage making to order rather than using it for grinding money.
Melvarius said:
Also, craftsmen have the same labouring as peasants, who in my opinion don't really need any help with chopping wood.
No, peasants have 2 labouring, serfs 5, and all other labouring troops including craftsmen 1.
Melvarius said:
And why do craftsmen need to repair things? Shouldn't that be left to engineers in factions?
As explained before, repairing is a general skill, not a specific attribute of engineers - which seem attractive enough as is, without giving them more exclusive abilities.
Melvarius said:
Are spinning and weaving engineer skills, or labouring skills?
Spinning into thread requires labouring skill, weaving into cloth requires tailoring.
 

Splintert

Count
M&BWB
Vornne said:
No; the most recent change to trees was in beta5, slightly shrinking the UV maps of some native types to fix the thin line glitches at the mesh face edges. No trees meshes have ever been swapped with entirely different ones, to the best of my knowledge; maybe you should download the full latest version again to isolate patching errors? If it still exists, specify the scene prop names.

After restarting the game the correct models loaded, and have been loading properly ever since. I don't know what the issue was but it was never replicated.
 

Melvarius

Veteran
WBWF&SNW
Vornne said:
Melvarius said:
Also Vornne, would you consider changing the engineer requirement for the mining pick to 3?
That would prevent craftsmen from making them: though, it seems reasonable now that the small mining picks can be crafted (which would remain at 2 engineer skill required).

I think that the larger pickaxe would be nice for representing a professionally made tool.

 

Aldric

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Melvarius said:
Vornne said:
Melvarius said:
Also Vornne, would you consider changing the engineer requirement for the mining pick to 3?
That would prevent craftsmen from making them: though, it seems reasonable now that the small mining picks can be crafted (which would remain at 2 engineer skill required).

I think that the larger pickaxe would be nice for representing a professionally made tool.

No don't, it's requiered for low level craftman to get basic economy set up without the help of an enginneer. I strongly oppose the crafting level of all tools above 2
 

Von Blucher

Squire
Not sure I understand the animal changes in beta 6.

I bought 2 of each animal in aminal pen.

Both boars died after a short which but the others grew up ok.

Does 'die if cant move enough thing' only affect boars then?

What and how do you 'manually feed' animals?
 

Armie_knock

Master Knight
WB
Just a question.

As I understand it, this mod was first made by Laszlo, and then Vornne took over. I tried to check Laszlo's post to find this, but failed. So when did Vornne take over this mod (version,year)? Or where He/You here all the time?

/Confused Armie.
 

Vornne

Count
M&BWBNWVC
Von Blucher said:
Both boars died after a short which but the others grew up ok.
Baby animals (like boarlets) starve much quicker than adult animals that produce more meat when killed, like cows.
Aldric said:
How much field does animals need to not die on their own ?
Test to find out: from memory, I think the herd leader needs to move at least about 10 meters at ground level for the herd not to starve (I'm at work and can't check).
Armie_knock said:
As I understand it, this mod was first made by Laszlo, and then Vornne took over. I tried to check Laszlo's post to find this, but failed. So when did Vornne take over this mod (version,year)? Or where He/You here all the time?
Laszlo started it alone, though I answered a few coding questions before first release, then about a week after the first version I got the full code to implement some features, helping behind the scenes with scripting for version 2 and 3, but Laszlo did all the public announcements and releases apart from 3.2 (while he was away); I decided after version 2 that the current module system base was unworkable for the features we wanted to implement, so started work on a total module system rewrite from scratch, which eventually got named version 4 (it actually started development in parallel with version 3 and before _WAR). Laszlo had some changes in life which meant he didn't have the same time available or inclination for modding (second hand information, you would have to ask him for exact details).
 

Armie_knock

Master Knight
WB
Thanks for clearing that up ^°^ Now I do actually remember seeing an old thread where He asked something about modding, and You answered it.

/No longer confused Armie.
 

Von Blucher

Squire
Ok I did see 2 baby boar and 1 baby deer die. Some deer did live so i guess those were lucky and managed to find space in the pen.

They only seem to die as baby. When grown they seem fine and never die. None of my cows died and I bought quite a few who got stuck around the pen quite a lot.

Havnt managed to feed them. I had wheat and tried both leaving on the floor and hitting them with it. Hitting them did nothing.
 
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