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Persistent World 4.5.1 - download and general discussion

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Aldric

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Hmm, I guess they are often used as combat armor as opposed to civilian clothing; though I am not really focused on crafting changes now that the latest patch is released, as explained at the end of the beta6 announcement post. Maybe they could be craftable by engineers as well, but I don't understand why craftsmen are so unattractive that nobody would be able to craft them - the troop allows fairly profitable and safe resource gathering, processing, and crafting work for a low training cost.

The craftman class is unattractive for different reasons.

First, it's not even a low fighter on itself  it's technically a paesant crafter, he can't even defend or participate in any combat where as the engineer and master smith can.
Secondly, the crafting he can do on his low level are complex yet unrewarding, clothing, low level armour and leather work. It's not something that someone who know how to craft want to waste time to do, where more needed metal armour and weapon are asked by the faction.

In my opinin, you should let the engineer craft all light, medium and heavy armor, and the elite end armour could only be crafted by the mastersmith who can't do the light crafting.

The ressource cost for linen and leather need to be review, we can't like wood and iron reduce their price since it's will render their harvest unprofitable.

What i suggest is to increase the base crafting reward for clothing and light armour using linen and leather while increasing slightly the price of selling for linen and leather end product, so it may be more profitable to do so.


And by the way, excellent work Vornne, with all due honesty, i wasn't expect a fix within a week like this.

By the way, i'm not sure but i notice that now not all weapon drop when someone is killed ? can you confirm ?
 
Vornne said:
Hmm, I guess they are often used as combat armor as opposed to civilian clothing; though I am not really focused on crafting changes now that the latest patch is released, as explained at the end of the beta6 announcement post. Maybe they could be craftable by engineers as well, but I don't understand why craftsmen are so unattractive that nobody would be able to craft them - the troop allows fairly profitable and safe resource gathering, processing, and crafting work for a low training cost.

Craftsman are most often used to smelt gold bars because they are faster to train as. Sometimes they're used in commoner villages or spawn areas. But never in factions.
Mainly people just say it sucks because it's not as good as engineer or smith. Same goes for healer, which I personally really enjoy as they have decent skill in a LOT of different things.

Aldric said:
In my opinin, you should let the engineer craft all light, medium and heavy armor, and the elite end armour could only be crafted by the mastersmith who can't do the light crafting.

The ressource cost for linen and leather need to be review, we can't like wood and iron reduce their price since it's will render their harvest unprofitable.

What i suggest is to increase the base crafting reward for clothing and light armour using linen and leather while increasing slightly the price of selling for linen and leather end product, so it may be more profitable to do so.

If you want to do a complete overhaul I would say craftsman should be doing all cloth + leather armors and master smith all items (armor and weapons) with iron as the main material.
Then the engineer could be the only class able to build ladders and do repair works around the castle and maybe some woodwork like making poles and planks since theres a stockpile for those now.

I disagree with messing with the linen and leather products values.
Not only can that be done by any mapper at will already, it's also not necissary as the profit from cloth and leather items isn't that low. I think that a tailor would realistically earn less per item he creates then a smith.
Cloth items also have a low crafting reward because they usually get large starting stocks and are bought less often in most maps.

If you'd like to continue this discussion we should probably move to another forumboard though.


Anyways, I like the idea of engineers possibly getting the ability of making leather boots and gloves, because it's only a minor change and I think the way you have the three classes set up now is best left as it is with only a minor change if needed.
 

Aldric

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Don't make it too complicated, if you limit what people can do, it will be event harder to maintain big faction.

also, linen and leatherwork weak reward is one of they key to understand why no-one want to go craftman who is skills with those. Let them have a good reward, or the iron monopoly will stay.
 

Melvarius

Veteran
WBWF&SNW
Craftsmen are the best tailors, so they should be able to make all of the clothing and "low-tier" armor. The linen and leather-work reward is usually based off of the maps. Starting stockpiles for clothes should be high, so that craftsmen would be more inclined to replenish clothing stocks when it gets low (Which should be the only time you really need to).
 

NOVICIUS

Master Knight
Vornne said:
This update basically just contains fixes for the major problems in beta6, but it requires a new version release since some changes are incompatible with the last version:
4 beta7:
Only set agent modifiers on the server, to avoid client memory leaks.
Partially revert the system for knocking unskilled riders off horses, since it triggers game engine bugs.
Increase linen thread resulting from spinning flax bundles from 1 to 2.
Stockpiles for wooden poles, sticks, boards, and leather pieces.
Reduce smithy anvil use time.
Play a different sound for women drowning.
Fix incorrect mesh name for the iron mine with small ores.
Fix bishop crosier stockpile collision mesh.
Fix castle banners floating in the sky for some scenes, possibly fixing some other bugs related to positions.
Fix ship sails floating high in the sky at mission start, until first moved.
Requested castle names.

YEAY!!! thank  you  :grin:
 

clant

Squire
Will extracting the pw7 patch work for my pw5 files? I wasn't able to update it to 6 due to your amazingly fast coding magic :grin:
 

Aldric

Grandmaster Knight
WB
http://www.moddb.com/mods/persistent-world-mod/downloads/pw4-beta5-full-download here you can have beta7 full download

It will be up in a couple of days
 

clant

Squire
Lolz yeah he totally fell for the virus link now all his accountz belongs to me!!!!!

I am gay

(Can I get warned for impersonations XD)

 

Melvarius

Veteran
WBWF&SNW
Aldric said:
Make a try and be a craftman for an hour and then you compare to an engi.
You will see the matter

There is no problem here. If you make clothes for an hour while all the stocks are gone, you'll get your reward (assuming the map creator allowed you to). The default price for the craftsman is 800 denars, while the maximum crafting reward for clothing is the priestly robe for 930 (Only the craftsman can make it). The craftsman isn't limited to clothing and (very) light armor either. With an engineering skill of 2, he can create a wide variety of "simple" weapons, although the only swords he can make are practice, falchions, and cleavers, he can create a couple of axes and "eco-weapons" (cheap weapons that can stand a chance versus heavy armor). The thing about the craftsman is that he's one of the low-tier classes (Classes with labouring). In most maps, the craftsman is the choice for commoners who want to make as much money as they can. They can work for their own resources, and craft many items (Not to mention, they're the only ones who can make certain clothes).

Now if we compare the craftsman to the engineer, we can see that the engineer has no labouring or tailoring skills. That means he was intended for factions, and working with stockpiles, since he cannot get his own resources. The engineer does however, have higher overall stats (Combat-wise) and a higher engineering skill (5!). This further pushes my reasoning as most mapmakers put higher tier weapons into faction bases. Overall, the engineer is capable of creating better weapons (Higher cash rewards), building equipment (Arrow shields, and ladders - availability based on maps), and they also have some ship sailing utility (Sailing skill of 4). I'd like to note that, even serfs can create ladders.

Lastly, as Vornne asked earlier (Why people choose engineer more than craftsmen), It's usually commoners that choose craftsmen (Most clothes are in commoner towns - across most maps). Factions would usually order to have a mix of engineers and serfs, rather than even have a couple of craftsmen.

Also Vornne, would you consider changing the engineer requirement for the mining pick to 3?
 

Von Blucher

Squire
Great work on the new beta. Love it.

Fav bits are:

- New linen making far less painful
- new looting system
- best of all being able to carry weapons armour as any class
 

Loppen

Knight
Von Blucher said:
Great work on the new beta. Love it.

Fav bits are:

- New linen making far less painful
- new looting system
- best of all being able to carry weapons armour as any class

Agree. Well done.
 
Melvarius said:
Craftsmen are the best tailors, so they should be able to make all of the clothing and "low-tier" armor. The linen and leather-work reward is usually based off of the maps. Starting stockpiles for clothes should be high, so that craftsmen would be more inclined to replenish clothing stocks when it gets low (Which should be the only time you really need to).

If the stockpiles are high, then clothes (which usually sell slower then light armors would) will be stuck at a crafting reward between 30 - 100 gold.
At the same time engineers and smiths would be making tons of money from simple stuff like mail chausses of around 200 - 800 gold, making craftsman a less attractive choice.
Especially since as you stated; The best reward they can get from clothes is 930 gold from priestly robes. But the average reward is much lower.

As for the labouring; Ever tried to chop down a tree with a craftsman with full foodbar, thinking; "If I train craftsman I can chop the wood I need for repairs myself!"?
I can assure you; It will be rather dissapointing. So the 1 point in labour is fantastic for cooking your own salted meats, but not much else.
Perhaps if craftsman was also given 1 point in herding so it could make saddle/sumpter/cart horses. Then it would be a whole different story.
 
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