Native Is Dying?

[JackBaldy]

Spoiler

The US Native Warband community is dying and to me it is clear that the reason for this is that the game has such a ridiculously heavy learning curve, that new players get scared away. I almost did.

Bingo. There would have to be far more players and avatar development to streamline expert games from rookie games. For people like me that have real responsibilities in real life, I can't devote a thousand hours to mastering a silly game. Every few weeks I go online for a few games only to find all of the regulars are now that much better than they were 2 weeks ago, and I get further and further behind in skill. There are people that are on here every day it would seem. I can't compete with that, no matter hard I try. Despite how I'm told I should just be having the time of my life getting killed in 30 seconds and then watching a bunch of regulars play for 5 minutes and repeat; this is not fun. When I get a few precious hours to relax and play *I* would actually like to play. How popular would sports be if you had to start out playing against the best players in the world, and just sat on the bench 95% of the time never getting the chance to improve because you are not actually playing?

I understand what you're saying. Mount and Blade: Warband does have a high learning curve, but I think you got a few things mixed up. Play time does not magically equal player skill gained. We're not talking about cRPG where it does actually make you better through skills/attributes and equipment.

Plenty of people play games for long amounts of time, and in the end, they still... suck. I've experienced this in other games. Players that play non-stop, but guess what? They still suck. That's because play time will not automatically and absolutely increase your player skill level. Some people have it, some people don't.

Sure, play time does help a bit (Although not an absolute and it doesn't really hurt either), but lets not pretend that everyone that plays half decently has no life. You can tell yourself that |play time = SkiLLz| if you wish to sleep better at night, but I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that it's false.

 

[doomsayer]

Yeah, playing much doesn't equal skill, but regular training makes a big difference.
In any case this doesn't really matter, a newbie/bad player has no chance against a regular and the regular has no chance against a top player.
Now making the game easier is not really an option, because that's what keeps it interesting. But you could make newb-only server, where access is limited by the time you logged into the game or by your total k:d.
Like in soccer, where a sucky player like me can play with other sucky and slightly good players but no world champions just for fun.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Spam is easily blocked. I've played nothing but fastest since beta and I've never been abused by spammers. It's all about proper blocking.

Some decent kicking would at least keep them from hugging you like a hippie, yet still have all the qualities of easier blocking.

The thing is, proper blocking can get borked on fastest due to improper speed scaling. Not only that, but it enhances ping problems.  But this isn't an anti-fastest thread; we've already had enough of those.

I agree though, we needs kicks back somewhat. Give back some turning radius and maybe let the victim move a little bit once stunned to not guarantee kickslashes (not that they shouldn't happen).

Also, the lack of turning radii has gotten rid of one of my favorite techniques-the slash-kick. I used it to catch people off guard a whole bunch of times.

 

[DoomCraft]

Spam is easily blocked. I've played nothing but fastest since beta and I've never been abused by spammers. It's all about proper blocking.

Some decent kicking would at least keep them from hugging you like a hippie, yet still have all the qualities of easier blocking.

The thing is, proper blocking can get borked on fastest due to improper speed scaling. Not only that, but it enhances ping problems.  But this isn't an anti-fastest thread; we've already had enough of those.

I agree though, we needs kicks back somewhat. Give back some turning radius and maybe let the victim move a little bit once stunned to not guarantee kickslashes (not that they shouldn't happen).

Also, the lack of turning radii has gotten rid of one of my favorite techniques-the slash-kick. I used it to catch people off guard a whole bunch of times.

Well and that's just the thing too. 1.27 was probably the peak of the game. Everyone had their own little niches and while some things were overpowered, they could easily be overcome with good teamwork. At 1.30 kicking being COMPLETELY nerfed (And I know a lot of people say they still can do it. I challenge ANYONE to kick slash me in game and kill me. I'll have your foot off so fast you will uninstall) most people stopped playing around this point. I could go on forever about kicking.

The point is that the game worked at 1.27. I don't think anyone really complained about having any major balancing issues (Other than people who want to hug spin to win.)

And if you like fastest or medium combat speed, that's entirely up to you. I've seen plenty of people play with 90+ ping on our servers and carry themselves beyond average.

What really needs to be done? -

The developers need to make it possible for servers to change more than the silly options available. Who REALLY wants no archery all the time. An auto balance feature would be glorious. Have 2-3 archers per 10 people. Same with cav or whatever you want it to be. How hard can that be to add. Allow servers to change more than what the Devs think is balanced. Because everyone knows that the minute 10 people hate something, they jump all over the forums and cry about it to have it changed. The developers can't possibly make everyone happy. So, leave it in the hands of the server admins. (The ones trying to keep this community alive).

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

If you really think nerfing the kick so you have to aim it before you kic, not while you kick, single handedly blew up the engines to multiplayer native you must be one of those guys who kick before they do anything involoving attacking someone.


Even if they removed kick, how would it kill Native? It would kill the entire game because the kick would be the same in every other mod.

 

[JackBaldy]

Yeah, playing much doesn't equal skill, but regular training makes a big difference.

The same concepts that I spoke about in my previous post still apply, both to 'training regularly' or just plain ol' playing a lot. Just because someone trains a lot doesn't mean that they will get better or reach a higher tier of skill. It's not an absolute. I've known plenty of people who play games a lot and 'train regularly' as you put it, and they're still... bad. I've known clans that held regular scheduled training sessions, but guess what? They were still bad (The majority).

The lesson of the story? Play time, whether that be training or otherwise, does not directly equate to skill being gained. It might indirectly affect your skill gained, but it's not an absolute.

(And I know a lot of people say they still can do it. I challenge ANYONE to kick slash me in game and kill me. I'll have your foot off so fast you will uninstall)

Slightly off-topic, but I know for a fact that you've been kicked post kick nerf (Sometimes resulting in death or severe damage). Just sayin'. Although I'm not really going to comment on the state of kicking right now because that's just a bag of potatoes that I don't want to involve myself with again.

 

[Finished]

I played cRPG once. Just annoyed me that these guys who absolutely sucked were kicking my ass because my weapons weren't strong enough to register hits...

Some minutes (or hours, depending on your skill) you need to grow, but you level very fast, and with a few points in power strike you can pwn high levels (if they suck) with the wooden stick.

Back when I started playing MnB (the original), my favourite thing about it was the whole "A guy with a quarterstaff can take down a knight in 3 hits if they knight sucks" idea.

What is not very realistic..............

The idea that you actually had to be good to do well, and that as long as you were a good player, you could do well with bad gear. Albeit you'll do better with better gear, but still.
Because of that, I don't like cRPG.

What? Good players with cheap gear pwn high levels all the time in crpg. You need power strike 6, the xp you get in one evening, and then you can kill everyone.

As for the whole "round is decided by which players on which side" thing, that pretty much happens in native as well. If a few good players join the "bad" team, they'll win, because those players are good. The only time that really doesn't happen is if there are a significant amount of people in the server.

crpg has a really good "auto"-balance



On the topics question, native isnt dying, its dead.

The native Multiplayer is really too simple to generate fun for a long time.
Its plain.

Having played native MP for some weeks, the average player gets bored and either starts to play crpg or plays other games.

Those who stick with native are

either clan members that enjoy the community of their clan

or some nerd duelists with good ping

but for all others native mp hasnt much to offer. you are forced to play the same maps over and over, are forced to play with the same few weapons all the time, and the balance in native is ridiculous.

Native clan wars are more counter strike than a melee game.

 

[captain lust]

Native is dying? I play nothing but Native and I can't see it dying any time soon.

It just had an activity curve, like any game. Lots and lots of people at the start, reducing to a smaller, stable amount. (Occasionally boosted by steam deals ).

No, Native's not dying. Not yet and not for a long time.

 

[Rend]

Bingo. There would have to be far more players and avatar development to streamline expert games from rookie games. For people like me that have real responsibilities in real life, I can't devote a thousand hours to mastering a silly game. Every few weeks I go online for a few games only to find all of the regulars are now that much better than they were 2 weeks ago, and I get further and further behind in skill. There are people that are on here every day it would seem. I can't compete with that, no matter hard I try. Despite how I'm told I should just be having the time of my life getting killed in 30 seconds and then watching a bunch of regulars play for 5 minutes and repeat; this is not fun. When I get a few precious hours to relax and play *I* would actually like to play. How popular would sports be if you had to start out playing against the best players in the world, and just sat on the bench 95% of the time never getting the chance to improve because you are not actually playing?

How about you play team deathmatch instead of battle? I played tdm all the time when I was a new player. I died loads, but that was fine cus I would spawn again in a sec.
When you dont have to wait for minutes between each life, I have no trouble with getting owned repeatedly. Just enjoy the lesson and try again.


I know it's been a while since the thread was started, but I still dont feel like native is dying. I sure wish it would be bigger, but I never have trouble finding populated servers for whatever game type I want to play. Seems to me like EU is more active than the US tho. Maby it's more of a problem for US players to find good servers.

 

[Lorn]

Spam is easily blocked. I've played nothing but fastest since beta and I've never been abused by spammers. It's all about proper blocking.

Some decent kicking would at least keep them from hugging you like a hippie, yet still have all the qualities of easier blocking.

The thing is, proper blocking can get borked on fastest due to improper speed scaling. Not only that, but it enhances ping problems.  But this isn't an anti-fastest thread; we've already had enough of those.

I agree though, we needs kicks back somewhat. Give back some turning radius and maybe let the victim move a little bit once stunned to not guarantee kickslashes (not that they shouldn't happen).

Also, the lack of turning radii has gotten rid of one of my favorite techniques-the slash-kick. I used it to catch people off guard a whole bunch of times.

Well and that's just the thing too. 1.27 was probably the peak of the game. Everyone had their own little niches and while some things were overpowered, they could easily be overcome with good teamwork. At 1.30 kicking being COMPLETELY nerfed (And I know a lot of people say they still can do it. I challenge ANYONE to kick slash me in game and kill me. I'll have your foot off so fast you will uninstall) most people stopped playing around this point. I could go on forever about kicking.

The point is that the game worked at 1.27. I don't think anyone really complained about having any major balancing issues (Other than people who want to hug spin to win.)

And if you like fastest or medium combat speed, that's entirely up to you. I've seen plenty of people play with 90+ ping on our servers and carry themselves beyond average.

What really needs to be done? -

The developers need to make it possible for servers to change more than the silly options available. Who REALLY wants no archery all the time. An auto balance feature would be glorious. Have 2-3 archers per 10 people. Same with cav or whatever you want it to be. How hard can that be to add. Allow servers to change more than what the Devs think is balanced. Because everyone knows that the minute 10 people hate something, they jump all over the forums and cry about it to have it changed. The developers can't possibly make everyone happy. So, leave it in the hands of the server admins. (The ones trying to keep this community alive).

Wow...months after that patch and you are still whining about it...you have mastered the art of pointless whining!!

Congratulations!

 

[DanAngleland]

Native is dying? I play nothing but Native and I can't see it dying any time soon.

It just had an activity curve, like any game. Lots and lots of people at the start, reducing to a smaller, stable amount. (Occasionally boosted by steam deals ).

No, Native's not dying. Not yet and not for a long time.

I don't play mods either. I tried cRPG, liked it at first for the team play but after a while it got very boring for me; I didn't like watching loads of people with the same mismatched gear running around (light mail and plate, huscarl shield, 'strange sword' and a two hander).  Invasion has never really gripped me for more than 20 minutes or so at a time, although there are undoubtedly some cool hordes to contend with and some of the maps are impressive. I occasionally like to play 1866 or Mount & Musket for shooting, especially 1866 when there are more players, but I haven't played either for a month or so, and I play multiplayer at least a couple of times a week these days.

Having said that, it is a shame that there are so few native modes played now; siege dominates. There are CTF servers around but very rarely populated, and there are a few populated battle servers that I have noticed. It is frustrating for those of us who much prefer native to mods.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Wow...months after that patch and you are still whining about it...you have mastered the art of pointless whining!!

Congratulations!

Wow...more than a month after a post and you commented on it! 

 

[Alyosha]

Best time to defect to cRPG, folks!

Lots of balancing and gameplay changes have been made that reward skill over leveling, yet still allow for reams of customisation. A level cap and upkeep system have also been introduced, so if all the plate-wearing infantry and armoured knights were putting you off playing, don't worry, they're now history.

Yours faithfully,

A cRPG cheerleader

 

[Archonsod]

Nah, it was the crappy mechanics and mistaking grind for fun gameplay that was putting me off

 

[? M]

Loads of native events going on and servers populated every time I want to play

 

[Alex_C]

Nah, it was the crappy mechanics and mistaking grind for fun gameplay that was putting me off

Huh, it's the community that keeps me away. =|

 

[Kevlar]

Best time to defect to cRPG, folks!

Just tried it and it is still as bad as ever. No skill involved when you can't swing as fast as other people or run as quick or survive as many hits.

Impossible to play against others from an early level which isn't to good. Rather play native where everyone is on equal footing instead of someone who can just run around spamming left mouse button without blocking just because they have been in the mod longer.

 

[Chaingun]

1) I don't agree with OP, but I guess the reasons to why have been covered enough already.

2) About CRPG:

Just tried it and it is still as bad as ever. No skill involved when you can't swing as fast as other people or run as quick or survive as many hits.

Agreed. Although I think that's why some people like it, so it goes both ways.

I still play native because I'm a lazy person I don't really got time to play more than one version of the game anyway. Perfection of whatever I'm doing is quite important for me. I'm also competitively minded so Native suits me (near) perfectly, though stuff like Swadian lance of imba and horse instakill throwing axes still annoy me sometimes (not intending to start balance discussion in this thread, these are my personal annoyances).

 

[MadocComadrin]

The real Raskolnikov would never have made such a blatant advertisement...or a necro.

 

[Chaingun]

Aha.

Didn't notice the necro.