Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Old Discussion Thread

[Kehlian]

Why exactly are we debating this kind of stuff on this particular thread, again ?

 

[MrMundy]

Because I said that southern Europe aint the main demographic TW should cater to. Appartenly that was enough for Yabloko to talk about borders and localization.
Its not like we got anything else to talk about in this thread anyways right now.

 

[VVyrd]

Why exactly are we debating this kind of stuff on this particular thread, again ?

You are right.


From now on this thread will be about Spider-Man.

 

[AelleCyning]

Will Bannerlord have some sort of time system, so we can recreate history?

we can do that with Warband, so I don't see why we wouldn't be able to do that with Bannerlord. Its unusual as mods try to focus on a period, but why not if someone is crazy enough.

Or as you want that, why not learn how to mod and start a project yourself? Plenty of time to learn stuff even if you never did anything (coding, modelling, design, story, ...)

Please don't assume anything... I'm a modeller and writer, and I know some code. I didn't know it could be done in Warband.

 

[November1983]

Will Bannerlord have some sort of time system, so we can recreate history?

we can do that with Warband, so I don't see why we wouldn't be able to do that with Bannerlord. Its unusual as mods try to focus on a period, but why not if someone is crazy enough.

Or as you want that, why not learn how to mod and start a project yourself? Plenty of time to learn stuff even if you never did anything (coding, modelling, design, story, ...)

Please don't assume anything... I'm a modeller and writer, and I know some code. I didn't know it could be done in Warband.

To this point there is not much else than assuming. If it´s possible we will see when Bannerlord is released.

Edit: As long as no one gets a look at the code spitting in his own face, no one can tell for sure 

 

[Yabloko]

Because I said that southern Europe aint the main demographic TW should cater to. Appartenly that was enough for Yabloko to talk about borders and localization.
Its not like we got anything else to talk about in this thread anyways right now.

Well I was talking about mcwiggum's question of why is Turkey considered European.

 

[kalarhan]

Please don't assume anything...

and I didn't. As I don't know you I was just being crystal clear that anyone can do it, no matter their current skill level and experience. You are on your way, which is cool, so now its up to you to decide if you want to invest time in this project, join one to help, or wait and see.

Good luck and visit the Forge if you want to learn about modding (subforum)

 

[Guray13]

Why exactly are we debating this kind of stuff on this particular thread, again ?

You are right.


From now on this thread will be about Spider-Man.

Just like as if "Should Turkey be considered as a european country or not" was very relevant to this topic.

 

[Yabloko]

Everybody knows this thread is de facto offtopic  whenever we lack news about Bannerlord.

 

[PanzerDan86]

I think that the geographic aspect, while important, is not the only consideration of whether or not Turkey can be called "European".  An equally important factor would be culture/religion.  All European countries share somewhat similar culture and all have a predominantly Christian history.  Turkey once also shared this Christian history but ever since the rampant and violent expansion of Islam, it is no longer a Christian nation with shared western values.  Many people forget that Europe has a very long history of trying to halt Islamic conquest. The Middle East was also traditionally a Christian area which was ravaged by Islamic Sharia's policy of "convert or die". The defensive nature of the crusades to take back land lost to Muslims ultimately failed and the Muslims took over both the Middle East and the Eastern Roman Empire (modern day Turkey). Since this happened so long ago, there is really no "going back" so to speak. Turkey will most likely remain an Islamic country, and thus, in my opinion anyway, it would be foolish of the EU to accept them as European. The recent "refugee" crisis in Europe only highlights this difference in cultures even more. I don't consider Muslims to be in any way "European" as many have seen with recent events.  I'm American, but my wife is European and we'll be moving to Europe again soon.  I sometimes fear that with the way things are going, there will no longer be a "Europe" as we know it within the next 50 years or so.  Just my 2 cents

 

[Lumos]

Your objection is noted, now fall back in the respective threads before the fuzz shows up and mutes you all.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

unnecessary islam rant based on historical stereotypes

Spoiler

 

[baca]

Spoiler

I think that the geographic aspect, while important, is not the only consideration of whether or not Turkey can be called "European".  An equally important factor would be culture/religion.  All European countries share somewhat similar culture and all have a predominantly Christian history.  Turkey once also shared this Christian history but ever since the rampant and violent expansion of Islam, it is no longer a Christian nation with shared western values.  Many people forget that Europe has a very long history of trying to halt Islamic conquest. The Middle East was also traditionally a Christian area which was ravaged by Islamic Sharia's policy of "convert or die". The defensive nature of the crusades to take back land lost to Muslims ultimately failed and the Muslims took over both the Middle East and the Eastern Roman Empire (modern day Turkey). Since this happened so long ago, there is really no "going back" so to speak. Turkey will most likely remain an Islamic country, and thus, in my opinion anyway, it would be foolish of the EU to accept them as European. The recent "refugee" crisis in Europe only highlights this difference in cultures even more. I don't consider Muslims to be in any way "European" as many have seen with recent events.  I'm American, but my wife is European and we'll be moving to Europe again soon.  I sometimes fear that with the way things are going, there will no longer be a "Europe" as we know it within the next 50 years or so.  Just my 2 cents

In fact, the "convert or die" policy was, throughout history, more employed by christian governments than muslim ones. There's a reason the Jizya tax is a thing. Take a look at Spain and how muslims were prosecuted there, and then look at the Levant, which was ruled by an islamic government for over a thousand years and maintained huge populations of jews and christians.

It's funny that you mention Islamic expansion as "rampant and violent", but don't look in the mirror and see Western expansion as something which was many times worse in terms of morality.

Off-topic much, looking forward to Bannerlord but worried about spaghetti AI code.

 

[PanzerDan86]

Spoiler

I think that the geographic aspect, while important, is not the only consideration of whether or not Turkey can be called "European".  An equally important factor would be culture/religion.  All European countries share somewhat similar culture and all have a predominantly Christian history.  Turkey once also shared this Christian history but ever since the rampant and violent expansion of Islam, it is no longer a Christian nation with shared western values.  Many people forget that Europe has a very long history of trying to halt Islamic conquest. The Middle East was also traditionally a Christian area which was ravaged by Islamic Sharia's policy of "convert or die". The defensive nature of the crusades to take back land lost to Muslims ultimately failed and the Muslims took over both the Middle East and the Eastern Roman Empire (modern day Turkey). Since this happened so long ago, there is really no "going back" so to speak. Turkey will most likely remain an Islamic country, and thus, in my opinion anyway, it would be foolish of the EU to accept them as European. The recent "refugee" crisis in Europe only highlights this difference in cultures even more. I don't consider Muslims to be in any way "European" as many have seen with recent events.  I'm American, but my wife is European and we'll be moving to Europe again soon.  I sometimes fear that with the way things are going, there will no longer be a "Europe" as we know it within the next 50 years or so.  Just my 2 cents

In fact, the "convert or die" policy was, throughout history, more employed by christian governments than muslim ones. There's a reason the Jizya tax is a thing. Take a look at Spain and how muslims were prosecuted there, and then look at the Levant, which was ruled by an islamic government for over a thousand years and maintained huge populations of jews and christians.

It's funny that you mention Islamic expansion as "rampant and violent", but don't look in the mirror and see Western expansion as something which was many times worse in terms of morality.

Off-topic much, looking forward to Bannerlord but worried about spaghetti AI code.

I don't mean to sound condescending here, I really don't...but history proves you wrong in your arguments.  I lived in Spain for more than 2 years (it's an awesome place by the way! Ilived in Ronda, check it out!) and while I was there I learned quite a bit about the Islamic conquest of southern Spain and the formation of "Al-Andalus".  The Moors invalided southern Spain sometime in the 700s and rapidly forced the conversion of the population to Islam. During this time it is well documented that many thousands of primarily blonde women were sold into sexual slavery to the various caliphates in the Middle East. Spain's Christian northern population eventually launched the "Reconquista" to take back the land and repel the Moors. The Reconquista lasted well into the 1400s until the fall of the last large Islamic stronghold in Granada. After hundreds of years of fighting the Moors were finally removed from Spain by force. Yes, both sides were brutal in their treatment of the other side, but the Muslim Moors started it, and the Spainards finished it.  During the time of the Al-Andalus caliphate it is well documented that the rich/royal native population was indeed treated well by the Moors but that the peasantry was oppressed, forced to convert or die, and sold into slavery in startling numbers. In my opinion the Spaniards had every right to kick them from the land after all they had endured. Apart from a few bad instances of Christians oppressing other religions, western/European conquest has never been as violent or extreme as that of Islamic conquest. Islam and Chrstianity handle conversion very differently. The reason for the Jizya was to force compliance and used to make non-Muslims second class citizens in territories conquered by Muslims. Christians *for the most part* looked to gain willful converts.  By the way, did you know that more people are now killed every year in the name of Islam than were killed in the entire 300 year history of the Spanish Inquisition? Interesting food for thought.


Anyway, I agree that we're going off topic here. I too am very exited about Bannerlord! I hope they give us more info on the 27th!!! 

 

[Mamlaz]

western/European conquest has never been as violent or extreme as that of Islamic conquest.

Remember that time when;

Spoiler

and then they;

Spoiler

only to turn on everyone else as well and then;

Spoiler

?

 

[Guray13]

Spoiler

I think that the geographic aspect, while important, is not the only consideration of whether or not Turkey can be called "European".  An equally important factor would be culture/religion.  All European countries share somewhat similar culture and all have a predominantly Christian history.  Turkey once also shared this Christian history but ever since the rampant and violent expansion of Islam, it is no longer a Christian nation with shared western values.  Many people forget that Europe has a very long history of trying to halt Islamic conquest. The Middle East was also traditionally a Christian area which was ravaged by Islamic Sharia's policy of "convert or die". The defensive nature of the crusades to take back land lost to Muslims ultimately failed and the Muslims took over both the Middle East and the Eastern Roman Empire (modern day Turkey). Since this happened so long ago, there is really no "going back" so to speak. Turkey will most likely remain an Islamic country, and thus, in my opinion anyway, it would be foolish of the EU to accept them as European. The recent "refugee" crisis in Europe only highlights this difference in cultures even more. I don't consider Muslims to be in any way "European" as many have seen with recent events.  I'm American, but my wife is European and we'll be moving to Europe again soon.  I sometimes fear that with the way things are going, there will no longer be a "Europe" as we know it within the next 50 years or so.  Just my 2 cents

In fact, the "convert or die" policy was, throughout history, more employed by christian governments than muslim ones. There's a reason the Jizya tax is a thing. Take a look at Spain and how muslims were prosecuted there, and then look at the Levant, which was ruled by an islamic government for over a thousand years and maintained huge populations of jews and christians.

It's funny that you mention Islamic expansion as "rampant and violent", but don't look in the mirror and see Western expansion as something which was many times worse in terms of morality.

Off-topic much, looking forward to Bannerlord but worried about spaghetti AI code.

By the way, did you know that more people are now killed every year in the name of Islam than were killed in the entire 300 year history of the Spanish Inquisition? Interesting food for thought.

Anyway, I agree that we're going off topic here.

Do you know a man called Hitler?Or do you remember who were living in America who now don't exist?

Anyways, saying that you agree you are going off topic but starting a deeper debate.
You make so much sense. Gratz buddy.
It will go nowhere and get the people involved muted.This is not the place here. Go somewhere else for these kind of stuff.

 

[Plovercrest]

Wait, why are we getting more info on the 27th?

 

[Worldsprayer]

Spoiler

I think that the geographic aspect, while important, is not the only consideration of whether or not Turkey can be called "European".  An equally important factor would be culture/religion.  All European countries share somewhat similar culture and all have a predominantly Christian history.  Turkey once also shared this Christian history but ever since the rampant and violent expansion of Islam, it is no longer a Christian nation with shared western values.  Many people forget that Europe has a very long history of trying to halt Islamic conquest. The Middle East was also traditionally a Christian area which was ravaged by Islamic Sharia's policy of "convert or die". The defensive nature of the crusades to take back land lost to Muslims ultimately failed and the Muslims took over both the Middle East and the Eastern Roman Empire (modern day Turkey). Since this happened so long ago, there is really no "going back" so to speak. Turkey will most likely remain an Islamic country, and thus, in my opinion anyway, it would be foolish of the EU to accept them as European. The recent "refugee" crisis in Europe only highlights this difference in cultures even more. I don't consider Muslims to be in any way "European" as many have seen with recent events.  I'm American, but my wife is European and we'll be moving to Europe again soon.  I sometimes fear that with the way things are going, there will no longer be a "Europe" as we know it within the next 50 years or so.  Just my 2 cents

In fact, the "convert or die" policy was, throughout history, more employed by christian governments than muslim ones. There's a reason the Jizya tax is a thing. Take a look at Spain and how muslims were prosecuted there, and then look at the Levant, which was ruled by an islamic government for over a thousand years and maintained huge populations of jews and christians.

It's funny that you mention Islamic expansion as "rampant and violent", but don't look in the mirror and see Western expansion as something which was many times worse in terms of morality.

Off-topic much, looking forward to Bannerlord but worried about spaghetti AI code.

By the way, did you know that more people are now killed every year in the name of Islam than were killed in the entire 300 year history of the Spanish Inquisition? Interesting food for thought.

Anyway, I agree that we're going off topic here.

Do you know a man called Hitler?Or do you remember who were living in America who now don't exist?

Anyways, saying that you agree you are going off topic but starting a deeper debate.
You make so much sense. Gratz buddy.
It will go nowhere and get the people involved muted.This is not the place here. Go somewhere else for these kind of stuff.

Ok so I'm not sure how you made that turn in logic.  we go from a series of (offtopic obviously) discussions regarding religious war to hitler and the overcoming of the native americans.  Neither of those two subjects had much of anything to do with spreading religion.

In fact, the vast majority of conflict in Europe had little to do with religious wars, but more dynastic in general.  While the crusades can be called religious wars (and they were), they were more interested in preserving territories than anything else and simply used religion as a motivator. 
It wasn't until the later second millennia that christianity so heavily ramped up it's violence as the catholic church began to fracture into what would eventually be the reformations, which makes sense as shaking organizations tend to grasp even tighter at their controls when things begin to slip.
The major issue between christianity and islam is that on one hand, christianity provided "absolution" to those who did bad things, "you'll be forgiven" essentially, while Islam instructs those bad things, even today.  Since in no place in the christian texts (new testament) does it instruct violence, yet often preaches the whole forgiveness topic.

It has to be remembered that while it's easy for us to look back now and lump everything together into these nice pretty movements of peoples and ideologies, it really wasn't so.  You had people seeing either themselves, their loved ones, or their ancestors murdered, tortured, sold, raped, evicted, whatever.  That caused anger and fear, and both of those emotions would inspire movements of people to resist or expel the offending (or perceived to be offending) parties.

Both sides did pretty bad things, that was the nature of the time quite frankly and we can't really compare an incredibly corrupt catholic religion to an incredibly fervent and bloodthirsty islamic sharia to a modern Christianity.  The only issue that can really be held is that islam remains largely the same fervent and bloodthirsty religion it has always been, we simply see communities being "dulled down" by being surrounded by more modern and developed societies that don't allow what the quran calls for.

In the end, it's off topic, history is awesome to look at because a dozen sets of eyes can see a dozen patterns or paths.  In the end....we have BANNERLORD.....or videos of it at least...

 

[kraggrim]

the overcoming of the native americans.  Neither of those two subjects had much of anything to do with spreading religion.

lol

 

[Alene]

There is an Off-topic section for stuff like this.