Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Old Discussion Thread

[Rusty7]

What exactly is Taleworlds doing on their Mount And Blade FB page? There was some weird information update post which gained a few funny comments and which was then removed, also the page seems to be online almost always since then

 

[VictorF]

In a conservative estimate this threat is made up of 50% spam posts. I guess you could banish spamming, at the cost of not having any meaning left for this threat to exist. To be fair, the thread probably doesnt have any meaning anyways. During this semi eternal periods of time without any info from devs it just keeps itself going out of forum desperation.

 

[Tarbosaurus]

wile they are busy they should ad Defense(AS a skill) so in a battle you dont just get a chest but as your skill in defense increases you get a few more sharp poles(stops cavalry from just charging trough your infantry ) in the ground at your starting area  what do you think?

Maybe I've dreamed it, but I think that they said there would be a camp feature, which allowed you to set up a small camp which lets you have some small defences if you are attacked while camped.

 

[hoe12moe]

So... any of them juicy fresh memes?

 

[FBohler]

I want a Bannerlord mod now where you can set up camp and micromanage your troops meals and sit down in your tent and eat cheese all day as you order your troops to go into battle without you.

This looks more like a DLC rather than an actual mod. A paid DLC, for that matter.

 

[aekilju]

I want a Bannerlord mod now where you can set up camp and micromanage your troops meals and sit down in your tent and eat cheese all day as you order your troops to go into battle without you.

Slice & Chop II: Kitchenlord

 

[Plovercrest]

I want a Bannerlord mod now where you can set up camp and micromanage your troops meals and sit down in your tent and eat cheese all day as you order your troops to go into battle without you.

This looks more like a DLC rather than an actual mod. A paid DLC, for that matter.

Paradox isn't their publisher anymore. Then again, imagine all of that sweet sweet DLC.

 

[Kehlian]

Maybe I've dreamed it, but I think that they said there would be a camp feature, which allowed you to set up a small camp which lets you have some small defences if you are attacked while camped.

You mean like the current warband, where you can setup camp and entranch it to increase def when attacked

 

[Tarbosaurus]

Maybe I've dreamed it, but I think that they said there would be a camp feature, which allowed you to set up a small camp which lets you have some small defences if you are attacked while camped.

You mean like the current warband, where you can setup camp and entranch it to increase def when attacked

Don't know if you are being sarcastic or something, but in Warband you cannot do that. Maybe in Viking conquest or some mod, but not vanilla Warband.

 

[TheSlowKnightofNi]

From the steam page, not sure if this is trustworthy..


This is an entry from one of the most popular sites from Turkey (it's sort of a turkish reddit) which I think have some very valid points for the struggle of release date. I directly translate what it says.

Entry date 17.06.2017

Guys the situation is not like you actually think it is, nobody is stalling us off. Turkey has just been learning what game development actually is. I am going to approach to the situation in a different point of view and explain everything, read til the end.

This year, around about February, I had a chance to talk to a developer and a graphic designer of mount and blade II bannerlord from taleworlds in Istanbul:
I asked why the game is so delayed. As you imagine, they said that they faced with a lot of problems while they were working on the immersion of the game. They said something like that. For example, one of the questions that I asked about it was;
Question 1:
- Will castle walls, buildings or other static objects be destroyed with catapults or other siege weapons?
- (Developer) yes, we are working on those things but there is a problem.
(i make it simple for you)
Let's say the building is destroyed. Particles from the destruction will be all over the place, small or big particles from the building flying. We are talking about a multiplayer game. If we calculate an explosion momentum with a simple physics calculation, and we scatter particles from the destruction randomly, how would that be like? it looks like a good solution.
Let's assume I am the player, a particle is just in front of me, but it is not at the very same location for another player. because particles are also scattered randomly on his computer and the same particle is located at a different position for the other player. now, will I pass right through that particle or that particle will block me from passing through? now you will say "why you scatter the particles from an explosion on every computer seperately? just calculate it on the server and send the same information of scattering patterns, time, velocity etc. to all computers that are connected to it.". Well, I wish. If that happens, we'll have vast amount of variance, calculation for a tiny bit of particle. a server needs to calculate for every collusion or destruction. so, servers probably die. tell us if you see any game that uses this method.

Another question is about design.
Question 2:
- Who decides how the costumes, environment, shield and armors should be like?
(Direct answer)
- (Graphic Designer) Every single thing comes from Armagan Yavuz. He tells us it's gonna be like this and this, we design it according to his instructions. We don'T know anything before he tells us about it. Before designing, an extensive research is done about clothes, shields and armors for historical realism and then, we design.

Answer of the first question is just an example, they also work on immersion intensively to make it more immersive and try to solve possible problems. all the immersion, graphical upgrades and AI etc. We ask for it and they are trying to do their best to make it happen and to feel satisfied with the results.

Taleworlds
This is not a massive game company. Armagan Yavuz is just an entrepreneur. Taleworlds starts with just 2 people and made from the scratch. It is independent and still on their start-up level, they do not have an army of software developers. just 50 employees... and mount and blade is something Armagan Yavuz imagined in the past, it is like his child. He is involved with every department, from software development to design, everything. So, of course, he says no to anything he is not satisfied with.

Bannerlord Project Development Period
Game Development Companies in Turkey hasn't known how should it be done yet. Taleworlds is the best one but they still don't have enough experience and they are on their start-up period, as I said. If we consider Bannerlord's process of project development. We are such a community that wants them to add things in the game. Armagan is the architect, so we and Armagan are the product owners which asked the development team to do things. The tasks are making a new game engine, reforming things, adding things that we are or are not aware of.

Scheme: http://noop.nl/wp-content/uploads/Simple-vs--Complicated-vs--Complex-vs--Chaotic-2-pi.jpeg

These tasks are anarchy for many developers, which are in the field of unknown technology. So it is a -we know there is something to be done but we don't know how we do it using which technology- sort of situation. First, they need to learn which technology they need to use to do a specific thing, and then learn the technology and start doing it. (Almost none of the tasks are in the category of chaotic for the tasks of software projects that were previously outsourced)

most importantly, tasks are not determined unless Armagan tells them. Constant feedbacks and flowing wishes keeps the release date undetermined

 

[TheSlowKnightofNi]

Of course, it's nothing new really. Seems logical though.

 

[Narlan]

Well, I wish. If that happens, we'll have vast amount of variance, calculation for a tiny bit of particle. a server needs to calculate for every collusion or destruction. so, servers probably die. tell us if you see any game that uses this method.

...  produral generation maybe ? Make the explosion procedural then let every client take care of the debris... a procedural key is sent to all players and defines the parameters of the explosion. That way they'll be sure all explosions are the same with all players.

 

[Attila7]

I don't buy it.

The problems described should have been handled and decided on years ago, when the in-house tools were developed. The tools determine the engine capabilities and what should be left to do now is what modders have been doing for years - add content.

If they still don't know how to handle destructible objects in a multi-player environment, take that feature out. Also, I dare say that most of us care more about combat and kingdom management features than historical accuracy in a fantasy world.

From what we have seen, the engine is capable of handling battles, sieges, scenes, conversations, bartering, games etc. The only thing that seems to be missing are the scripts that tie everything together and the balancing of the various factions.

I am pretty sure the delay has to do with a business decison and not a technical one.

 

[Duh]

As a modder I completely buy that unforeseen complications and feature creep can delay a release. I just wish they were more upfront with it and shared their development process with us.

From what we have seen

We were shown carefully selected and controlled content.

I am pretty sure the delay has to do with a business decison

I don't get this argument at all. Money-grabbers/Profit-maximizers do what CoD and AssCreed do... churn out a clone every year.

Unless you mean the business decision to put a lot of effort into the development of features and the resolution of technical issues

 

[Varrak]

Question 1:
- Will castle walls, buildings or other static objects be destroyed with catapults or other siege weapons?
- (Developer) yes, we are working on those things but there is a problem.
(i make it simple for you)
Let's say the building is destroyed. Particles from the destruction will be all over the place, small or big particles from the building flying. We are talking about a multiplayer game. If we calculate an explosion momentum with a simple physics calculation, and we scatter particles from the destruction randomly, how would that be like? it looks like a good solution.
Let's assume I am the player, a particle is just in front of me, but it is not at the very same location for another player. because particles are also scattered randomly on his computer and the same particle is located at a different position for the other player. now, will I pass right through that particle or that particle will block me from passing through?

If that is the reason of delaying (such a stupid excuse) then TW should fire that developer You supposed to let players pass through those random particles, like in all other games. Even in BF3, BF4 etc particles spread randomly and different for each player, then they dissapear after some time. In some games particles don't dissapear but they don't effect your movement neither. Here is an explanation of the technology from a guy who has nearly no experience in game developments, and even he knows 


Starts at 8:00

 

[Silen]

If that is the reason of delaying (such a stupid excuse) then TW should fire that developer You supposed to let players pass through those random particles, like in all other games. Even in BF3, BF4 etc particles spread randomly and different for each player, then they dissapear after some time. In some games particles don't dissapear but they don't effect your movement neither. Here is an explanation of the technology from a guy who has nearly no experience in game developments, and even he knows 

I suppose the problem is that we're not talking about small bricks, we're talking about big chunks of stone(?) coming off a wall, so for example they could be half the size of a player model, and then passing just through them would be a bit weird. However, yes, every game uses this method and often with big debris too so I kinda agree.

 

[Varrak]

I suppose the problem is that we're not talking about small bricks, we're talking about big chunks of stone(?) coming off a wall, so for example they could be half the size of a player model, and then passing just through them would be a bit weird. However, yes, every game uses this method and often with big debris too so I kinda agree.

The size of the wall particles depends on TW. In that video i just shared, those big chunks are also explained. If one big piece of the wall falls down because it has no connection with bottom part of the wall anymore, it could be calculated as a wall's itself when it falls down, and you could still remove small wall stone pieces after a while and let player pc calculate it instead of the server.

 

[Duh]

I am starting to understand why TW is being so tightlipped...

Varrak, the article states that this is one example of many that may have forced them to delay. It does not discuss whether this is a central challenge or just something the dev gave as a response to that particular question. And just because other games do it client-side doesn't mean TW shouldn't try to innovate. Lastly... why this hostility when you actually get some details? (Assuming this is legit.)

Edith:
Your video also mentions that the player size for an accurate simulation may have to be limited to 10. Pretty sure TW is not aiming for such a number.

 

[Varrak]

just because other games do it client-side doesn't mean TW shouldn't try to innovate.

It doesn't, and i didn't imply that in anyway. This technology is a common technology for games which has lots of players and highly physics activity. It's not like "all games do it so you do it", but "games which have heavyly physics load and much player number do this, and the reason is this and this, so you do this". It is so obvious.

Lastly... why this hostility when you actually get some details? (Assuming this is legit.)

The source is Ekşisözlük, so i was assuming this is not legit, and that is why i bashed on that so called "developer" if this is true and that is the case.

 

[Duh]

This technology is a common technology for games which has lots of players and highly physics activity. It's not like "all games do it so you do it", but "games which have heavyly physics load and much player number do this, and the reason is this and this, so you do this". It is so obvious.

And yet they may still face issues - even with this technology...  because they (probably) have 100-300 clients rather than 64/32/10.