Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Developer Blog 15 - Valuable Relationships

<p>Greetings all and thanks for making your way over to our 15th Development Blog. It's been a little while since we updated the blog, but we've been hard at work on the game and we're excited to talk a little about something we've been working on recently.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;" lang="en-GB"><a href="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/Blog/NPS_02.jpg" target="_blank"><img class="frame" src="/Images/Blog/NPS_02_575.jpg" alt="Command" /></a></p></br> Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/17

 

[aderemi123]

What might be interesting would be the ability to gauge the culture of the city after it has been successfully invaded. From one's own culture to the possibility of keeping that culture of the conquered city.

 

[Tuxu]

"While you might complete a single quest multiple times, the context within which you undertake the task, and the decisions you make, will mean the experience and the consequences can vary on each occasion."

Sounds like more repetitive procedural grinding to me.
I'd, for once, wish for some twists in those repeating quests and not being thrown into the proverbial procedural dumpster(again).

We did the same stuff for lords and villages in M&B and in M&B warband... I've also played "with fire and sword" but we don't go to ravenholm no more.
I am still carrying 6 bags of grain at all times in my inventory just incase one of my villages says they need it... The stress! :O

Can we stop the repetitive shenanigans and actually spice up the RPG\Mission part?
IDK...
*A random NPC running to you and then cry out "tell'em I went atta'way!" - running to the opposite route and leaving you with a fancy sword\horse\chicken of doom...
*A fat horse cross your way and die on the spot from an ugly looking laceration on it's left side, you take it's loot of toys and goods or you leave it... later some folks want their Barbie dolls warriors back for a dark Voidoo ritual...

I can get creative - please get creative too!

That would be great... Unlike repetitive mission. Which is not very great.

I love M&B like the next guy\girl - sometimes love is tough.

 

[Nordmann]

All the raging over the delays will cease to exist a week after release -

unless the game is bad/buggy/missing key features. At which point it will redouble.

They have every good reason to wait until it's ready to release it.  I don't think it's unreasonable to say they also want our money - which they won't get until the game is released. 7 years to release a AAA game isn't unusual. What's unusual (and incredible) is that the game they released 7 years ago is still played regularly. That's a serious accomplishment and one I hope they repeat and exceed with Bannerlord.

What worries me, is the lack of information. In all these years, we don't really have a lot to go on, and the blog posts are very infrequent despite their initial promises. What we have seen does indeed look good, but they could be a bit more open about development, and how they are doing. The wall of silence is troubling, as it doesn't take a lot of time or effort to post some new screenshots, or even a small update about progress.

I'll say this, if after all these years this isn't the best damned Mount & Blade we've ever played, ever, then there's going to be some questions which will need answering.

 

[killer-blead]

*A random NPC running to you and then cry out "tell'em I went atta'way!" - running to the opposite route and leaving you with a fancy sword\horse\chicken of doom...

You have that exact kind of random event in Skyrim.

 

[Tuxu]

*A random NPC running to you and then cry out "tell'em I went atta'way!" - running to the opposite route and leaving you with a fancy sword\horse\chicken of doom...

You have that exact kind of random event in Skyrim.

This just adds to my argument of avoiding a repetitive procedural grinding in quests.

It works great in skyrim - will work great here.

Call it a tribute if you must...

All the raging over the delays will cease to exist a week after release -

unless the game is bad/buggy/missing key features. At which point it will redouble.

They have every good reason to wait until it's ready to release it.  I don't think it's unreasonable to say they also want our money - which they won't get until the game is released. 7 years to release a AAA game isn't unusual. What's unusual (and incredible) is that the game they released 7 years ago is still played regularly. That's a serious accomplishment and one I hope they repeat and exceed with Bannerlord.

What worries me, ...
I'll say this, if after all these years this isn't the best damned Mount & Blade we've ever played, ever, then there's going to be some questions which will need answering.

feels like someone is going the FIFA way and that we are about to get the same game with a bit more shine and a trifle of half done features.

As far as I'm concerned this might be negligible if active mod support would be robust - I think I've played the vanilla without mods for something like 3 campaigns and that's only on M&B(the first).

Mods were and are the mainstay of this great game.

Talking about features - I'd bet they won't even consider adding Cantabrian Circle as a formation.  Just to show how basic the thoughts that were given in the design and how the lack of communication with the crowd prevents a vital enrichment of Dev's concepts of gameplay.

 

[Do not look here]

I don't really get your point, though. M&B games can last in-game years, how would you supply players with hundreds of unique quests that also wouldn't feel awkward? I mean all those wacky adventures may fit an RPG Chosen One, but down-to-Earth supply village with this or that or helping local merchants is more in spirit of being just a part of the world.

And then what you suggested doesn't even seem like valid alternative for quests, i.e. gaining respect for small favours. It's more like little events to immerse player and, sure, having something like that would be cool, but those two things don't have much in common.

 

[Tuxu]

I don't really get your point, though. M&B games can last in-game years, how would you supply players with hundreds of unique quests that also wouldn't feel awkward? I mean all those wacky adventures may fit an RPG Chosen One, but down-to-Earth supply village with this or that or helping local merchants is more in spirit of being just a part of the world.

And then what you suggested doesn't even seem like valid alternative for quests, i.e. gaining respect for small favours. It's more like little events to immerse player and, sure, having something like that would be cool, but those two things don't have much in common.

*A Man approaches you\your band;

** He asks you for help with $job:
$Job:
Find my $item
Bring X to me
Bring me to X
kill me(like the Umbra Sword quest from Morrowind)
Kill X
Make me a sandwich...

**He is a $Role from the nearest $Location of $LocationName

$Role:
Runner(default), Troop, other...
$Location:
Village, Castle, City, Bandit camp, other...
$LocationName:
Responding to the location type.


***He alerts you of a $condition in his $Location - It would appear that a $NpcClass affiliated to the $FactionName have arrived in $LocationName,
$NpcClass: Noble, Knight, Preacher, inquisitor, Guild Representative, Warlord, other...
$FactionName: Do I really need to fill this one too?

****The $NpcClass have declared $LocalEvent

$LocalEvent:

Festivities - Positive effect on the variety of commodities in the market.
an Ultimatum  - $LocationName will provide service \ payment \ goods \ slaves or be pillaged (like when you meet a farmer in an inn but with more options)
A Bounty - Catch a target and get gold, if player is the target that the options might be something like - kill the $roll to silence him(95% to evade detection)\Buy his silence(30% chance to evade+$LocationName's relations with the player - with a favor of 60 in that village evasion chances are 90%)\Buy his silence with threats(Costs Honor instead of gold, same calculation and negative effect to future relations with $LocationName)



It's basic at best but this is what I write down when I'm not getting paid for my keyboard time so i'll stop here.
I see a lot of game devs going into the murky realm of procedural quest generation and I have yet to see a good render of it, usually things sum up to be a rather dull repetition and it would disappoint me to see that Bannerlord design process culminates to arepetitive procedural grinding simulator.

I hope I gave you an idea about that notion with these ramblings of mine...
Thanks for asking.

 

[killer-blead]

Imagine walking on the street, you're a lord or perhaps just a Mercenary leader with several knights and a farming runs up to you. "Ey you, bring me 2 sacks of wheat and you will get 200 Denarii" you're like wtf, go grocery shopping of something, leave me alone.

If you want random events like that you don't need stuff happening to you, you need stuff happening to the environment and give you a chance to react to it. To take another skyrim event as example. The event in which you see a group of Stormcloacks or Imperials transporting a prisoner. You can do nothing, or try to save him and it can go wrong.

 

[aderemi123]

Also some kind of crown and/or scepter from the kings/queens who offer it if they surrender their forces to you.

 

[Do not look here]

Imagine walking on the street, you're a lord or perhaps just a Mercenary leader with several knights and a farming runs up to you. "Ey you, bring me 2 sacks of wheat and you will get 200 Denarii" you're like wtf, go grocery shopping of something, leave me alone.

Sure, but when you approach village elder and specifically ask him what can you do for the village because you're an owner and/or concerned citizen, then it's different story.

And then there are dozens of places on the map that won't be just bus stops on your way to glory. How many of such adventures/events can you have before it gets ridiculous that it all happens to random no-one? How many do you need to keep variety up for dozens of playthroughs? Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the idea itself, I'm just saying that those bland, 'flat' quests are still needed in the game so big in scope and largely non-scripted, cause they can almost universally fit everywhere.

They don't drive any story, they're just random favours done for people with various levels of power. You're basically running errands for them, so, imo, there's little place there for grandeur.

I agree, though, that exploring and immensing oneself into the game world should be rewarded with such optional little things. Kinda like in TLD mod, in which walking around gives you access to easter eggs and sidequests, or even hidden areas in some scenes.

 

[killer-blead]

I agree that random events should not be the center of attraction in the world. They should happen rarely and have either no significance or big significance.

But perhaps a trigger event is better. For example, lets say you are attacking a lot of bandit parties. They group up and send a group of elite fighters or just a big party of troops waiting in an ambush for you. We already had that half baked event where you could get mobbed on the street by "perhaps they are street thugs or perhaps a lord paid them to shorten your life". To be honest, the game is probably so far in development that these are either already in the game or it is already to late to place them in the game. But it is fun to play with the idea.

Spoiler

My apologies for any grammatical errors, I have been awake for nearly 24 hours.

 

[Cpt. Nemo]

*A random NPC running to you and then cry out "tell'em I went atta'way!" - running to the opposite route and leaving you with a fancy sword\horse\chicken of doom...

You have that exact kind of random event in Skyrim.

This just adds to my argument of avoiding a repetitive procedural grinding in quests.

It works great in skyrim - will work great here.

Call it a tribute if you must...

Gotta say, it doesn't work great in Skyrim. It is bland and repetitive in that game, and it would become just as bland and repetitive in Bannerlord.

 

[xdj1nn]

*A random NPC running to you and then cry out "tell'em I went atta'way!" - running to the opposite route and leaving you with a fancy sword\horse\chicken of doom...

You have that exact kind of random event in Skyrim.

This just adds to my argument of avoiding a repetitive procedural grinding in quests.

It works great in skyrim - will work great here.

Call it a tribute if you must...

Gotta say, it doesn't work great in Skyrim. It is bland and repetitive in that game, and it would become just as bland and repetitive in Bannerlord.

I don't get you... M&B only has bland and repetitive questing, that'd at least add some variety and make walking around less tedious... I rarely use the 'walk around town' in any of my playthroughs because all scenarios within the game are bland and there's absolutely nothing there to do, except hear some locals complaining or getting trading tips. Oh, and the "strange armor" set in annoying to reach chests...

To me, adding more "flat quests" to a point where there are hundreds of them would by itself make it less flat and repetitive...

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Gotta say, it doesn't work great in Skyrim. It is bland and repetitive in that game, and it would become just as bland and repetitive in Bannerlord.

Those quests in skyrim are bland because the rewards are so generic, and the world never changes. In warband however just about every quest has an effect on the world economy and it's possible to get attached to villages if it's the only fief you own.

 

[The Bowman]

Gotta say, it doesn't work great in Skyrim. It is bland and repetitive in that game, and it would become just as bland and repetitive in Bannerlord.

...attached to villages if it's the only fief you own.

That indeed. Warband's economy in built in such a way that some locations will require more or less effort to be kept prosperous. In some cases, you have to struggle for your village for it to make good profits. I remember owning Nomar. Not only I had to do quests to keep the village prospetiry up, but I also had to fend off constant Rhodok raid attempts. I have to admit I grew quite dependent on that village.

On a side note though, I hate the fact that raiding is so important to the AI. The only one who can defend the village in Warband is the player, and even though you may reject attacks from one specific lord multiple times, he will never grow fear of you. He'll just keep coming back, and that's pretty annoying.

I have also witnessed lord parties which consist of 0/1 men (with the lord being wounded), and they still managed to raid villages...

 

[kraggrim]

On a side note though, I hate the fact that raiding is so important to the AI. The only one who can defend the village in Warband is the player, and even though you may reject attacks from one specific lord multiple times, he will never grow fear of you. He'll just keep coming back, and that's pretty annoying.

I have also witnessed lord parties which consist of 0/1 men (with the lord being wounded), and they still managed to raid villages...

It looked like villages now have visible garrisons, so maybe they can actually fend off smaller lord parties. Though in WB villages technically had invisible garrisons (who didn't fight back against the npc lords), so might mean nothing.

 

[Bergil]

Just brought veil of crows. What I really want to buy is BL2! 

 

[Tuxu]

To me, adding more "flat quests" to a point where there are hundreds of them would by itself make it less flat and repetitive...

YES! Thank you! Exactly...

Now, instead of making each flat quest on it's own I merely suggested that they'd be created from a procedural template so the Devs would have to spend more time on creating templates that may yield numerous quests each rather then spend time working on each flat quest individually.

imagine how Bannerlord would feel if there were at least 50 separate different templates for procedural quest creation and Modders could add more...

That's the right approach to procedural design and that's what I hope to see in this title.

Those quests in skyrim are bland because the rewards are so generic, and the world never changes. In warband however just about every quest has an effect on the world economy and it's possible to get attached to villages if it's the only fief you own.

Amen to that, although I may have serious attachment issues if there wouldn't be much depth to Village interactions.

Just a Fancy and not a complete thought - If you have ownership of a Village\City or a local citizenship then Village management goes like a city management in "Europa 1400: The Guild" and "The guild 2".

Heck, I wonder if I could mod that in.

Idk about you people but that'd give me a reason to fight like I'm actually defending home.

 

[peenerz]

I hope they add random events and encounters like they have in A Clash of Kings or Brytenwalda, but more refined and without the annoying permanent debuffs (or make that an option you can turn off)

 

[xdj1nn]

I hope they add random events and encounters like they have in A Clash of Kings or Brytenwalda, but more refined and without the annoying permanent debuffs (or make that an option you can turn off)

That's a cheap mechanic to make the game less bland, if they indeed need that to enrich it a bit, it'll suck...
If you're looking for "free cheats" you'd be better off cheating instead...