Marriage - please make it less "random"

[MostBlunted]

I´m trying to marry Phaea and I have 69 charm.

So I pick an answer which has 84% success chance with no fail chance (at least the game shows it this way, if I understand it correct). 3 out 4 of traits are green, 1 is gray and it still fails (of course I save scumm this thing, but it feels bad):

Please make it less random, it´s not fun and it doesn´t make sense to me.


Maybe just give us 5 tries for 3 successful answers instead of 3/3?

 

[Oakenlix]

How come you're still playing this game you seem to hate so much?
Damn, I guess you're really in love with Phaea...

 

[MostBlunted]

How come you're still playing this game you seem to hate so much?
Damn, I guess you're really in love with Phaea...

I don´t hate the game, I´ve never hated the game. I was not satisfied with the development. TW delivered a very good update so I try it again of course.

If I would hate the game I would just have left it behind and wouldn´t have written a single word in this forum. But I guess you can´t understand this.

Can you say something on topic? Or are you on a personal war against me?

 

[Blood Gryphon]

I´m trying to marry Phaea and I have 69 charm.

So I pick an answer which has 84% success chance with no fail chance (at least the game shows it this way, if I understand it correct). 3 out 4 of traits are green, 1 is gray and it still fails (of course I save scumm this thing, but it feels bad):

Please make it less random, it´s not fun and it doesn´t make sense to me.

lol Did you know that they can just think you are ugly and it lowers your chance to marry them? Its in that thread about hidden features. I agree i almost dont want to see the %chance. Failing 90% success rates is brutal.

How come you're still playing this game you seem to hate so much?
Damn, I guess you're really in love with Phaea...

Hey I call him out when its deserved, but hes being reasonable here so dont harass him.

 

[MostBlunted]

lol Did you know that they can just think you are ugly and it lowers your chance to marry them? Its in that thread about hidden features. I agree i almost dont want to see the %chance. Failing 90% success rates is brutal.

It would also be fine if it happens "sometimes", but it took me like 8 tries to get 3/3, and I only took 70%+ answers. And each answer had at least 1 "green" trait and no "red" trait.

3 out of 3 seems to be too random for me. I mean even 95% will fail sometimes and then you´re "screwed" if you don´t save scumm.

I don´t think marriage should be random at all, it should depend on some things of course. But the game needs to be clear about it.

 

[Oakenlix]

Can you say something on topic? Or are you on a personal war against me?

Putting my armor on at this very moment and moving out on a crusade.

On topic: I completely agree with the suggestion.

Hey I call him out when its deserved, but hes being reasonable here so dont harass him.

Good point. Couldn't resist.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

It would also be fine if it happens "sometimes", but it took me like 8 tries to get 3/3, and I only took 70%+ answers. And each answer had at least 1 "green" trait and no "red" trait.

3 out of 3 seems to be too random for me. I mean even 95% will fail sometimes and then you´re "screwed" if you don´t save scumm.

I don´t think marriage should be random at all, it should depend on some things of course. But the game needs to be clear about it.

Yeah I think maybe there should be more low tier quests from clans for you to increase your relation with them and marrying someone should take a certain amount of renown and relationship with the clan to qualify for marriage. I understand the desire to not let you just marry anyone, but have it be locked behind things like relationship and even how the character looks. Like fine siga doesnt like beards, i dont need her anyways ?

 

[MostBlunted]

Yeah I think maybe there should be more low tier quests from clans for you to increase your relation with them and marrying someone should take a certain amount of renown and relationship with the clan to qualify for marriage. I understand the desire to not let you just marry anyone, but have it be locked behind things like relationship and even how the character looks. Like fine siga doesnt like beards, i dont need her anyways ?

Yes, that´s what I mean.

Lock it behind renown/quests/whatever, just make it less random. Of course we shouldn´t be able to marry whoever as a "fresh" character.

But also, it shouldn´t fail if you´re like in the late game and have "everything" because of some random stuff.

I´m also fine with stuff like "Woman X doesn´t like a beard", but make it clear to the player. Like that she says something like:

"You´re a true warrior, but I don´t like your appearance" or whatever.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Yes, that´s what I mean.

Lock it behind renown/quests/whatever, just make it less random. Of course we shouldn´t be able to marry whoever as a "fresh" character.

But also, it shouldn´t fail if you´re like in the late game and have "everything" because of some random stuff.

I´m also fine with stuff like "Woman X doesn´t like a beard", but make it clear to the player. Like that she says something like:

"You´re a true warrior, but I don´t like your appearance" or whatever.

Oh man that would actually be hilarious, "sorry but your hair looks terrible". All the sturgian women would say "sorry but must be a over 6 ft tall"

Also I know they want to keep it RPG style so instead of your traits and charm impacting your dialog chances just have them be factors in the equation of if you qualify for marriage. Keep the dialog chances to quests.

 

[Apocal]

I will say there's a bunch of stuff in the romance code about physical and trait attraction, familial relations, wealth, etc.

 

[Telyon]

Marriage is an area I see no reason to have any random checks whatsoever. To use an example from another game, Fallout: NV overcame the burdens of RNG checks through using thresholds for persuasion – either your character had 50 speech or they didn't. Bannerlord has the luxury of having a lot of factors to call upon here. Relation with the clan, the player character's traits, the player character's charm, and the potential spouse's traits. Instead of a preposterous 89% chance if you have three out of four traits congruent with an answer, why not something like the following? In the specific example seen in the OP, the player requires at least two out of the following to progress to the next stage:

• Choosing an appropriate response congruent with the spouse's traits
  • For example, a merciful spouse would appreciate "the good outweighs the evil" over "cruelty is fascinating"
• Over a certain charm stat threshold
• Over a certain relation threshold
• An overlap/congruency with the spouse's traits.
  • For example, if the spouse is Calculating, Merciful, and Honorable, then they will match with a player that is Merciful.

 

[Svang]

Yeah, the courting system needs to be overhauled. Warband's system was never ideal, but at least it wasn't RNG. It was based on personality types instead.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I will say there's a bunch of stuff in the romance code about physical and trait attraction, familial relations, wealth, etc.

You should explain the "successes seed" roll chance thing you talked about before. Could that be his problem? He's stuck with a bad roll so picking the 80% is always going to fail? Or did that get patched out?

Also I feel Marriage dialogue is much easier in 1.4.3 and 1.5, but I only play the girl MC, could it be easier for female?
It was way easier for female in warband.

I agree I don't like % chances at all in this game TBH, just make re-loading and annoying. I would rather have a transparent system that displays if you can or cannot marry or recruit someone and why. Like the combination of charm, relation, traits , world situation ect....

 

[Blood Gryphon]

I will say there's a bunch of stuff in the romance code about physical and trait attraction, familial relations, wealth, etc.

Thanks I was trying to find your quote from the hidden features thread, amazing find.

So anyway, something that was driving me absolutely bonkers had to do with marriage. Sometimes I would get the "I'm just not attracted to you" line, like most players, and someone else (on here or Reddit, I can't find the post anymore) mentioned that you could get around that by savescumming, going back into the facegen and adjusting your looks until she likes you appearance. Originally, I was skeptical and took it as a placebo but when I tested it (not looking through code, empirical observation) it appeared different women had varied preferences. Some didn't like beards, some liked different hair or eye colors, some liked scars, etc.

Well, I started digging and found where it is (I think...) in TaleWorlds.CampaignSystem under Romance:

This is quite the cool feature actually, but it is buried so deep that most players will never notice.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Marriage is an area I see no reason to have any random checks whatsoever. To use an example from another game, Fallout: NV overcame the burdens of RNG checks through using thresholds for persuasion – either your character had 50 speech or they didn't. Bannerlord has the luxury of having a lot of factors to call upon here. Relation with the clan, the player character's traits, the player character's charm, and the potential spouse's traits. Instead of a preposterous 89% chance if you have three out of four traits congruent with an answer, why not something like the following? In the specific example seen in the OP, the player requires at least two out of the following to progress to the next stage:

• Choosing an appropriate response congruent with the spouse's traits
  • For example, a merciful spouse would appreciate "the good outweighs the evil" over "cruelty is fascinating"
• Over a certain charm stat threshold
• Over a certain relation threshold
• An overlap/congruency with the spouse's traits.
  • For example, if the spouse is Calculating, Merciful, and Honorable, then they will match with a player that is Merciful.

+1

 

[Kenzo-0-]

I would like to see an overhaul for marriage as well.

 

[cyberonn]

I think it should never be random. And we shouldn't see any percentage. And I think we shouldn't even see their traits. We shouldn't even see our own traits. It should be told by other lords to us like "you are an honorable person" in some occasions after a trait of ours becomes known to people.

We should be able to ask people their opinions about lords and get to know about them. TW tried too much to make somethings easy like learning lords's locations on encyclopedia, voting for fiefs etc. that there is no dialogue left. I think votes should be casted in a feast, locations should be able to be learnt through asking lords and traits should be learnt through asking lords. Right now we are able to learn traits of everyone from encyclopedia from the very start of the game where no one knows us. And this makes no sense. It could make a good perk to guess a trait of someone from dialogues with a small chance too. Or their wordings could hint their traits.

We should be able to ask about the woman or man that we want to learn about, make plans to earn their liking (asking if they like beard, learning what kind of personalities do they like, what kind of gifts would they like etc.), speak to her/him about their way of thinking as they ask us, chat about daily stuff etc. System shouldn't reward save scumming and shouldn't force people to do it. It should be labor based. We should grind to marry the lady/lord we're gonna live together until death.

Right now one can marry a lady with three dialogues. Admitting admirance, introducing opinions, persuading marriage.If it could be like introduction, some daily conversation, getting to know, asking his/her friends about him/her, gifting stuff according to personality, admitting admirance after getting some relation, then maybe some poems like warband, meeting with their parents (maybe a dinner), improving relations with parents, speaking about marriage, getting permission from parents, then marrying; it would be way more immersive.

 

[stevehoos]

I spoke about this issue at length in my immersion thread. Needs a major redo.

 

[Oakenlix]

We shouldn't even see our own traits. It should be told by other lords to us like "you are an honorable person" in some occasions after a trait of ours becomes known to people.

Look, your face is handsome, but not as much as mine, therefore you're incorrect.

Traits and ratings are a good thing to have access to. Otherwise, why have relationship ratings by the same logic? It's just so you don't have to remember each of your friends' names, that'd just get very tedious really quick.

That being said, I agree that the marriage process could use some more complexity, I just don't think that's the right way to go about it.

 

[MostBlunted]

Traits and ratings are a good thing to have access to. Otherwise, why have relationship ratings by the same logic? It's just so you don't have to remember each of your friends' names, that'd just get very tedious really quick.

I agree, this don´t need to be a hardcore RPG.

But right now, when it comes to marriage, it just feels too random.