Cutpurse3 said:
Nope, he's around 2,000 years old, and even older than that if you count the fact that he existed before he went to Middle Earth but Saruman only becomes incredibly important during the LoTR era.
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Nope, he's around 2,000 years old, and even older than that if you count the fact that he existed before he went to Middle Earth but Saruman only becomes incredibly important during the LoTR era.
I just did a simple search.
Cutpurse3 said:
However, Sauron and Saruman are both Maiar, and have existed before Arda was made, so it really makes no difference. As for how long Saruman stayed on Middle Earth, it was from 1,000 TA(The Third Age lasted 3k and some years), to around 3k TA, when he was killed permanently due to the fact he lost his immortality after he failed to follow the rules of the Valar.
Saruman is possibly killed around 3019 TA
Oh congratulations, now you got me really confused.
VonTawast said:
Ok, let's not include Sauron since he's on Middle Earth based on special circumstances. Saruman, and Gandalf are Maiar, which was basically spirits created by Valar, which are the deities of the LoTR universe. They were created before Middle Earth was made, but they were sent to Earth in the physical form of men in a thousand years after the Third Age started in order to stop Sauron.
Zigama said:
Nope, they were sent to stop Sauron. Gandalf in the book got killed by a Balor, which was one of Morgoth's creations. If Gandalf was killed by a Balor, then he was as strong as one of the Elven warriors/warlords that fought repeatedly against Morgoth's armies of Dragons, Orcs, and Balors. Also, the Istari aren't mentioned in the Silmarillion during the Elvish/Morgoth wars or the rise of Numenor, and if Gandalf would of been there when Sauron tricked the Numenoreans into literally attacking Middle Earth's form of Heaven, history would of been altered completely. Anyway, since you guys mentioned the Silmarillion, it would be interesting to guess who would win in a 1vs1 fight, Fingolfin, who was able to wound Morgoth, who was basically a God compared to him, or Gandalf, who again, was an ancient being who was killed by a former servant of Morgoth(the Balor).
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Gothic Knight said:
I think you mean Balrogs not Balors. Correct, Gandalf was not sent until after the fall of the Numenoreans. It is also interesting to note that he was forbidden from facing Sauron openly as the Valar intended him to be only an advisor to the figures of middle earth so they might succeed against Sauron. He did slay the Balrog, though the effort physically killed him. He and the Balrog were more or less equal majar spirits. Aside from Gandalf, there was of course Saruman, Rhadagast the Brown (hung around in Mirkwood), and the two Blue wizards who I believe aroused a war in Gondor in fourth age (check me on that)
Fingolfin indeed was great to face Morgoth and cripple him. But it is important to note that the evil Morgoth allowed to corrupt himself robbed him of much of his strength. After he took the form of a dark lord he was unable to change back into anything else. He lost the power to change the face of Arda and his hatred consumed him. In the questionable scenario of Fingolfin vs Gandalf I would say gandalf presuming he could use his magic. If not, then Fingolfin would have no problem beating him up. However, if Fingolfin and Gandalf met they would likely shake hands and go in search of the nearest dark lord to beat up on.
Oops, Balrog, not Balor,(it's the DnD talking). I guess it was rather frightening that after corrupting Arda and creating Dragons and Balrogs, that Morgoth was still able to strike down Fingolfin after the Elf Lord exerted so much effort to beat him. As for the match up part, Fingolfin probably had some epic equipment from that age and I'm not sure Gandalf would be able to down him so easily with magic.
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Gothic Knight said:
In my opinion Fingolfin was better than Morgoth. Note that he wounded Morgoth 7 times before he became exhausted and even then he still had a little surprise. Think, in a fight you get hit hard 7 times without even touching your opponent? Seriously. Morgoth only had the victory because he was one of the Valar and therefore could not be slain, aka CHEAT. So yea in my opinion Fingolfin>Morgoth.
As to epic equipment, if I could just touch Ringil!
I gotta buy these books.
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VonTawast said:
You got that right!
Tolkien is often considered the father of High Fantasy, search "fantasy" on Wiki and his name comes up in the first paragraph, before Tolkien, Elves, Dwarves, and such were just little childs fairy tails.
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soozo12 said:you guys talked about it if it really happened that time
Rephrase that, you sound like someone who just ordered Rosseta Stone.
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