Horse charge too powerful?

[Stylus]

The threat system really does need rewriting to be honest.. I'm clearly the most threatening unit on the field, lvl40 epically kitted out etc, yet I still find units running straight past me to get to a Farmer or whatever. Either the AI is smart enough to know it stands no chance, or its too stupid to recognise threat. Either way, needs rethinking.

The morale system in this mod is a definite step in the right direction.

 

[zemegauser]

Just replace horses with cars, problem fixed.

 

[Mythos]

Thats already how it is. Chargers get stopped unless you run through a well formed mob just right

Indeed - try running through a well packed mob, and you'll be real slow by the 4th guy. The best people to charge at are a well spaced archer line. The space gives you time to pick the speed back up.

Yeah... except the last time I played I charged through a block of 6+ sea raiders on my heavy charger with literally no slowdown at all.

 

[RegalKain]

I have to agree to some extent. It's the reason I almost always use fulll cavalry. Namely Master Crusaders, Lordless Knights etc etc etc. Cause really 300  Master Crusaders cut down pretty much everything I've come against so far with very VERY little issue. The initial charge completely obliterates 80% of the enemy. And I keep my cavarly on follow and just lead them time and time again on heavy wedge charges into the enemy. The only people this doesn't work on as well are the Rhodoks, whom I usually dismount and bash up anyway cause they suck VS Master Crusaders on the ground, and the Dark Knights, whom obliterate everything else anyway. =p

 

[DamienZharkoff]

Your argument is now invalid. You are comparing TOP TIER cavalry as your example. You fail.

But some pages against rhodok master spearmen.

Or master crusaders against elite habrediers and elite swordsmen. Lets see how long those horseys last

 

[Mythos]

Ummm... his argument is invalid because he uses good units? What? I don't know if some seperate argument got started, but the fact that they're top tier units doesn't change that their charge is horrendously overpowered.

 

[anifreak]

Ummm... his argument is invalid because he uses good units? What? I don't know if some seperate argument got started, but the fact that they're top tier units doesn't change that their charge is horrendously overpowered.

Very, very, very true!

Most of you are arguing the case using a single horse as the subject. I doubt anyone would have charged an army with a single horse unit. That would be a mistake and an epic one at that.

And that's the problem, the fact that a single horse is able to do something which would require a sizeable group to achieve.

 

[DamienZharkoff]

It has nothing to do with the horse, and everything to do with the AI. If the AI knew how to effectively use spearmen, there wouldn't be ANY cavalry at all :p

As for his argument being invalid...

Take that master crusader, now but him up against an Einjehar (Or however you spell the bloody thing)

On field, the cavalry will crush a single one. En masse, the cavalry will get clumped up in the mass of axe men and cut to bits. Cavalry is MEANT to be over powered, or else nobles wouldn't ****ing use horses  Now, put those master crusaders in a siege assault, then siege defense against those Einjehars and watch them get torn to shreads. Right now, my Cavaliers are getting torn to shreads by the rhodok elite halbrediers. Why? Because those bastards unhorse them then proceede to beat the crap out of them.

In the end, to help solve this issue, all that needs to be done is to give each faction a (Weaker then rhodoks) dedicated spear line.


"I have to agree to some extent. It's the reason I almost always use fulll cavalry. Namely Master Crusaders, Lordless Knights etc etc etc. Cause really 300  Master Crusaders cut down pretty much everything I've come against so far with very VERY little issue"

BTW, if you are using a bunch of master crusaders.... YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WIN YOU GIT! Your argument is invalid because you are spamming top tier units 

(Might I add this is why I slap people who whine about the game being to easy, yet they don't start out new each time, they just import their character? Of course its to easy! You are level 33 when you start out with 90,000 denars  )

 

[cadaverescu]

first of all horses are for elites. No low life peasant rides horses. so don`t put recruits to stop the elites. Those of us who have been around since 0.4... know that the dark ones can only be stoped by more elites and not by spamming recruits.
So a mounted unit (even the low life rhodoc light cav) is a over the average unit. Heavy mounted units that come with chargers are elites.
now... a ivory archer can stop and kill any elite cavalery on a flat terain. i think he can stop Lady Death herself.
a elite arbalestier can i shot kill any other troop off the horse and kill it with the halberd.
i think the game is extremeley balanced when it comes to the power of troops and weapons.

 

[Mythos]

BTW, if you are using a bunch of master crusaders.... YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WIN YOU GIT! Your argument is invalid because you are spamming top tier units 

That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't matter that top-tier units should be good, that doesn't mean you should be able to win any fight by spamming one type of unit. And actually, from my experience, Cavaliers actually kick ass on foot. There's almost no point to training Swadian Infantry, when a dismounted/in a siege Cavalier is actually far better than a champion.

 

[DamienZharkoff]

Thats the ****ing point of the swadians! They are all about having the most badass cavalry @.@ (Though I honestly think champions do better at killing)

Why not whine next that the khergits are to fast?

That the nord infantry kicks their cavalries and everyone elses infantries ass?

Whine that the rhodoks are so good at taking down cavalry? Or good at catching you randomly with those braced or couched spears? Or whine that their arablastiers can two shot you?

 

[Mythos]

Because the khergits aren't too fast. My cavalry can always catch them effortlessly. The nord infantry does kick ass, but my cavalry have never had any problem with them. Just yesterday I saved Sir Mirchaud's ass against an army of several hundred nords, and barely lost any of my cavalry. Yes, the rhodoks are good at taking down cavalry thanks to them consisting almost entirely of spearmen, but they're probably the only kingdom that can actually hold up their special thing to an insane cavalry rush.

 

[DamienZharkoff]

and again, this comes down to two things.

1. Enemies not having any to very few high tier units.

2. Only one kingdom having a dedicated spear line when spears were the basis of any armor really.

 

[Mythos]

I'm gonna have to agree with you there. It's strange how few high tier units enemy armies have, and just adding a spearmen line could easily bring swadian cavalry a step down. They wouldn't be completely useless since they're still good fighters on foot, but they wouldn't be an unstoppable line of doom.