High tier equipment as a goal for end game

[Dabos37]

Devs have confirmed that the reason because high tier equipment is so much expensive currently, is because they want Lordy armor to be a goal for end game (plus there is a “bug” which makes high tier equipment not available, but this is a different matter).

The idea behind high tier equipment being insanely expensive is something which I have always disliked because it brings issues, makes the game actually less enjoyable and les immersive/realistic.

It makes the game less immersive because of:

- You can get tier 5 units pretty fast and pretty easy in the game, and these T5 units (who were recruits some few time ago) are magically able to get the best available armor (Legionares or Heavy Axemen) without any effort, while you are the one who pays their wages.
- Medieval Armor and Warhorses had a similar cost. In Bannerlord you can buy about 500 warhorses for the price of just one T7 chest armor, which makes the game feels pretty unrealistic and unbalanced.
- We are able to get towns, castles, become a strong vassal and even a strong king, but we are still not able to pay the best possible armor for us and for companions (keep in mind that being the best possible equipment means 600-800k denars per character). So most of people feel forced to steal spouses’ armor or cheat the game, in order to be able to do not look like a beggar, while all your army looks like badass elite units.

It makes the game less enjoyable because of:

- Immersion killing due to previous points.
- fighter companions are useless, too expensive soldiers who will always be behind T5-T7 units because we cannot find/pay high tier equipment for them. The decision for making armor insanely expensive just destroys any feeling of possible customization for companions which is pretty enjoyable in Warband.

Plus this horrible decision also brings issues like town not being able to create these armors because the whole town would go to bankrupt if buying the armor... Please, reconsider this decision and reduce high tier armor because it is currently unnecessary and unrealistically expensive, and it actually does not bring anything good for the game. A goal for the end game should not be something which everyone else is able to get pretty easy except the player, this is silly. Just add master work quality armors like in Warband if you want to keep super expensive armors, but do not force the player to steal spouses’ armors or to look like a recruit compared to units in the army who the player pays wages.

 

[Shun]

I agree completely. To add to the point, for some strange reson it's easier for the player to get equipment from the enemies culture via looting than it is to get equipment from your own culture (via trading or however), which you may very well be a noble of.

IMO, the game should offer reliable ways to get faction specific high end equipment. Quite some suggestions have been named on the forums by different users, be it quest rewards, gifts of fealty when joining a faction as a lord, paying some weapon/armorsmith to make equipment, etc etc.

Sorry for not remembering who originally posted these suggestions.

But as it is, the dissonance between how good your and your enemies troops are equipped, how hard it is for the player to get good items to use themselves and how incredibly expensive top tier items are is too damn high.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

This is certainly an inconsistency that is just as worrying as the damage value of the armour itself. I remember @Medivhtratos threat where a slight change in the code reduced prices to reasonable levels (warband prices).

Top armor price. Warband

There are also several mods that have experimented with it but since I have not tried them personally I don't know what the long term consequences could be as a result.

Personally, the explanation of why it was decided to do this is not satisfactory to me (Dabos37, if you read this, please add the dev quote in your initial message so that anyone who hasn't read it can be informed).
It's illogical that with the price of an armor you can recruit x units of high tier; where do they get the armors, from the flea market?

If you have to lock up an item it should be by skill level (like weapons, horses, etc) as it has always been done, not by exorbitant prices.

 

[geala]

I also concur. The formula to create armor costs is strange and leads to strange results. It is not only the top tier armor but also mid tier which partly is affected. I frequently see weird prices and price relations. For example lately a helmet with 40 armor costs half of that what you have to pay for a helmet with 46 armor. What the heck ...?

For me it's also a fact that better armor has too low an armor rating. An easy solution is to increase it in the xml files, however that also adds to the problem of grossly exaggerated prices.

For this reason I cheat, using Kaszniam's Make Lords Naked mod (silly mod name, great mod) to get high tier armor, mainly to sell it and buy armor I like for my companions. I only use it on (bandit) lords which are injected in my game by mods, not normal lords, to balance it a bit, but logically in real life you could take the armor from any lord you captured, couldn't you?

 

[Dabos37]

This is certainly an inconsistency that is just as worrying as the damage value of the armour itself. I remember @Medivhtratos threat where a slight change in the code reduced prices to reasonable levels (warband prices).

Top armor price. Warband

There are also several mods that have experimented with it but since I have not tried them personally I don't know what the long term consequences could be as a result.

Personally, the explanation of why it was decided to do this is not satisfactory to me (Dabos37, if you read this, please add the dev quote in your initial message so that anyone who hasn't read it can be informed).
It's illogical that with the price of an armor you can recruit x units of high tier; where do they get the armors, from the flea market?

If you have to lock up an item it should be by skill level (like weapons, horses, etc) as it has always been done, not by exorbitant prices.

This is the thing, this is the best possible armor in Warband, which only the player (and maybe king Haralus) are able to get. The problem in Bannerlord is that we have to pay an insane amount of gold for getting the same armor than a regular unit is able to get. I can get the swadian knights armor for 10K as much in Warband, while I have to pay 500K for the chest armor which a regular legionary is able to get. Seriously, how is possible that devs could think it is a good idea to make the game in this way? So are all T5-T7 units in calradia rich or exactly what is happening here?

 

[geala]

I think one reason for weird and very high prices is that the weight of the item seemingly plays a role in the formula, the heavier the pricier. Or am I wrong? With this reasoning a thick, heavy and cumbersome iron armor would be more expensive than an armor made of hardened steel which achieved the same protection with much less weight.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

+1 to this thread. Hopefully @Duh_TaleWorlds and his team consider and act on this feedback.

 

[Twezie]

This is one of the big things I have always disliked, but I think a part of the solution would be to increase troop costs, since wasn't medieval plate armor etc really expensive back then? It should be expensive for the player, maybe not 500k but still expensive, but it should also be expensive for the troops. So upgrading units to t3 or something would be fine, but getting to t6 should not be as cheap as it is now. Why not have armor for unit upgrades work like horses? You need the armor to upgrade, and if soldier dies you get it back. idk

 

[Theofilos]

I would say this is a fair 50 euro end game content,you ppl should be thankfull and enjoy taking pics with your shiny armor after working hard into the game to achieve this great feature :p

 

[a_ver_est]

If they want to be a end game feature please add some high tier armors not used by regular troops, something special that only lords can buy.

It may have a slightly better stats but with precious (gold, gems,...) decoration also.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

A big problem with "end game content" in a game like this, is when exactly is the end game? For me, the end game might start after 5 or 6 years, when I own a few fiefs, have hundreds of thousands of denars in my treasury and lead an army capable of knocking down cities. For someone else, the end game might be when their child has grown up and inherited the throne. When are we supposed to be able to access this end game content? I really don't want to have to wait several lifetimes just to get the good gear

 

[Theofilos]

Well i dont even understand why ppl want the best gear in vanilla since its only cosmetic,it does absolutely nothing to maybe protect you? haha
I only hope they will fix those darn sieges and release full moding tools,nothing else i could expect from these guys honestly.

 

[AndrewArt]

Yes I agree, make troops more expensive. Game is way too easy as it is

 

[AndrewArt]

This is one of the big things I have always disliked, but I think a part of the solution would be to increase troop costs, since wasn't medieval plate armor etc really expensive back then? It should be expensive for the player, maybe not 500k but still expensive, but it should also be expensive for the troops. So upgrading units to t3 or something would be fine, but getting to t6 should not be as cheap as it is now. Why not have armor for unit upgrades work like horses? You need the armor to upgrade, and if soldier dies you get it back. idk

yeah, get back the armor IF you win the battle (if you lose, the enemy gets the loot). And make armor and weapon system more in-depth, as make it damaged once it goes through battle. That will reduce armor, and also will reduce price. Make it cracket, cut, it would be some really lovely aesthetic. The game has no money sink atm late-game. Smithing could be used to repair armor/weapons with mats, or you could pay a town smithie a good sum of money to repair armors/weapons for you. If you make these changes you can also increase the effectiveness of armor, to make it way stronger than it is. That would make for a nice balanced game, good way to nerf the ranged troops as well which are too strong.

 

[Twezie]

That would be great. Indeed the there needs to be more money sinks and this would add a good one while fixing this armor price/unit cheapness issue.

 

[bestmods168]

This is certainly an inconsistency that is just as worrying as the damage value of the armour itself. I remember @Medivhtratos threat where a slight change in the code reduced prices to reasonable levels (warband prices).

Top armor price. Warband

There are also several mods that have experimented with it but since I have not tried them personally I don't know what the long term consequences could be as a result.

Personally, the explanation of why it was decided to do this is not satisfactory to me (Dabos37, if you read this, please add the dev quote in your initial message so that anyone who hasn't read it can be informed).
It's illogical that with the price of an armor you can recruit x units of high tier; where do they get the armors, from the flea market?

If you have to lock up an item it should be by skill level (like weapons, horses, etc) as it has always been done, not by exorbitant prices.

I remember the strength requirements from warband. They could even put a item requirement like, "requirement = leader". This way, even if one is a bandit lord they can still get lordly items.

 

[Dabos37]

If they want to be a end game feature please add some high tier armors not used by regular troops, something special that only lords can buy.

It may have a slightly better stats but with precious (gold, gems,...) decoration also.

Agree with this, this is exactly what we had in Warband and it worked pretty well.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I remember the strength requirements from warband. They could even put a item requirement like, "requirement = leader". This way, even if one is a bandit lord they can still get lordly items.

Agree with this
, this is exactly what we had in Warband and it worked pretty well.

Exactly... they have insisted on reinventing the wheel again and again.


Taleworlds reinventing the wheel for Bannerlord colorized.

 

[vonbalt]

Why oh why? warband had such a good balance, if they simply copied and pasted it in bannerlord the economy/combat etc would already be improved 1000x without using a single mod

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Why oh why? warband had such a good balance, if they simply copied and pasted it in bannerlord the economy/combat etc would already be improved 1000x without using a single mod

Yeah, and most importantly, it would be DONE and they could focus on new content and features.