High tier equipment as a goal for end game

[Cabell]

IMO, the game should offer reliable ways to get faction specific high end equipment. Quite some suggestions have been named on the forums by different users, be it quest rewards, gifts of fealty when joining a faction as a lord, paying some weapon/armorsmith to make equipment, etc etc.

Agreed - I’ve made a couple recent suggestions on this subject. Personally, getting equipment via looting seems like it’s more of a roguery thing to strip bodies. I think it should be part of the game, but not the only way. Slapping some bondo on a dead bannerknight’s helmet doesn’t seem like the most reliable means of protection.

If they want to be a end game feature please add some high tier armors not used by regular troops, something special that only lords can buy.

It may have a slightly better stats but with precious (gold, gems,...) decoration also.

Someone pointed out in response to my suggestion on the subject that there are already examples of this - namely, the legionary cone helmet is a more basic version of a noble helmet that has gems on it. Hopefully, new items will be added along these lines.

One advantage to giving nobles a separate tier level is that it could potentially be easier to buff say all tier 6 items to increase the effectiveness of noble armors if the mortality rate seems too high.

yeah, get back the armor IF you win the battle (if you lose, the enemy gets the loot). And make armor and weapon system more in-depth, as make it damaged once it goes through battle. That will reduce armor, and also will reduce price. Make it cracket, cut, it would be some really lovely aesthetic. The game has no money sink atm late-game. Smithing could be used to repair armor/weapons with mats, or you could pay a town smithie a good sum of money to repair armors/weapons for you. If you make these changes you can also increase the effectiveness of armor, to make it way stronger than it is. That would make for a nice balanced game, good way to nerf the ranged troops as well which are too strong

I like these ideas especially giving an alternative to the smithing route by paying someone. I’d also like to see something along the lines of VC where there were special NPC’s who could make Uber weapons. They could also be able to increase the effectiveness beyond your average smith. I’m imagining something along the lines of Witcher 3’s appr

 

[Magello]

A separate tier for leader only armor seems to be the best way to go. Also, I really like the idea of significantly increasing the time, money, and maintenance of your tier 5 and 6 units. These are way to easy to get and to pay for early in the game. There needs to be a point were if they are going to need this equipment you need to have a reasonable way to have access to it for their upgrades.

Some sort of agent you need to hire, bride a captain in one of their cultures cities, or to capture one and make them train your soldiers so you can upgrade them to the next tier.

A way to supply your soldiers with the right gear for the tier 5 and 6, you could have a high relationship with the right gang leader to steal and smuggle out the armor and weapons. Or need a certain smithing level in order to create and maintain the armor/weapons.

These are just some ways to keep this high level equipment rare and less of these higher level soldiers everywhere. And can set a way for the player to get access to really rare leader only armor someone before mentioned. You should need to bribe, earn, capture, or steal the designs and then need a place to make them for you.

 

[black_bulldog]

In WB you could win really nice armor from a tournament or it could even drop in battle, if you had someone whose looting skill was high, but in BL we can't beg, borrow or steal armor without cheating or modding. I don't need top tier stuff day 1 but I shouldn't have to put in 100+ hours into a playthrough just to get the best stuff. Gating cosmetic stuff off till it's end makes it feel like they were modeling BL after an mmorpg not a single player game.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Gating cosmetic stuff off till it's end makes it feel like they were modeling BL after an mmorpg not a single player game.

I know its a bit off-topic but I am pretty sure they will try this in the future.

 

[black_bulldog]

I know its a bit off-topic but I am pretty sure they will try this in the future.

There are so many elements in this game where I say to myself why does this feel like I'm playing an mmorpg? I never felt that way about Warband.

 

[Shun]

There are so many elements in this game where I say to myself why does this feel like I'm playing an mmorpg? I never felt that way about Warband.

Really? I honestly did not think of that. What would be some of the elements which seemed MMO-like for you?

 

[Magello]

There are so many elements in this game where I say to myself why does this feel like I'm playing an mmorpg? I never felt that way about Warband.

It really feels like the game is setup to be a mmorpg, the loop, really light rpg elements, and everything just feeling skin deep when it comes to decisions. I really would not be surprised to learn if this was not on purpose.

There is just nothing really strategic, or really feels like a lasting decision in the game. Also, I can never really get the feeling of becoming "lost" in Calraidia like I did in Warband or Viking Conquest. Just a big empty world with constant fighting and fetch quests.

 

[black_bulldog]

Really? I honestly did not think of that. What would be some of the elements which seemed MMO-like for you?

Putting a stamina timer on crafting would be the most outstanding thing to me, but gating off high tier armor/weapons is another and also the incredible amount of grind that is required to level up many skills is very mmo like too.

It really feels like the game is setup to be a mmorpg, the loop, really light rpg elements, and everything just feeling skin deep when it comes to decisions. I really would not be surprised to learn if this was not on purpose.

There is just nothing really strategic, or really feels like a lasting decision in the game. Also, I can never really get the feeling of becoming "lost" in Calraidia like I did in Warband or Viking Conquest. Just a big empty world with constant fighting and fetch quests.

Yes the amount of fetch quests is another thing I forgot to list.

 

[Shun]

Putting a stamina timer on crafting would be the most outstanding thing to me, but gating off high tier armor/weapons is another and also the incredible amount of grind that is required to level up many skills is very mmo like too.


Yes the amount of fetch quests is another thing I forgot to list.

Oh yeah I forgot smithing. That's some arbitrary bull**** gating for sure. Very FTP MMO like. The Skill leveling speed would have to get balanced around the expected lifetimes of characters when dynasteis are implemented and work. But for now it's quite slow, depending on the skill.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Thank you all for contributing to my off-topic point. I am pretty sure their next game will be an MMO game, but I rather not derail this thread much more. This discussion should be its own thread.

 

[black_bulldog]

Thank you all for contributing to my off-topic point. I am pretty sure their next game will be an MMO game, but I rather not derail this thread much more. This discussion should be its own thread.

First we are discussion high end equipment, but sometimes things go off on side tangents. Second this is not your thread and you're not a mod so you don't get to say what people discuss. If the OP or a mod has a problem then they can let us know that.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Didn't mean offense to y'all, just a courtesy to the OP. I started the off-topic discussion, so that's why I suggested to end it, note the verb should at the end of the sentence of my previous post

 

[Shun]

It's a good point, and a good thread. Let's get it back on topic.

Edit: another option would be to have high tier items as wedding gifts.

 

[Oakenlix]

Bro, just sell a javelin

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

Devs have confirmed that the reason because high tier equipment is so much expensive currently, is because they want Lordy armor to be a goal for end game (plus there is a “bug” which makes high tier equipment not available, but this is a different matter).

I'm not sure about this statement, my idea is that this concept is for the moment as a place holder and it will be tweaked, even now it's not an end game goal as you can have only reasonable armor and do just fine. As for upcoming changes I hope they apply this concept https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/switch-the-money-sink-from-items-to-troops.433102/

 

[Marajah]

Devs have confirmed that the reason because high tier equipment is so much expensive currently, is because they want Lordy armor to be a goal for end game (plus there is a “bug” which makes high tier equipment not available, but this is a different matter).

The idea behind high tier equipment being insanely expensive is something which I have always disliked because it brings issues, makes the game actually less enjoyable and les immersive/realistic.

It makes the game less immersive because of:

- You can get tier 5 units pretty fast and pretty easy in the game, and these T5 units (who were recruits some few time ago) are magically able to get the best available armor (Legionares or Heavy Axemen) without any effort, while you are the one who pays their wages.
- Medieval Armor and Warhorses had a similar cost. In Bannerlord you can buy about 500 warhorses for the price of just one T7 chest armor, which makes the game feels pretty unrealistic and unbalanced.
- We are able to get towns, castles, become a strong vassal and even a strong king, but we are still not able to pay the best possible armor for us and for companions (keep in mind that being the best possible equipment means 600-800k denars per character). So most of people feel forced to steal spouses’ armor or cheat the game, in order to be able to do not look like a beggar, while all your army looks like badass elite units.

It makes the game less enjoyable because of:

- Immersion killing due to previous points.
- fighter companions are useless, too expensive soldiers who will always be behind T5-T7 units because we cannot find/pay high tier equipment for them. The decision for making armor insanely expensive just destroys any feeling of possible customization for companions which is pretty enjoyable in Warband.

Plus this horrible decision also brings issues like town not being able to create these armors because the whole town would go to bankrupt if buying the armor... Please, reconsider this decision and reduce high tier armor because it is currently unnecessary and unrealistically expensive, and it actually does not bring anything good for the game. A goal for the end game should not be something which everyone else is able to get pretty easy except the player, this is silly. Just add master work quality armors like in Warband if you want to keep super expensive armors, but do not force the player to steal spouses’ armors or to look like a recruit compared to units in the army who the player pays wages.

100% agree. I think the only higer tier armors I ever found for sale were the battanian mercenary armor and some aserai armor that got slightly nerfed recently. No amount of reasonable prosperity or tampering workshops seems to effectively pour high quality armor for sale. The only reliable way to get good armor is still demading your wife's as dowry.

I also found the soldiers' top armor so immersion breaking I used to not upgrade troops. Just felt weird

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Troops should be the money sink, not your own gear. Sh*t's ass backwards, smh.

But for real though OP, give us the quote. I really want to believe you're just speaking bull, but if you can prove otherwise, then damn...

 

[Akka]

This i

I also concur. The formula to create armor costs is strange and leads to strange results. It is not only the top tier armor but also mid tier which partly is affected. I frequently see weird prices and price relations. For example lately a helmet with 40 armor costs half of that what you have to pay for a helmet with 46 armor. What the heck ...?

I'm pretty sure that's because gear is divided into "tiers", and tier have a larger impact on price than on stat.
TBH I've never understood this whole idea of "tier" for gear. It's a gamey concept that should not exist.

 

[Ling*]

I think this issue stems from the core problem with the current campaign gameplay loop. From my observation this is what every playthrough seems to be: Kill units, Make Money, Spend Money, Repeat. In such a limited sandbox system that has no real complexity in player decision making or gameplay outside of a battlefield, it's no wonder they think adding high tiered expensive equipment for the player to have as a goal to grind for is a good idea, when in reality it just results in a very bland gameplay experience if a constant grind for gold is what the developers deem to be fun.

 

[Hans 77]

Why oh why? warband had such a good balance, if they simply copied and pasted it in bannerlord the economy/combat etc would already be improved 1000x without using a single mod

At this point -I hate to say it, but they really should just make it like Warband.

A lot a the "new directions" they went in Bannerlord turned out to be failed experiments, and I literally see no other successful path moving forward other than build on top of what worked - and by that I mean, of course, Warband.

Yeah, and most importantly, it would be DONE and they could focus on new content and features.

So true. And this is what blows my mind. They had the blueprint right in front of them. They had an entire script of what worked and was proven and successful. All they had to do from there was start adding new content and features -as you said. Had they simply done this, Taleworlds could have saved a lot of time and resources.