Anushtegin
Sergeant
this thread is supposed to compare and contrast the various troop trees and how they work. the aim is to improve the logic and consistency of troop upgrades and balancign within and between factions.
first off, the aserai:
general outline:
the aserai begin with the recruit. it then branches off into two near-identical footsoldiers with shields. the tribesman in turn branches off into a ranged and a melee footsoldiers, the mameluke soldier branches off into a horse and foot branch with 2-handed poleaxe(?). the noble line is a horse lancer/javelin skirmisher.
the good:
battania:
general outline:
the battanians begin with the volunteer. it then branches out into a heavy footman and a light footman, i suppose. the heavy footman then branches into a spear & shield footman and a horseman. the light footman branches into a polesword footman and a javelin skirmisher, which in turn branches into a foot and horse variant. the noble line is a foot archer/2H footman.
the good:
the empire:
general outline:
the empire starts out with the recruit. it then branches off into a melee and ranged footman. the melee footman branches off into a swordsman with shield and javelin/spear and a poleswordsman. the ranged footman branches into an archer and a crossbowman. the archer finally branches into a foot archer and horse archer. their noble line is a heavy lancer.
the good:
khuzaites:
general outline:
the khuzaites start out with the nomad. it then immediately branches out radically into a horse archer and footman. the horse archer in turn branches into further horse archers and lancer line. the footman branches into archers and heavy foot. their noble line is a horse archer with glaive.
the good:
sturgia:
general outline:
the sturgians start out with the recruit. it then branches off into a melee and a ranged footman. the melee footman branches off into a spear and shield-armed footman and a 2 handed axeman. the spear and shield footman further branches off to a poleswordsman(?) and a final spear and shield footman. the ranged footman branches into a javelin skirmisher and an archer line. the noble line is a heavy spearman/lancer with shield.
the good:
finally, vlandia:
general outline:
the vlandians recruit branches off into a ranged (crossboman) and a melee footman. the melee footman branches off into a spearman and a swordsman. the spearman ultimately branches off into a billman and a pikeman. the swordsman branches off into a cavalryman and a footman with sword. their noble line is a heavy lancer.
the good:
bonus! mercenaries:
general outline:
the mercenaries start out with the watchman. the watchman branches off into footmen and horsemen. the footmen further branch into melee (swordsmen with shield) and ranged (crossbowmen). there is obviously no noble line.
conclusions and recommendations:
the aserai and khuzaites are limited by havign only five final upgrades as opposed to six for everyoen else. the aserai's troop tree needs soem significant love. the branching off into the aserai tribesman and the mameluk soldier is arbitrary and limits gameplay. there should be five branches + noble line: foot archer, foot skirmisher, horse skirmisher, lancer, horse archer and spearman. currently, the noble line already doubles as lancer and skirmisher, which is perhaps a bit unfortunate.
for the battanians, the radical thing to do would be to make the noble line 2H swordsmen/heavy cavalrymen, and the archers move into the regular troop tree. i know this will be unpopular, but it doesn't make much sense for noblemen to be archers and not horsemen who can only afford horses. at least the tier 5 spearman with shield and javelin skirmisher should be more different.
the empire is seriously lackign in cavalry, period. for one, there's no reason the vigla recruit starts on foot. second, there's no real reason to have near identical archers and crossbowmen. it would be best if the archers already get a horse by tier 4, not tier 5.
the khuzaites have only two shortcomings: they have only five different final upgrades (incl noble line) and the difference in quality between the two tier 2 upgrades. they should ultimately have the followign setup: horse archer, lancer/glaive?, spearman, skirmisher, foot archer, horse skrimisher. i'm, not sure how to retool the troop tree, but getting from raw recruit to horse archer with one upgrade, jumping perhaps a foot archer upgrade seems excessive. plus they already can get a tier 2 horse archer with their noble troop tree right now.
sturgians, i don't really have much to say. their noble line should maybe get a horse with tier 4 already, or even earlier than that. maybe also look into switchign up the foot skirmisher/mounted skirmisher upgrade that is better done in the battanian troop tree.
vlandians seem alright. they could maybe look into givign the regular troops a tier 3 horseman already.
mercenaries are too "western", which is in itself not an issue. but right now, there are no mercenary horse archers, even though they were common mercenaries in the middle ages. it would also add some flavor to add black (nubian) spearman, archers, maybe light horsemen exclusively to spawn in aserai town taverns. also, maybe too radical of a change, but i'd also like to see mameluks not in the regular aserai troop tree but recruitable as mercenaries in taverns. turkish mameluks were obviously not recruited from north african and levantine towns and villages but from captured slaves that were sold on slave markets in egypt. so havign mameluks recruited from slavers in taverns makes the most sense. generally, westerners were not the only mercenaries on the market and the current mercenaries don't fit in well with aserai and khuzaites.
bonus suggestion: vlandian and empire ranged militia troops should have crossbows, not bows. the crossbow was easier to handle than bows and required less training, more fittign of militias.
thoughts and further suggestions are welcome!
first off, the aserai:
general outline:
the aserai begin with the recruit. it then branches off into two near-identical footsoldiers with shields. the tribesman in turn branches off into a ranged and a melee footsoldiers, the mameluke soldier branches off into a horse and foot branch with 2-handed poleaxe(?). the noble line is a horse lancer/javelin skirmisher.
the good:
- the aserai can get a horseman by tier 3 (mameluke regular). their noble unit also starts out mounted. their armies generally never lack horsemen.
- as said, the two tier 2 upgrades are near identical in equipment, givign them less variation early on. also, without checking the encyclopedia first, you will have no idea which one branches off into a ranged unit and which one branches off into a horseman
- the aserai, like the khuzaites, only have four different tier 5 troops in the regular branch as opposed to five for all other factions
- the aserai are the only faction not to get missile troops with tier 2, and only get a long-ranged missile unit with their tier 4 foot and horse archers
- the ranged footmen starts out with javelins, but further upgrades make them archers. conversely, the melee footmen get javelins upon reaching tier 5. this is inconsistent
- similarly, the tier 3 horseman starts out a lancer, but the upgrades make them horse archers and losign their lances. this is also inconsistent
battania:
general outline:
the battanians begin with the volunteer. it then branches out into a heavy footman and a light footman, i suppose. the heavy footman then branches into a spear & shield footman and a horseman. the light footman branches into a polesword footman and a javelin skirmisher, which in turn branches into a foot and horse variant. the noble line is a foot archer/2H footman.
the good:
- the battanians have five different types of tier 5 regular troops
- the battanians get horsemen by tier 4 and can get a horse skirmisher by tier 5 as well. their armies generally have more horsemen than you would expect
- the battanians get the cheapest noble line, as they do not require a war horse to upgrade to tier 6.
- the battanian armies generally have very few archers, due to them beign locked into their noble line. their noble line is also the only one that is not eventually mounted.
- the tier 5 heavy spearman with shield gets javelins, making them near identical to the tier 5 foot skirmisher
the empire:
general outline:
the empire starts out with the recruit. it then branches off into a melee and ranged footman. the melee footman branches off into a swordsman with shield and javelin/spear and a poleswordsman. the ranged footman branches into an archer and a crossbowman. the archer finally branches into a foot archer and horse archer. their noble line is a heavy lancer.
the good:
- the empire gets five different tier 5 regular troops
- their noble line starts out on foot and only gets a horse by tier 3. outside of their noble line, the empire factions can only get horsemen by reachign tier 5(!). consequently, their armies have significantly less horsemen than they should have
- the empire as well as sturgia have the most expensive noble line, requiring both a horse as well as a war horse to upgrade to tier 6
- the empire has both archers and crossbowmen, givign their armies more firepower than say the battanians.
khuzaites:
general outline:
the khuzaites start out with the nomad. it then immediately branches out radically into a horse archer and footman. the horse archer in turn branches into further horse archers and lancer line. the footman branches into archers and heavy foot. their noble line is a horse archer with glaive.
the good:
- the khuzaites get horsemen earlier than anyone else, save for noble troops, and half their regular troops plus their noble line is mounted. their armies consequently have the most horsemen and are also the fastest.
- the khuzaites, like the aserai, only have four different regular tier 5 troops.
- the tier 2 ranged/mounted upgrade is significantly better than the tier 2 foot.
sturgia:
general outline:
the sturgians start out with the recruit. it then branches off into a melee and a ranged footman. the melee footman branches off into a spear and shield-armed footman and a 2 handed axeman. the spear and shield footman further branches off to a poleswordsman(?) and a final spear and shield footman. the ranged footman branches into a javelin skirmisher and an archer line. the noble line is a heavy spearman/lancer with shield.
the good:
- the sturgians get five different tier 5 regular troops
- the sturgians get horsemen no sonner than tier 4 in their regular branch, and tier 5 in their noble line.
- sturgia like the empire have the most expensive noble line, requiring both a horse as well as a war horse to upgrade to tier 6
- the final skirmisher (javelin) upgrade is exclusively mounted. the heaviest footman with javelins is in an entirely different branch (melee -> spear & shield). this is better solved in the battanian troop tree, where the final skirmisher upgrade lets you decide between a footman and a horseman.
- sturgia get their first long-ranged missile unit with tier 3 (foot archer)
finally, vlandia:
general outline:
the vlandians recruit branches off into a ranged (crossboman) and a melee footman. the melee footman branches off into a spearman and a swordsman. the spearman ultimately branches off into a billman and a pikeman. the swordsman branches off into a cavalryman and a footman with sword. their noble line is a heavy lancer.
the good:
- their noble line starts out on horse
- they have five different tier 5 regular troops
- the vlandians get horsemen by tier 2 in their noble line but only by tier 4 in their regular line. this seems slightly inconsistent.
bonus! mercenaries:
general outline:
the mercenaries start out with the watchman. the watchman branches off into footmen and horsemen. the footmen further branch into melee (swordsmen with shield) and ranged (crossbowmen). there is obviously no noble line.
conclusions and recommendations:
the aserai and khuzaites are limited by havign only five final upgrades as opposed to six for everyoen else. the aserai's troop tree needs soem significant love. the branching off into the aserai tribesman and the mameluk soldier is arbitrary and limits gameplay. there should be five branches + noble line: foot archer, foot skirmisher, horse skirmisher, lancer, horse archer and spearman. currently, the noble line already doubles as lancer and skirmisher, which is perhaps a bit unfortunate.
for the battanians, the radical thing to do would be to make the noble line 2H swordsmen/heavy cavalrymen, and the archers move into the regular troop tree. i know this will be unpopular, but it doesn't make much sense for noblemen to be archers and not horsemen who can only afford horses. at least the tier 5 spearman with shield and javelin skirmisher should be more different.
the empire is seriously lackign in cavalry, period. for one, there's no reason the vigla recruit starts on foot. second, there's no real reason to have near identical archers and crossbowmen. it would be best if the archers already get a horse by tier 4, not tier 5.
the khuzaites have only two shortcomings: they have only five different final upgrades (incl noble line) and the difference in quality between the two tier 2 upgrades. they should ultimately have the followign setup: horse archer, lancer/glaive?, spearman, skirmisher, foot archer, horse skrimisher. i'm, not sure how to retool the troop tree, but getting from raw recruit to horse archer with one upgrade, jumping perhaps a foot archer upgrade seems excessive. plus they already can get a tier 2 horse archer with their noble troop tree right now.
sturgians, i don't really have much to say. their noble line should maybe get a horse with tier 4 already, or even earlier than that. maybe also look into switchign up the foot skirmisher/mounted skirmisher upgrade that is better done in the battanian troop tree.
vlandians seem alright. they could maybe look into givign the regular troops a tier 3 horseman already.
mercenaries are too "western", which is in itself not an issue. but right now, there are no mercenary horse archers, even though they were common mercenaries in the middle ages. it would also add some flavor to add black (nubian) spearman, archers, maybe light horsemen exclusively to spawn in aserai town taverns. also, maybe too radical of a change, but i'd also like to see mameluks not in the regular aserai troop tree but recruitable as mercenaries in taverns. turkish mameluks were obviously not recruited from north african and levantine towns and villages but from captured slaves that were sold on slave markets in egypt. so havign mameluks recruited from slavers in taverns makes the most sense. generally, westerners were not the only mercenaries on the market and the current mercenaries don't fit in well with aserai and khuzaites.
bonus suggestion: vlandian and empire ranged militia troops should have crossbows, not bows. the crossbow was easier to handle than bows and required less training, more fittign of militias.
thoughts and further suggestions are welcome!
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