Damage in this game is Ridiculous

[King Yngvar]

The problem is armour, that's it.
Weapons should be lethal. If you're sat wearing a t-shirt and joggers (essentially peasant gear), and someone swings a sword at your chest, you're going to be fatally wounded most likely from one swing.

Now if I'm not mistaken, plate armour was effective at preventing slashing and cutting. It wasn't as effective at preventing piercing damage - and Chainmail was effective at preventing piercing damage, but could easily (in regards to what it actually is) be broken by excessive slashing and cutting.

So... there's the problem;
1. No Armour prevents mortal wounding to the point where a single slash, or single arrow, cannot actually kill a target (unless headshot).
2. Plate Armour doesn't prevent slashing damage much, its barely different than having no armour.
3. Chain Armour doesn't prevent piercing damage any more than plate armour would, which is essentially the same as having no armour on.

All in all;
Armour is broken.

Armor is broken and useless in game, yes. However, you got that one all wrong. Plate armor was effective against everything, mail was effective against cuts.

 

[King Yngvar]

1. Why wear helmet when it doesnt protect from a headshot ? It means the helmet is gfood enough to protect the wearer or its a waste weight. Helmets thus should protect form headshots, when they are good enough and not open.

Head and face could be made into two different hit boxes. Face could be something you could only hit with a stab or a projectile if your target wore a metal helmet. Arrows would bounce off if hitting where the helmet actually is while killing your target if you hit the unprotected face. Face shot, not just headshot should be required. Another thing that could be added is blunt damage to all weapons, while cuts should not go through metal armor they could still do some blunt damage.

 

[ToodlesGalore]

From what I heard armor ia supposed to be ****. In the story lane Bannerlors happens before Warband, which means metallurgy and armor skills are trash. And it reflects in the in game armor. So it seems to me that this was intended so you don't rely too much on armor.

 

[Maximum997]

In the story lane Bannerlors happens before Warband, which means metallurgy and armor skills are trash. And it reflects in the in game armor

Did you ever see a lamellar armor? It is imposible to pierce with any melee weapon exept may be 2handed hammer.




Just look. Heavy crossbow against crappy "AliExpress" lamellar at 10 meters range. It didnt even scratch a gambeson.

" It is not a plate so i can cut it with a knife! It is historically accurate!"

 

[ToodlesGalore]

Did you ever see a lamellar armor? It is imposible to pierce with any melee weapon exept may be 2handed hammer.




Just look. Heavy crossbow against crappy "AliExpress" lamellar at 10 meters range. It didnt even scratch a gambeson.

" It is not a plate so i can cut it with a knife! It is historically accurate!"

This is a game, not an armor simulator. Hell even in Mordhau you can cut plate with a dagger slash lol

 

[Maximum997]

which means metallurgy and armor skills are trash. And it reflects in the in game armor.

This is a game, not an armor simulator.

...........

- It is good, becouse it is so historically accurate
- but it isnt
- it is jsut a game!1

What is next? Adding a spider-man lord becouse this is a game?

Hell even in Mordhau you can cut plate with a dagger slash lol

In Mordhau you can oneshot full armored knight with a frying pan(if you are horseman). The game should have some logic.

 

[Razdv]

Actually in case of realism, in history armor was very effective agains ranged and melee weapons. But it was extremely expensive and individually fitted to warrior, and before invention of watermills it was really hard to craft.
In some cases in history armored knights were knocked out from a horse, surrounded by enemies and enemies started to land strikes him with everything they had, and it was no effect at all, knight even wasn't injured, may be incapacitated for a few minutes. Sometimes he was able to stand up and enemies ran away, because knight even on foot was very dangerous and scary. And yes he was able to stand up without help. Forget those myths.

And about knights tournaments... Early tournaments were with combat weapons actually without any restrictions, and it was look as war or military drills, involved feudal parties against other feudal parties. And casualties were quite uncommon. Someone were injured or even killed, but not often.

Also known that some warriors even in mail/leather armor were studded with arrows after combat but uninjured. Arrows weren't pierced through armor.

Just look at this:

Trust me, armor and weapons are reproduced quite accurately. Couched lance hit on 80 km/h (40+40) is very powerful. This lance stick is 50 mm thick, try to break it.

On foot. Real combat swords weren't sharp too. As you see they are holding swords by blade sometimes. Yes it was possible in real combat at war with real combat sword.
So realism isn't for this game at all But you can mod the game, change armored troops hp to stamina and wait untill they fall of exaution on battlefield

From Russian fairy tales about Russian bogatyrs: "and they fought for three days and three nights"

 

[ToodlesGalore]

...........

- It is good, becouse it is so historically accurate
- but it isnt
- it is jsut a game!1

What is next? Adding a spider-man lord becouse this is a game?

In Mordhau you can oneshot full armored knight with a frying pan(if you are horseman). The game should have some logic.

Lol the frying pan is quite hilarious! 10/10 addition to the game.

Pretty sure at one point there will be mods adding Marvel lords, hopefully!

If you don't like the vanilla you can just downlpad a mod that takes half a day to kill one dude. As simple as that.

 

[Apocal]

If you don't like the vanilla you can just downlpad a mod that takes half a day to kill one dude. As simple as that.

Or just, like, use a weapon that worked decently against armor?

 

[mangalore]

From what I heard armor ia supposed to be ****. In the story lane Bannerlors happens before Warband, which means metallurgy and armor skills are trash. And it reflects in the in game armor. So it seems to me that this was intended so you don't rely too much on armor.

If metallurgy is meant to be inferior then this applies to arrowheads, spearpoints and swords the same way..

Maybe armor should transform a certain amount of damage to blunt. The main thing is not to get killed, not necessarily not getting injured.

 

[Solomani]

These videos pretty much demonstrates the entire problem:

Peasants, best units in the game... super cheap and powerful


Why would any village be afraid of any army?



Yea, 10 on one.. bound for a trained warrior to be taken down, but he should definitely be taking quite a few of the ten with him.


You paid a lot for that Seargant

The peasants are too good, able to attack and defend as well as any trained unit.

 

[haws3r]

The peasants are too good, able to attack and defend as well as any trained unit.

I have a post about how utterly weak top tier units are and how they get killed by jokers like peasants and other low tier trash all the time but many disagreed.
My opinion still stands: top tier units sux, especially melee, either because of armor is trash or their AI needs (serious) work

 

[Maximum997]

My opinion still stands: top tier units sux, especially melee, either because of armor is trash or their AI needs (serious) work

Infantry in this game serves only as arrow sponges.

 

[xdj1nn]

I have a post about how utterly weak top tier units are and how they get killed by jokers like peasants and other low tier trash all the time but many disagreed.
My opinion still stands: top tier units sux, especially melee, either because of armor is trash or their AI needs (serious) work

it's a combination of both. Elite troops should get a buff to their AI, garbage troops should get a slight nerf to their AI, armors should be useful. 99% of the time you are better off wearing starting pajamas and using a shield than you are spending gold on armors that will still get you one-shot by practically anything, even a peasant's spitting. The major problem in the game is armor soaking, it's non existent, and to top that off, they've made inertia dmg so strong, that anything can kill you with even the slightest speed modifier.
I've been testing armor mods, none of them can counter those effects. First of all the inertia dmg should get a significant nerf... I mean, couched lance dmg goes as high as 1k, considering all troops have around 100 hp, what the **** is the point? If 1k were to get soaked properly, we'd be doing 100-180 dmg on coached lance (supposedly to be a one-hit-kill), not 1k. Meanwhile 2 handers deal as high as 300 dmg, so on so forth.
Warband's low HP did a much better job at balancing, yet, their key there was dmg soaking working properly. As I've said time and time again, the best dmg soaking for warband is actually 1257ad's (mod), where if you own a sword and try to beat a knight on full plate, the only dmg you can do is through inertia/momentum, and even so it's low, or, you hit the soft spots on the armor.

 

[Woopzilla]

it's a combination of both. Elite troops should get a buff to their AI, garbage troops should get a slight nerf to their AI, armors should be useful. 99% of the time you are better off wearing starting pajamas and using a shield than you are spending gold on armors that will still get you one-shot by practically anything, even a peasant's spitting. The major problem in the game is armor soaking, it's non existent, and to top that off, they've made inertia dmg so strong, that anything can kill you with even the slightest speed modifier.

This is also why it seems that rocks hit like a truck. I was riding AWAY on a horse from a looter, and he still hit me for a relative impact velocity of 32m/s. If looters were born in modern times, they'd all be professional baseball pitchers.

 

[Maximum997]

The major problem in the game is armor soaking, it's non existent, and to top that off, they've made inertia dmg so strong, that anything can kill you with even the slightest speed modifier.

Yep. you can give a pesant romphalia with 170 damage and he will oneshot any elite uni in the game.

This is also why it seems that rocks hit like a truck.

Blunt damage ignores about 85-90% of armor. I got hit with wooden hammer in the chest. My chest armor was about 65.

And it was - 18 damage recived 8 damage absorbed.

 

[xdj1nn]

This is also why it seems that rocks hit like a truck. I was riding AWAY on a horse from a looter, and he still hit me for a relative impact velocity of 32m/s. If looters were born in modern times, they'd all be professional baseball pitchers.

Yep. you can give a pesant romphalia with 170 damage and he will oneshot any elite uni in the game.

read again, I've updated the post (I always forget to say something, so I edit a lot)

 

[Maximum997]

In WB base damage was very low.

For example the best 2hander deals 50 damage. In BL it is like 170
The best bow deals 25 damage. In BL it is 90
But there was a damage multiplier (power strike up to +80% and power draw up to 140%)
There was HP multiplier. From 50 health up to 100. In BL they doesnt exist for AI i guess. And for player it is what? +19?.

Thats why in BL progression feels like it doesnt exist. And elite units doesnt feel like elite units. I dont really care about unit tiers, becouse i can oneshot just everything in the game even at foot and without headshot.

In WB there was a huge difference between high tier warrior and low tier. Better equip was multiplied by better stats. In BL there is none of that, thats why 2 pesants can kill any eilte warrior like in that clip.

Only one real elite unit in this game is a Battanian fian champion.
For example how many pesants can kill a Swadian knight or Nord huskarl?

 

[xdj1nn]

In WB base damage was very low.

For example the best 2hander deals 50 damage. In BL it is like 170
The best bow deals 25 damage. In BL it is 90
But there was a damage multiplier (power strike up to +80% and power draw up to 140%)
There was HP multiplier. From 50 health up to 100. In BL they doesnt exist for AI i guess. And for player it is what? +19?.

Thats why in BL progression feels like it doesnt exist. And elite units doesnt feel like elite units. I dont really care about unit tiers, becouse i can oneshot just everything in the game even at foot and without headshot.

In WB there was a huge difference between high tier warrior and low tier. Better equip was multiplied by better stats. In BL there is none of that, thats why 2 pesants can kill any eilte warrior like in that clip.

Only one real elite unit in this game is a Battanian fian champion.
For example how many pesants can kill a Swadian knight or Nord huskarl?

you are quite clueless on your observation. IN warband HP worked differently, so obviously, and I MEAN OBVIOUSLY, the dmg is higher... The problem is not the total dmg, it's the armor soaking. You can verify this more appropriately by making math calculations to compare the proportional dmg, I'll not do that for you, I already know it to not be the issue, instead, the issue lies, again, with ARMOR SOAKING. The second issue lies with the amount of dmg bonus that momentum gives, it's too damn high.

Also, it seems that armor barely differentiates dmg type in BL, in thesis, Cut dmg is meant to be the most useless against armor, while Puncturing moderate and blunt pure raw dmg. In warband that worked, here it makes no ****ing difference. The best way to balance combat is to create perks that allow to counter-act (not entirely) the dmg soaking from armors (independently of the dmg type), while at level 0 or without perks, armor will basically make you immune to almost all dmg. IF they did that properly, the game would be pristine.

So, an ridiculous example is Falx, falx has the highest cut dmg in the game (I mean, there are other higher, but it's the most efficient speed vs dmg wise), then, you use said falx by running against an opponent running towards you, the falx hits like a truck, it makes no sense at all, it's like you and the opponent were running towards each other to a total 200kmph, ridiculous... Couched dmg, which should at most surpass 3 times the total amount of HP, actually goes as high as 1.1k 1.3k dmg, that's due to momentum bonus, and again, lack of armor soaking. Combine both, and the dmgs are completely nonsensical...

 

[froggyluv]

it's a combination of both. Elite troops should get a buff to their AI, garbage troops should get a slight nerf to their AI, armors should be useful. 99% of the time you are better off wearing starting pajamas and using a shield than you are spending gold on armors that will still get you one-shot by practically anything, even a peasant's spitting. The major problem in the game is armor soaking, it's non existent, and to top that off, they've made inertia dmg so strong, that anything can kill you with even the slightest speed modifier.
I've been testing armor mods, none of them can counter those effects. First of all the inertia dmg should get a significant nerf... I mean, couched lance dmg goes as high as 1k, considering all troops have around 100 hp, what the **** is the point? If 1k were to get soaked properly, we'd be doing 100-180 dmg on coached lance (supposedly to be a one-hit-kill), not 1k. Meanwhile 2 handers deal as high as 300 dmg, so on so forth.
Warband's low HP did a much better job at balancing, yet, their key there was dmg soaking working properly. As I've said time and time again, the best dmg soaking for warband is actually 1257ad's (mod), where if you own a sword and try to beat a knight on full plate, the only dmg you can do is through inertia/momentum, and even so it's low, or, you hit the soft spots on the armor.

This post sums it up nicely