Damage in this game is Ridiculous

[Skjuld]

Bannerlord utterly fails in terms of progression. I don't know what the devs were trying to do...

- Stats that do nothing except ease up a hardcap and modify xp.
- Perks that are nonsensical (lower wages to garrisons for 2H) or have such low effect that they might as well not exist (+1 .5 Damage... Yay !)
- A convoluted "learn-by doing" xp system that levels by obscure means and results in an horrible grind... With several skills that don't level at all.
- Skill progression that almost changes nothing. (Except for bows, maybe)
- Armor that mostly slows you down... While a lot of things one-shot you, even in the hands of low-level bandits.
- A Smithing system that relies more on random unlocks than on actual skill level. Unlock anything that does high damage and you can PL yourself and your companions, while getting absurd amounts of Gold. Even you lack 100 skill points, you gain xp and unlocks..
- High-end troops that don't feel that different from ordinary peasants.

Frankly, the whole game needs a rework. Having played thousands of hours of Warband and Viking Conquest, I feel really down. I'll probably go back to one of them soon and just look up what happens with this botched reboot.

 

[froggyluv]

- Perks that are nonsensical (lower wages to garrisons for 2H)

I too find this really strange -does TW have any justification for this at all? Does 2 handed prowess WOW the masses like a Warband duelist once did -to the effect of the garrison just resting better knowing their in well guarded hands?

 

[Skjuld]

A lot of perks don't make much sense anyways... I mean, +2 damage ? How nice, with a polearm that does 100+ damage, that's hardly noticeable. Conversely, you get +30% couched lance damage... Yay, you get from double overkill to 2,6 overkill !

 

[froggyluv]

Right i mean i get the whole damage needs calibrating -but i just see zero logic in the Two handed/Garrison Price area -and theres alot of zero-connect Perks like that. Was the Perks coder high or something?

 

[Hans 77]

Does 2 handed prowess WOW the masses like a Warband duelist once did -to the effect of the garrison just resting better knowing their in well guarded hands?

Made me laugh my ass off. Thank you.

It's so true too. Like why is this perk even a thing?

 

[Skjuld]

Probably because they already had too many perks to put into steward and leadership...

 

[froggyluv]

Id prefer they put in cooler combat perks like "Chamber Maid -Higher chance of landing a chamber" or something like that

Edit: Ok actually looking through the full progression line of perks i can see they are mostly combat related -just a few strange anomalies like the above

 

[Maximum997]

Conversely, you get +30% couched lance damage... Yay, you get from double overkill to 2,6 overkill !

May be they will add war elephants with 500+ HP

 

[Maximum997]

Bannerlord utterly fails in terms of progression.

Only one actual proggression is a weapon. Ony weapon matters in combat.

Thats all. Armor doesnt mean much, skills doesnt mean much.

I am sure that pesant with warrazors will cut empire legioners to small pieces.

 

[Hans 77]

Only one actual proggression is a weapon. Ony weapon matters in combat.

Thats all. Armor doesnt mean much, skills doesnt mean much.

I am sure that pesant with warrazors will cut empire legioners to small pieces.

And this is why Warband's progression worked so well. It was so balanced, so brilliant. Power strike and weapon proficiency had such a profound impact on how units performed in combat. Armor actually did its job and the usage of weapons was balanced along lines of weapon proficiency and power strike, so a low tier unit equipped with a strong weapon could make an impact in a fight -but they didn't instantly become a world-ender simply because their weapon was good. Likewise, top-tier units, no matter what weapon they wielded, were a threat, thanks to their PS and weapon proficiency stats -a system which served to symbolize the years of experience and training they would most likely have under their belts.

 

[Ciderglove]

I came to pretty much the conclusions being discussed in this thread about a month ago and stopped playing. It's sad to see that the devs have done nothing since then to fix it.

 

[Skjuld]

I came to pretty much the conclusions being discussed in this thread about a month ago and stopped playing. It's sad to see that the devs have done nothing since then to fix it.

I doubt they will, at that. They decided to create a whole new system with a lot of (mismatched) ideas, rather than tweak, revamp and extend what worked. In the process, they probably got emotionally involved with their new blueprint... But they've lost the original focus.
Bannerlord seems to be going in every direction at once, the mechanics don't match one with the other. There is probably also some tension between MP and SP views.

 

[Apocal]

Armor Does Something, the mod, works pretty well ay along heavily armored units feel heavily armored but some people (not me) complain it makes archers useless against anything with good armor.

 

[Maximum997]

Armor Does Something, the mod, works pretty well ay along heavily armored units feel heavily armored but some people (not me) complain it makes archers useless against anything with good armor.

It is probem of progression system. In WB high tier archers was good against armored units becouse better bows and power draw.

In BL difference between mid tier and high tier archers is 20-25% of damage at best.

 

[Wyzilla]

I'm a bit dubious about the javelins, though. That type of weapon was mostly phased out in medieval times. I think their range and power are largely overestimated in BL.
A light javelin will hardly penetrate a gambison (you see tests of that on youtube). A spear will, but you can't throw it more than a few meters away in an aimed throw.
Volleys of light javelin in an arc might be useful in a battle scenario against lightly armored troops.

Javelins are hilariously powerful and never fell out of use in Iberia or Ireland. Their only problem is limited range, but against gambeson a broadheaded javelin will cleave clean through it - they're more energetic than arrows or bolts after all. That said javelins ripping through hauberks or coats of plate as easily as they do currently is dubious. Personally I have modded bannerlord to be more realistic by just increasing the stats of all armor values by 20, commonly resulting in many units having armor values of 80 or even 100 for elites, which works nicely. Although it would be nice if the devs allowed us to modify the damage calculating algorithm directly, similar to MCM values of warband.

From what I heard armor ia supposed to be ****. In the story lane Bannerlors happens before Warband, which means metallurgy and armor skills are trash. And it reflects in the in game armor. So it seems to me that this was intended so you don't rely too much on armor.

Metallurgy has nothing to do with it, pure iron is still more than sufficient to stop most arrows or melee attacks barring the most potent of threats such as couched lances, high energy javelins, or two handed axes in a murder stroke. Most armor in Europe was pure iron up until the mid fourteenth century anyway - steel, especially quality steel, came much later. Nevermind that the bulletproof cuirasses of the 17th century were mostly just pure iron, and were bulletproof courtesy of being obscenely thick and the soft iron absorbing the impact energy of lead balls of the time.

 

[Maximum997]

Javelins are hilariously powerful

they cant be more powerful then simple spear strike with same wind up and mass. It is physic. So 40 spear damage vs 120 javeline damage is just a joke.

They do so many damage just for balance reasons.

 

[Wyzilla]

they cant be more powerful then simple spear strike with same wind up and mass. It is physic. So 40 spear damage vs 120 javeline damage is just a joke.

Uh, yes they can lol. A spear thrust is very low in power unless it is a cast blow, which in of itself is simply throwing the spear while keeping a lose grip. A javelin in effective range is a similar weighted object, only flying faster. Yes there is no mass of the human behind it, but the human isn't imparting all of their mass into the blow of a spear in the first place. Spear thrusts by humans are probably not breaching 100 joules unless you are very strong or using cast blows, whereas javelins are above that, more powerful than a high power bow in fact, and atlatls being even more potent (iirc coming in at around 300 joules or so).Javelins are far more powerful that people give them credit for, as there's a reason we've used them in our history to hunt megafauna.

 

[froggyluv]

Uh, yes they can lol. A spear thrust is very low in power unless it is a cast blow, which in of itself is simply throwing the spear while keeping a lose grip. A javelin in effective range is a similar weighted object, only flying faster. Yes there is no mass of the human behind it, but the human isn't imparting all of their mass into the blow of a spear in the first place. Spear thrusts by humans are probably not breaching 100 joules unless you are very strong or using cast blows, whereas javelins are above that, more powerful than a high power bow in fact, and atlatls being even more potent (iirc coming in at around 300 joules or so).Javelins are far more powerful that people give them credit for, as there's a reason we've used them in our history to hunt megafauna.

fantastic reply! Great maths

 

[Maximum997]

A javelin in effective range is a similar weighted object, only flying faster.

It cant move faster with similar weight. Becouse a=f\m. Same person has same force, so acceleration will be the same, so with the same wind up distance speed will be the same

Yes, when throwing a spear from safe distance you can make a huge wind up with your arm and back muscles.

But i dont see it in animations.

 

[Locklave]

Piercing weapons are the major problem. They bypass too much armor and weapons specifically like hunting bows that should be nearly useless vs the heaviest armor are deadly.

The weapons tier and damage type should decide how much armor can be ignored, not simply it's damage type. Get some use out of the tier system.