Competitive changes for future tourneys
- Thread starter OurGloriousLeader
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Beside the crap 1hit body protection nord cav is by far the strongest cav in the game, if you don't count awlpike cav.Ciiges said:
This sounds pretty good to be fair. Definitely would refresh competitive scene.
I would also like to see the Bliv's flag system and Khergits back in the game.
I would also like to see the Bliv's flag system and Khergits back in the game.
Guaccmoleboy
Khergs need more equipment choices and removal of horse archers which I don't think can be done server side
Azan had a nice change for horse archers where they couldn't turn the horse while aiming and shooting anymore which effectively removed their cheese factor. Not sure what is needed for that to be implemented though, and they have a host of other problems.
I think implementing Khergits is a dumb idea, the game was created for the purpose of a fun multiplayer with no competitive aspect. We've learnt that Khergits are simply a faction that's fun to use but you can't implement even with the attempt of making the faction balanced. Scrap the Khergit idea, focus on changing what we know works but needs balancing.
the point of fixing Khergits is not to bring people back to the game and I don't think anyone has said that. Azan's restriction on Khergits turning and other modifications to their stats could make them playable, although it's still possible these changes won't be enough. Khergits are the 6th faction in the game and making them playable should have been a priority much sooner than now.
as far as I know extensive modifications have not been made to Khergits in the past so arguing that it's impossible to do so is simply a lie.
as far as I know extensive modifications have not been made to Khergits in the past so arguing that it's impossible to do so is simply a lie.
The proposed changes are good, I see no issue with them. One thing though - maybe instead of completely removing javs for Nord inf, perhaps add a price to them, so that they're not mass produced on the Nord steam-train factory line from Round 1. I do think that without javs, they would be too weak cause inf for Nords are the only decent thing going for them; there cav can throw yes but with practically no shield - any decent archer just picks them off. And the archers are, well...not great.
EDIT: Bliv's idea sounds cool too.
EDIT: Bliv's idea sounds cool too.
Fietta said:
Literally nobody has ever tried to balance Khergit even casually to my knowledge so I don't know where you've "learnt" that. I agree it's a harder task though and likely would require a new mod. I was trying to stick to simple fixes.
Surkan said:
whats the point in you posting
@viktor the price change is another option although again that would require a mod. I don't think Nord would be too weak without javs, if you recall back in the glory days of Niflheim the mega jav drops were not common (maybe just sharing 1 or 2 javs) and Nords still dominated. My whole point is that they're extremely strong and then you had their rain of death on top of that making them imbalanced.
Ebdanian Admiral
By far the easiest solution would be to just remove the kergit archer riding skill and bump them up to the same powerdraw as sarranid archers. Give their infantry a few more points into shield and you have a playable competitive faction. The problem is they would essentially become a worse version of vaegirs with sabers instead of scimitars and slightly better cavalry.
Im much more in favor of Azans horse archer mod, but I still think their infantry need some stat changes for the faction to have any hope of ever being useful.
Im much more in favor of Azans horse archer mod, but I still think their infantry need some stat changes for the faction to have any hope of ever being useful.
make khergits playable atleast) 7 years without good balance for this faction xd
or try to make some tourney with them and check how they stand agains swadians alwlpike-man at arms. Maybe and swads dont need a fix
Imo "balance" mean that all factions can counter another, but it depends of map and even of flag spawn. For example : on river vilage, khergits vs nords. Obviously, khergits looks loke a 100% winner here, but if flag will spawn in village i think nords have a good chances. So this is a good chance to take points on this set and it will looks like 3-1 instead 3-0 . And on 2 set u shouldnt let nords take this points, so you will have the advantage in round on next map.
Its just need to test to understand what do we need for balance khergits.
or try to make some tourney with them and check how they stand agains swadians alwlpike-man at arms. Maybe and swads dont need a fix
Imo "balance" mean that all factions can counter another, but it depends of map and even of flag spawn. For example : on river vilage, khergits vs nords. Obviously, khergits looks loke a 100% winner here, but if flag will spawn in village i think nords have a good chances. So this is a good chance to take points on this set and it will looks like 3-1 instead 3-0 . And on 2 set u shouldnt let nords take this points, so you will have the advantage in round on next map.
Its just need to test to understand what do we need for balance khergits.
Khergits vs Sarranids, Rookie Team Competitions 2.
1. https://youtu.be/ButqGZLYPJc?t=1917;
2. https://youtu.be/fvmtqokqmbo?t=1678.
The server rules for horse archers: unable buy a horse, unable mount any horse (only black), horse archery is zero.
1. https://youtu.be/ButqGZLYPJc?t=1917;
2. https://youtu.be/fvmtqokqmbo?t=1678.
The server rules for horse archers: unable buy a horse, unable mount any horse (only black), horse archery is zero.
Khergits havent been used in scrims forever, they have been nerfed by the last patch. We never tried them with just normal horsearchers, so whats the point of arguing some weird changes to game mechanic without any basis. Therefore we must run a tournament with Khergits as they are now to find the basis of this discussion,if we ever intend to add them that is. And Khergits without horsearchers are not worth to implent, they loose to every faction on open and closed.
About Nords i´d suggest:
- free light lance
- javs cost 190
(only for cavs)
You can get the same loadout as now if you wish, without possibilty to drop javs. Also it allows for more customisation, because you could invest in shield,armour etc if you dont take the discounted javs. We would finally see throwing axes on a more regular basis
About Nords i´d suggest:
- free light lance
- javs cost 190
(only for cavs)
You can get the same loadout as now if you wish, without possibilty to drop javs. Also it allows for more customisation, because you could invest in shield,armour etc if you dont take the discounted javs. We would finally see throwing axes on a more regular basis
Too bad this wasn't brought up earlier, maybe we could've tried all of this in NFL.
Gibby Jr said:
You don't know a lot then do you? making extensive modifications to Khergits to make them balanced is so hard without having to create a new module.
OurGloriousLeader said:
Yes, there's been patches for Khergits, pretty sure Oliveran told me about how they've changed them and it's something to do with Captain Lust (stat nerfs, equipment changes) but still never worked. People (not directed at you OGL) should stop bringing up that we should try Khergits, there's obvious reasons as to why they're not used, there was an attempt for Khergits to be used in a tournament but people refused to include them for obvious reasons. How will horse archers help out the infantry in fights etc?, just seems like a bad idea that would completely ruin competitive play, don't include a casual faction.
Fietta said:
There have been changes indeed, but they are very irrelevant at this point since they didn't bring much we could have used in competitive games. I also don't think they would work as a faction in comp. Warband.
EDIT: I think the changes were introduced in one of the 1.115x patches? I could be wrong though.
