Beta e1.7.2 Troop & Equipment Changes

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Dejan

Community Manager
WBNWVCM&B
Greetings!

The following troop and equipment-related changes that weren't included in the patch post are also being pushed out with patch e1.7.2.

Battania​

  • Battanian Clan Warrior
    • Added: Strapped Leather Bracers (5 Arm).
    • Removed: Armwraps (3 Arm).
  • Battanian Wood Runner
    • Added: Highland Tartans (6 Body, 5 Leg, 3 Arm), Highland Long Tartans (7 Body, 3 Leg), Tartan Togas (4 Body, 9 Leg), Kilt over Tartan Trousers (4 Leg), Tied Leather Bracers (3 Arm) and Iron Round Shield (to all Woord Runners).
    • Removed: Villager Leather Tunic (10 Body, 4 Leg, 2 Arm), Buttoned Leather Bracers (4 Arm) and all head armours.
  • Battanian Veteran Falxman
    • Added: Kilt over Plated Leather (42 Body, 23 Leg, 3 Arm).
    • Removed: Scale Warlord Armor (37 Body, 18 Leg, 16 Arm).
  • Battanian Wildling
    • Added: Scaled Boots (26 Leg).
    • Removed: Fur Boots (6 Leg).
  • Battanian Fian
    • Added: Highland Scale Armor over Cloth (31 Body, 6 Leg, 3 Arm), Armored Bearskin (16 Body), Fringed Decorated Steel Cap With Cheek Guards (38 Head) and Ridged Decorated Steel Cap with Cheek Guards (41 Head).
    • Removed: Heavy Mail Vest (28 Body, 8 Leg, 2 Arm), Highland Reinforced Mail over Tartan (32 Body, 8 Leg, 4 Arm), Highland Reinforced Mail Body Armor (34 Body, 8 Leg, 4 Arm), Rough Bearskin (16 Body, 4 Arm) and Warlord Helmet With Feathers (46 Head).
  • Battanian Fian Champion
    • Added: Rough Bearskin (16 Body, 4 Arm).
    • Removed: Armored Bearskin (16 Body).
  • Battanian Nobles
    • Added to the civilian equipment: Simple Cape.

Sturgia​

  • Sturgian Nobles
    • Added to the combat equipment: Cavalry Lamellar Armor (46 Body, 16 Leg, 14 Arm) and Brigandine over Hauberk (49 Body, 25 Leg, 20 Arm).
  • Sturgian Nobles and Notables
    • Added to the civilian equipment: Light Tunic (2 Body, 1 Leg, 1 Arm), Fur Trimmed Tunic (6 Body, 3 Leg, 3 Arm), Fur Trimmed Short Tunic (6 Body, 1 Leg, 1 Arm) and Long Tunic (2 Body, 1 Leg, 1 Arm).
  • Sturgian Warrior
    • Added: Spangenhelm with Padded Cloth (18 Head).
    • Removed: Fur Cap (9 Head).
  • Sturgian Militia Veteran Spearman
    • Added: Leather Armor over Heavy Cloth (11 Body, 3 Leg, 3 Arm).
  • Sturgian Prison Guard
    • Added: Heavy Lamellar Vest (35 Body, 18 Leg, 2 Arm).
  • Sturgian Soldier
    • Added: Nasal Helmet with Leather (37 Head).
    • Removed: Mailed Nasal Helmet (49 Head).
  • Sturgian Spearman
    • Added: Mailed Nasal Helmet (49 Head).
    • Removed: Nasal Helmet with Leather (37 Head).
  • Varyag
    • Added: Nasalhelm over Leather (23 Head).
    • Removed: Heavy Cavalry Helmet (46 Head).
  • Sturgian Horse Raider
    • Added: Heavy Lamellar Vest (35 Body, 18 Leg, 2 Arm) and Decorated Steel Lamellar Shoulder Pieces (10 Arm).
    • Removed: Bronze Scale Vest over Gambeson (28 Body, 12 Leg, 6 Arm).
  • Sturgian Heroic Line Breaker
    • Added: Decorated Hauberk (32 Body, 15 Leg, 15 Arm) and Mail Shoulder Guards (11 Body).
    • Removed: Bronze Scale Vest over Gambeson (28 Body, 12 Leg, 6 Arm) and Decorated Steel Lamellar Shoulder Pieces (10 Arm).
  • Sturgian Hardened Brigand
    • Added: Heavy Lamellar Vest (28 Body, 2 Leg, 2 Arm).
    • Removed: Bronze Scale Vest (28 Body, 4 Leg, 2 Arm).
  • Sturgian Heavy Spearmen
    • Added: Long Warsword, Heavy Round Shield, Heavy Lamellar Over Hauberk (50 Body, 25 Leg, 15 Arm), Plate Reinforced Gloves (18 Arm) and Warlord Helmet over Mail (48 Head).
    • Removed: Fullered Narrow Warsword, Reinforced Large Round Shield, Decorated Hauberk (32 Body, 15 Leg, 15 Arm), Fur Rimmed Leather Gloves (8 Arm) and Plated Warlord Helmet (53 Head).
  • Sturgian Heavy Axeman
    • Added: Reinforced Large Round Shield, Plated Warlord Helmet (53 Head) and two sets of Raider Throwing Axes.
    • Removed: Heavy Round Shield, Nasal Helmet With Mail (39 Head), Lamellar Pauldrons (16 Body, 6 Arm) and Broad Blade Javelin.

Aserai​

  • Aserai Prison Guard
    • Added: Aserai Chain Mail (25 Body, 13 Leg, 13 Arm).
  • Aserai Veteran Infantry
    • Added: Bronze Scale Shoulder Guards (14 Body, 7 Arm).
    • Removed: Bronze Lamellar Shoulder Pieces (16 Body, 6 Arm).
  • Aserai Mameluke Palace Guard
    • Added: Brass Scale Pauldrons (2 Body, 7 Arm).
  • Aserai Mameluke Cavalry
    • Added: Mameluke Helmet with Mail (45 Head).
  • Aserai Mameluke Heavy Cavalry
    • Added: Steppe Recurve Bow.
    • Removed: Steppe War Bow and Woven Leather Shoulders (2 Body).
  • Aserai Archer
    • Added: Pointed Skullcap over Cloth Headwrap (30 Head).
    • Removed: Mameluke Helmet with Mail (45 Head).
  • Aserai Master Archer
    • Added: Pointed Skullcap over Gambeson (32 Head).
    • Removed: Closed Steel Cap (52 Head).
  • Aserai Youth
    • Added: Long Padded Robe (14 Body, 7 Leg, 2 Arm).
    • Removed: Silk Kaftan (6 Body, 3 Leg, 3 Arm).
  • Aserai Mameluke Regular
    • Added: Helmet with Open Turban (26 Head).
    • Removed: Helmet with Turban and Coif (20 Head).
  • Aserai Mameluke Axemen
    • Added: Helmet with Turban and Coif (20 Head).
    • Removed: Mameluke Helmet with Mail (45 Head).
  • Aserai Mameluke Guard
    • Added: Mameluke Helmet with Mail (45 Head) and Aserai Chain Mail (25 Body, 13 Leg, 13 Arm).
    • Removed: Closed Steel Cap (52 Head) and Robe over Mail Hauberk (25 Body, 12 Leg, 12 Arm).
  • Aserai Mameluke Palace Guard
    • Added: Southern Decorated Chain Mail (27 Body, 13 Leg, 13 Arm) and Mail Cavalier Boots (12 Leg).
    • Removed: Stitched Leather over Mail (36 Body, 14 Leg, 14 Arm) and Splint Boots (22 Leg).
  • Aserai Vanguard Faris
    • Added: Luxury Scale Armor (37 Body, 23 Leg, 13 Arm).
    • Removed: Stitched Leather over Mail (36 Body, 14 Leg, 14 Arm).
  • Aserai Light Archer
    • Added: Steel Cap (18 Head).
    • Removed: Helmet with Open Turban (26 Head).

Khuzait​

  • Khuzait Tribal Warrior
    • Added: Nomad Fur Cap (7 Head) and Studded Leather Waistcoat (8 Body, 3 Leg).
    • Removed: Fur Hoods (12 Head) and Luxury Thick Coat (6 Body, 3 Leg, 3 Arm).
  • Khuzait Caravan Guard
    • Added: Reinforced Suede Armor (16 Body, 5 Leg, 2 Arm).
    • Removed: Belted Leather Cuirass (19 Body, 4 Leg, 3 Arm).
  • Khuzait Noble’s Son
    • Added: Decorated Nomad Caps (6 Head).
    • Removed: Nomad Fur Cap (7 Head) and Thick Fur Hood (12 Head).
  • Khuzait Marksman
    • Added: Reinforced Studded Neckguard (17 Body).
    • Removed: Reinforced Leather Pauldrons (8 Body, 3 Arm).
  • Khuzait Khan's Guard
    • Added: Steppe War Bow.
    • Removed: Steppe Recurve Bow.
  • Khuzait Torguud
    • Now has 55 One Handed (was 40) ,45 Two Handed (was 40), 100 Polearm (was 110), 100 Bow (was 150), 100 Riding (was 110) and 25 Throwing (was 15).

Empire​

  • Imperial Bucellarii
    • Added: Plated Striped Gauntlets (22 Arm).
    • Removed: Guarded Padded Vambraces (9 Arm).
  • Imperial Veteran Infantryman
    • Added: Decorated Legionary Mail (30 Body, 18 Leg, 8 Arm) and Ornate Legionary Scale Mail (36 Body, 18 Leg, 8 Arm).
    • Removed: Infantryman Mail over Leather (31 Body, 6 Leg, 6 Arm).
  • Imperial Cataphract
    • Added: Cataphract Lamellar Armor (48 Body, 24 Leg, 14 Arm).
    • Removed: Lamellar with Scale Skirt (52 Body, 23 Leg, 16 Arm) and Legionary Padded Straps (9 Body, 4 Arm).
  • Imperial Nobles
    • Added to the combat equipment: Heavy Scale Armor over Mail Hauberk (57 Body, 20 Leg, 16 Arm).
  • Imperial Menavliaton
    • Added: Decorated Leather Harness with Padding (10 Body, 8 Arm).
    • Removed: Legionary Padded Straps (9 Body, 4 Arm).
  • Imperial Elite Menavliaton
    • Added: Heavy Nasalhelm over Leather (48 Head) and Decorated Leather Harness over Mail (16 Body, 10 Arm).
    • Removed: Spangenhelm over Mail (42 Head) and Heavy Lamellar Pauldrons (17 Body, 9 Arm).
  • Imperial Trained Infantryman
    • Added: Open Padded Coif (14 Head).
    • Removed: Heavy Nasalhelm over Laced Cloth (46 Head).
  • Palatine Guard
    • Now has 140 Bow (was 160) and 40 Riding (was 20).

Vlandia​

  • Vlandian Gallant
    • Added: Woven Leather Bracers (6 Arm).
    • Removed: Padded Mittens (9 Arm).
  • Vlandian Pikeman
    • Added: Rough Brigandine (38 Body, 19 Leg, 19 Arm).
    • Removed: Heavy Mail Hauberk (28 Body, 14 Leg, 14 Arm).
  • Vlandian Banner Knight
    • Added: Mail Chausses (22 Leg).
    • Removed: Mail Cavalier Boots (12 Leg).

Minor Faction​

  • Young Wolf
    • Added: Sleeveless Studded Fur Armor (11 Body, 5 Leg).
    • Removed: Wildling Armor (2 Body, 5 Leg, 1 Arm) and all hand armours.
  • Boar Veteran
    • Added: Segmented Cevelliere over Laced Coif (24 Head).
    • Removed: Cevelliere over Arming Coif (19 Head).

Bandits​

  • Looter
    • Added: Tattered Rags (3 Body, 1 Leg).
  • Mountain Bandit Boss (Bandit Hideout)
    • Added: Fortified Mercenary Armor (24 Body, 13 Leg, 12 Arm).
    • Removed: Banded Leather Armor (29 Body, 10 Leg, 8 Arm).
  • Brigand (Mountain Bandit)
    • Added: Patched Gambeson (14 Body, 7 Leg, 3 Arm).
    • Removed: Heavy Mail Shirt with Wide Belt (31 Body, 13 Leg, 10 Arm).
  • Legion of the Betrayed’ Hastati
    • Added: Boarskin Leather Coat (14 Body, 7 Leg, 4 Arm).
    • Removed: Various Imperial armors.
  • Freebooter (Forest Bandit)
    • Added: Rough Fur Armor (14 Body, 5 Leg, 3 Arm) and Padded Leather Overcoat (14 Body, 4 Leg, 3 Arm).
    • Removed: Heavy Mail Shirt with Wide Belt (31 Body, 13 Leg, 10 Arm).

Armor Changes​

  • Fur Trimmed Short Tunic now provides 6 Body armor (was 2).
  • Ornate Legionary Scale Mail now provides 18 Leg armor (was 15) and 8 Arm armor (was 6).
  • Spangenhelm with Padded Cloth now provides 18 Head armor (was 20).
  • Renamed Aserai Decorated Chain Mail to Southern Decorated Chain Mail.
  • Renamed Battanian Tartan to Highland Tartan.
  • Renamed Bronze Scale Shoulder Guards to Decorated Scale Shoulder Guards.
  • Mail Chausses and Strapped Mail Chausses are now part of Vlandian culture.

Other Changes​

  • Light Bolts now have +2 Pierce damage.
  • Bolts now have +4 Pierce damage.
  • Heavy Bolts now have +5 Piece damage.
 

hsngrms

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Thanks for the detailed info. I'll play e1.7.1 but I'm already excited for e1.7.2.

Apart from the excitement, I also wonder why you didn't add Palatine Guard another quiver when there is an empty slot.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC

Sturgia​

  • Sturgian Heavy Spearmen
    • Added: Long Warsword, Heavy Round Shield, Heavy Lamellar Over Hauberk (50 Body, 25 Leg, 15 Arm), Plate Reinforced Gloves (18 Arm) and Warlord Helmet over Mail (48 Head).
    • Removed: Fullered Narrow Warsword, Reinforced Large Round Shield, Decorated Hauberk (32 Body, 15 Leg, 15 Arm), Fur Rimmed Leather Gloves (8 Arm) and Plated Warlord Helmet (53 Head).
  • Sturgian Heavy Axeman
    • Added: Reinforced Large Round Shield, Plated Warlord Helmet (53 Head) and two sets of Raider Throwing Axes.
    • Removed: Heavy Round Shield, Nasal Helmet With Mail (39 Head), Lamellar Pauldrons (16 Body, 6 Arm) and Broad Blade Javelin.
Hey i found some typos or perhaps bugs in the game regarding these units.

For the heavy spearman neither of their two sets have the "Warlord Helmet over Mail"
Z32Fi.jpg
2mXoA.jpg

For the heavy axemen their one set does not have a "Plated Warlord Helmet"
ZwITC.jpg

Also gotta say you guys butchered heavy axemen. Please give them a second set that gives back the Lamellar Pauldrons (just like the spearmen have 2 sets, 1 with armor and 1 without), they are about to get relegated to not being used since they no longer have javelins and Heavy Spearmen got a huge armor buff.
giphy-downsized-large.gif
 

cronochaos

Recruit
Is there any chance the Palantine Guard can get their second arrow stack? It was removed then they were strong but now they are too underpowered without it
 

Dejan

Community Manager
WBNWVCM&B
Thanks for the detailed info. I'll play e1.7.1 but I'm already excited for e1.7.2.

Apart from the excitement, I also wonder why you didn't add Palatine Guard another quiver when there is an empty slot.
Is there any chance the Palantine Guard can get their second arrow stack? It was removed then they were strong but now they are too underpowered without it
This was done intentionally in a balancing effort and forces the player to use Palatine Guards strategically.
Also gotta say you guys butchered heavy axemen. Please give them a second set that gives back the Lamellar Pauldrons (just like the spearmen have 2 sets, 1 with armor and 1 without), they are about to get relegated to not being used since they no longer have javelins and Heavy Spearmen got a huge armor buff.
We want heavy axemen to be more offensive-inclined troops while heavy spearmen should work better in a defensive formation. Heavy axemen have good harassing weapons and as such work better against shield walls.
For the heavy spearman neither of their two sets have the "Warlord Helmet over Mail"
For the heavy axemen their one set does not have a "Plated Warlord Helmet"
Good observations, these changes were excluded after some additional testing so they didn't make it into the patch. Will remove them from the patch notes. Thanks.
@Dejan Is it possible in SP for troops to spawn their equipment "set" instead of spawning random pieces from the "sets"?
As you can imagine, this was done in order to bring more variety to how units look on the battlefield, making them look less uniform. We don't add many different items to high-tier troops though since we want them to look more organized. This is intended and we currently have no plans on changing that.
 

nereid

Sergeant
As you can imagine, this was done in order to bring more variety to how units look on the battlefield, making them look less uniform. We don't add many different items to high-tier troops though since we want them to look more organized. This is intended and we currently have no plans on changing that.
Does this mean that you want a higher variety for the lower tier troops and a lot less variety for high tier troops? Due to the changes some high tier troops can only spawn with one outfit.
 

Dejan

Community Manager
WBNWVCM&B
Does this mean that you want a higher variety for the lower tier troops and a lot less variety for high tier troops? Due to the changes some high tier troops can only spawn with one outfit.
We have more visual variety on some low-tier troops and a more uniform-like approach for organized and well-trained troops (which are often higher tier). Note that this is just the general approach and that you can find discrepancies from it where we deemed it sensible.
 

nereid

Sergeant
We have more visual variety on some low-tier troops and a more uniform-like approach for organized and well-trained troops (which are often higher tier). Note that this is just the general approach and that you can find discrepancies from it where we deemed it sensible.
Thanks for the information. By the way you missed to rename one of the Aserai Chain Mail armors :xf-wink:

Also is there a plan to switch some further armors? For example some of the Fari tiers still has a lot of Sturgian armors, which IMHO looks a little bit weird. I absolutely love that you equipped the troops with some of the newer armors further creating a better look for the different cultures.
 

nereid

Sergeant
Hmm, I don't think so? Maybe you can post a screenshot or share the specific troop?
The Aserai Veteran Faris: Sturgian shoulders, Sturgian armor (or at least a copy that looks a lot like the Sturgian variants), and Battanian gloves

eYfNSD7.png
 

Dejan

Community Manager
WBNWVCM&B
The Aserai Veteran Faris: Sturgian shoulders, Sturgian armor (or at least a copy that looks a lot like the Sturgian variants), and Battanian gloves

eYfNSD7.png
Aha okay. To answer your original question, yes we continuously review and update the equipment of troops as new armour pieces are created. For the specific one you mention above, we use the same body armour with different colour variations in different cultures, we might adjust it later on if new armour pieces are created.
 

nereid

Sergeant
Aha okay. To answer your original question, yes we continuously review and update the equipment of troops as new armour pieces are created. For the specific one you mention above, we use the same body armour with different colour variations in different cultures, we might adjust it later on if new armour pieces are created.
Great to hear that. My beef with this armor variant is simply that it just looks too much like the Sturgian variants. I really love the cultural differences between the troops.
 

anoddhermit

Sergeant
This was done intentionally in a balancing effort and forces the player to use Palatine Guards strategically.

We want heavy axemen to be more offensive-inclined troops while heavy spearmen should work better in a defensive formation. Heavy axemen have good harassing weapons and as such work better against shield walls.

This sounds like "in concept" rather than "in practice", hate to say.

You will not break the shields of even lower tier infantry even if they let you sit there throwing all 6 axes. And you will get few if any kills. And even in the melee afterward, few if any shields will be broken, as infantry die far too fast for their shield health being worn down by throwing weapons to be a significant factor in their success. Infantry vs. infantry is mostly decided by armor and weapon.

Throwing Axes and One Handed Axes currently aren't actually helping a melee unit or offering a real strategic difference over other options in my experience - shield health is too high, throwing axes are just worse than javelins, and the axe head being the point of damage results in more failed/low damage swings. I will take a mace/sword and javelins over an axe and throwing weapons(IE, a Legionary) in all circumstances. Legionaries wreck Heavy Axemen now.

If axes could hook and pull shields away from units and had more armor penetration, or just had higher damage than swords to mimic it, it'd be a different story maybe, or if throwing axes had a huge bonus against shields perhaps.

I think a T5 archer with only 24 arrows isn't going to be used strategically either, it's mostly just not going to get used - except perhaps as a garrison unit where admittedly it's a very strong choice, but that doesn't seem like what T5 units should be relegated to. Maybe if they had one 32 arrow quiver instead...
 

guiskj

Squire
This sounds like "in concept" rather than "in practice", hate to say.

You will not break the shields of even lower tier infantry even if they let you sit there throwing all 6 axes. And you will get few if any kills. And even in the melee afterward, few if any shields will be broken, as infantry die far too fast for their shield health being worn down by throwing weapons to be a significant factor in their success. Infantry vs. infantry is mostly decided by armor and weapon.

Throwing Axes and One Handed Axes currently aren't actually helping a melee unit or offering a real strategic difference over other options in my experience - shield health is too high, throwing axes are just worse than javelins, and the axe head being the point of damage results in more failed/low damage swings. I will take a mace/sword and javelins over an axe and throwing weapons(IE, a Legionary) in all circumstances. Legionaries wreck Heavy Axemen now.

If axes could hook and pull shields away from units and had more armor penetration, or just had higher damage than swords to mimic it, it'd be a different story maybe, or if throwing axes had a huge bonus against shields perhaps.

I think a T5 archer with only 24 arrows isn't going to be used strategically either, it's mostly just not going to get used - except perhaps as a garrison unit where admittedly it's a very strong choice, but that doesn't seem like what T5 units should be relegated to. Maybe if they had one 32 arrow quiver instead...
+1000. Concept != Reality.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
We want heavy axemen to be more offensive-inclined troops while heavy spearmen should work better in a defensive formation. Heavy axemen have good harassing weapons and as such work better against shield walls.
I have to agree with anoddhermit above, while the concept of this is fine, it doesnt play out that way at all. If you want it to then yall need to add a multiplier to the dmg throwing axes do to shield. I would definitely prefer you do that and keep the throwing axes, as they are axemen.

Also lets be real spearmen are better for defense because of their spears not their armor. I just dont see how nerfing axemen armor makes them more offensive inclined and make spearmen work better in defensive formations. These goals are achieved through their weapons, which you've done with the switch to throwing axes. I think its fine if axemen have a second set of nerf'd armor like they had did before this.
 

anoddhermit

Sergeant
I have to agree with anoddhermit above, while the concept of this is fine, it doesnt play out that way at all. If you want it to then yall need to add a multiplier to the dmg throwing axes do to shield. I would definitely prefer you do that and keep the throwing axes, as they are axemen.

Also lets be real spearmen are better for defense because of their spears not their armor. I just dont see how nerfing axemen armor makes them more offensive inclined and make spearmen work better in defensive formations. These goals are achieved through their weapons, which you've done with the switch to throwing axes. I think its fine if axemen have a second set of nerf'd armor like they had did before this.

I think the idea is that lower armor weight helps with offense. Mobility can help with either defense or offense, but of course durability only matters if you're defending. A strong alpha strike from offensive units can mean they don't need to be durable since the enemies around them are dead.

But I think with damage/armor/health balance as is, extra damage is less valuable than extra durability for infantry specifically who are the least mobile units and have to not die from projectiles and cav interceptions in the process of reaching their target - and with fewer hits to kill every bit of defense that lets you survive an extra hit is more valuable than overkill amounts of damage per swing, which often don't change the number of hits to kill and so doesn't "pay for" the squishiness of lighter armor.

So in order to make up for lower armor infantry have to really pack an extra punch in some other way. Being more mobile and getting the first hit in is still good in terms of the hits-to-kill dynamic and reduces time to reach targets thus reducing time you're potentially being shot at, but for that reach also plays a big role - see the Falxmen which fulfill their "in concept" role "in practice" and are thus a fun unit to use that can be very effective with micromanagement(plus reach helps vs. cav) - and the heavy axeman doesn't have reach so they're often getting hit first.

For sieges, with cav/HA not mounted, and with shields being a more important obstacle in general, certainly axemen could shine, but yeah... they need to actually be good against shield walls for that, and they better be really good as an anti-shield wall unit if they're going to be squishier in general which makes them worse for almost everything else.

Also... any nerf to Sturgia right now is kinda like... wut?
 

Ask

Sergeant
Hey @Dejan any news on changes about hired mercenaries? Like it was discussed in the another thread, all these mercenaries are underperforming quite drastically and mostly because of their equipment.

Any possibilities that they'll also undergo equipment changes considering other units are?
 

xGreedo

Regular
This was done intentionally in a balancing effort and forces the player to use Palatine Guards strategically.
Yes that used to be the case when the Palatine Guards had 160 bow skill making them the best archers in the game (not counting Fians) now they are the same as every other archer no point in using them now.
 
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