Beta Branch Patch Notes e1.2.0

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Army building should be a priority in an army building game.

The devs seem to have put that aspect of the game at the bottom of the list.
We already had a problem with safely storing troop in garrisons to train new troop due to the food problem in towns, now we have no way of efficiently training troops with the auto-resolve nerf. Which by the way was the only real way to lvl the Tactics skill.

This has dumbed down the core army building aspect to simply going around and gathering recruits and peasants rather than putting the time to build an efficient and tactical army.
 
Army building should be a priority in an army building game.

The devs seem to have put that aspect of the game at the bottom of the list.
We already had a problem with safely storing troop in garrisons to train new troop due to the food problem in towns, now we have no way of efficiently training troops with the auto-resolve nerf. Which by the way was the only real way to lvl the Tactics skill.

This has dumbed down the core army building aspect to simply going around and gathering recruits and peasants rather than putting the time to build an efficient and tactical army.
Do garrisons actually level up soldiers? I've left recruits in fully upgraded garrisons for months and months and seen no change.
 
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Greens hanging around (waiting for reinforcements) on the far side of the gatehouse door, when they could be hunting down the pinks and helping their people still scaling the ladders.
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Just hanging around by the door when they could be helping their green allies take that wall.
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Still hanging around waiting for reinforcements, despite dozens of troops being in a good position to go kill the pink defenders.
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In the last shot you see that the vast majority of the army had reached the far side (or rather, all the other green AIs that were not near the doors had died, so it amounts to the same thing - "enough men are on the far side of the door") of the door so they now switch to an "extermination" sub-routine and hunt down the defenders in a giant mob.
I've experienced the same thing on this map. Attacker AI has a priority to open the gates, but i think its not possible on this map (bug) as i have tried to do it myself and still could not find an interaction point with the door while AI would just stand and wait.
 

This patch has completely destroyed the economy and there is no way to balance this out.
Why would prosperity cause a food penalty when prosperity decreases due to a lack of food? This is insane.

Edit: Siege engines won´t target enemy defense engines on the world map. You cannot beat them because they are not being targeted.
Lords escape captivity in less than a week and there is no notification this is happening. I´ve been fighting thrash mobs of 400 aserai recruits brought by 20 different lords for days now. Siege AI doesn´t acknowledge siege towers and rush non existant scales in some Aserai maps.
 
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Yup def noticed the dumbing down of AI. Ranged units now seem unable to hit cav units at all, and cavs just charge straight into infantry instead of skirmishing with enemy cavs first. We're back to Warband era AI, but if we wanted that we could of just played warband instead of paying $50 for Bannerlord.

That said cudos to Tworld devs for working under mounting (no pun intended) pressure to pump out daily updates. All the updates up to 1.1 have been amazing and each update brought new quality of life improvement. Bannerlord is well worth a buy
The dumbed down AI for the sake of badly built computers needs to be rolled back. M.2 hard drives and motherboards are a dime a dozen now. **** this degrading of quality. Its a truly bad decision and isnt in the patch notes... wtf
 
I don't understand why the devs are so focused on nerfing every possible income stream in a single player sandbox when there are much greater glaring issues. Why is nerfing everything in sight a priority? You won't be able to beta test the end game material appropriately if you're forcing a grind to get there. I personally am not playing until a mod fixes all the cock ups in this patch and I know several whom are doing the same.
Yea, I cannot play a game where every single fight, the enemy sacrifices their cavalry in the dumbest way possible... this isnt fun anymore.
 
Army building should be a priority in an army building game.

The devs seem to have put that aspect of the game at the bottom of the list.
We already had a problem with safely storing troop in garrisons to train new troop due to the food problem in towns, now we have no way of efficiently training troops with the auto-resolve nerf. Which by the way was the only real way to lvl the Tactics skill.

This has dumbed down the core army building aspect to simply going around and gathering recruits and peasants rather than putting the time to build an efficient and tactical army.

You get Tactics from all battles dude.

Tactics is a dumb skill anyway and should be reworked entirely or scrapped.
 
It seems there's no point getting caravans anymore, they're just a huge drain on your economy - ruining caravans ruins the town's economies, therefor also making trading irrelevant. If you can't trade, you can't get enough money for caravans, and if caravans are useless, all you got left is killing looters.

To top it off, even though I win literally every tournament I play, it's even hard to sell the helmets I get because it takes 1/3rd of the town's money, if they have any at all, giving me no economical boost. It's really only good for the renown bonus, and nothing else. So I completely ignore all tournaments.

I do however have better performance and much less crashes, which I like.

And - like everyone else - #BringBackTheBetterAI

+1 To everything. Spent 7 days in a row playing SP for many hours per day and here are some of my thoughts.

Just played 5 hours in a new game on this patch and inmediatly regret the decision, reverting to the previous version. I know TW has good intentions on the patches but this just felt like a downgrade in most aspects out of performance, I don't really enjoy the slow-pace and lack of flexibility both in 'builds/build ups' and gameplay.

Disclaimer: I know this is Early Access, I've been supportive since Alpha, and I'm writing once again with the sake of help Taleworlds improve the game, nothing is written with malicious intention, only constructive criticism to give some insight on how to improve the game in my eyes trying to hold an impartial opinion that favours all kind of players.

My main concerns:

-Cities don't have money to sell your goods, sometimes even 0, does not make any sense, it was already hard finding a place to sell your goods after exploiting your trade routes. I don't really enjoy having to travel the full map on circles to sell 5 horses at once for 2x profit, just to level up trade 1-2 points. Before massive sell outs were too OP and I agree that towns never ran out of money, but perhaps having them on [5k to 15k gold interval] would be better? It would prevent massive sell outs.

-Caravans got too nerfed(or nerfed in the wrong way) & lack perks to improve their stability and protection. Read my thoughts about this here

-Skills levelling up too slow, Troops upgrading way too slow. Learn Rate really low - Before the patch I would rush Trade 125, Charm 50, and invest points inmediatly on Two handed(5) and a few on riding, bow and 3-4+ on Steward and Leadership as it would boost my renown, per battle, per caravan and overall speed up a lot the game and the way I can level up my character, as other methods seemed really slow, this seemed like the only 'efficient' build.
The amount of time it takes right now to level up any of those skills is absurdly increased, very high, trade has been thrown to the ground, extremely slow, and specially combat ones and those which are hard to access to like Leadership & Tactics remain being really slow-paced to level up.
We need higher experience for ourselves and troops affecting combat skills and upgrades(or XP boosts more accesible). Alternative methods to level up skills like Leadership, it's not compatible to build up caravans and rushing trade on current conditions while you enter wars to form armies('High morale' is not boosting my leadership at all).

JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THEY WANT TO 'ENABLE DEATHS' IN THE FUTURE, CURRENT LEARN RATES ARE LAUGHABLE, JUST TRY TO GET TWO HANDED WITH 5-6 ON VIGOR AND 5 FOCUS POINTS TO REACH THE +40% XP BOOST TO NEARBY TROOPS AFTER KILLING ENEMIES AND LET ME KNOW HOW MANY HOURS/EFFORT IT TOOK. <- Summed up to this, remark your progress in other skills or economy, it's 100% destroyed, besides this, consider that in the future, you'll be able to 'die' in battle.

-Simulated battles against looters/low tier bandits now kill your troops -> You nerfed economy drasticly, but summed up to this, now we get sometimes even level 16 or 21 troops slayed by a bunch of outnumbered bandits. Not good, please, if the odds are so favourable and they're 'low tier', allow us to just get knocks, reduce the quantity of gold/renown/influence earned, but keep XP intact for our troop, no deaths and ALSO boost Combat skills for our player.

After spending 2 hours just killing bandits just to get 4-5 troops to level 21(Culture Vlandia for the +20% XP boost btw), it just hurt me to lose every fight against looters a few level 16 units and tons of level 11s. Please revert this, it's just extremely frustrating given the economy, almost giving us no choice, either progress super slow on economy, or lose half of your troops against looters to get 75 on riding and 70 in two handed in 2 hours of manual fights.
We've no way to build up armies quickly(I suggest allowing you to invest gold in massive recruitment or massive companies of mercenaries for mercenaries aswell).

-Perks need to be balanced out: Besides some perks not working as intended or not working at all, the plan out of some of the branch perks is significantly worse than others. With this, I mean that for example there's no point in going for a 1 handed or polearm investment, just compare all their perks to the Two handed ones, just the '+40% XP when killing with 2 handed one' already outmatches all of the 1 handed and polearm ones combined.
I wanna see balance in the perks, hopefully boosting your in game approach, allowing you to have possibilities to go for 1 style or another, or even combine many. Perhaps for Polearms as an example, you could have some perks that go like: 'If you have x polearm users, your party gets 20% more renown in battles or +10% influence in battles', 'Every polearm user in your party gets 5% more XP' or 'Polearm users are 10% Cheaper to recruit and upgrade'. Just stuff like that or Combat bonus ones 'All 1 handed users in your party get +5% Combat speed bonus or damage or whatever'. You get the idea, and this applies to all the perks, not only Combat ones(besides Bows being better than crossbow and throwing weapons). I would like to see Perks from Tactics, Smithy, Roguery, and some others slightly boosted with interesting options, that allows me to consider them alongside many other effective options, in the end, providing many gameplay approaches, combinations and opportunities currently neglected due slow-pace or ineffective/unviable builds.

-Combat AI, glitch, difficulty and pathfinding: Taleworlds is well-aware of these issues, just got confirmed this morning, please, fix them asap. the AI glitch and basic block-attack AI behaviour since Beta Branch came out are high priority compared to other combat AI issues(Massive pile ups, running to walls on sieges, clips through eachother, etc). All of these need work.

-Gameplay is too Restrictive, Lost the 'Freedom' feeling & Character customization, specially, if you wanna progress through the game:

All the reasons combined above, end up providing a static experience through the game. The build up is extremely slow, specially through early game, you are not given effective alternatives and levelling up specially combat and certain skills is extremely slow or requires unviable patterns that extremely affect negatively your other -must attend- part of the games such as economy, diplomacy or army build-up. Considering the game aims to enable death and share some dinamical experience, we need to have quicker methods for certain stuff.

I agree that caravans and trade as an example were too strong, but the nerf has been way too drastic, specially when giving 0 random gold or extremely low to some cities. Adding counterparts to caravans such as lower party speeds + Party size base 30 + max 20 via perks(5 each time or investing money for them) are more than decent alternatives. Many times AI didn't attack caravans not because of how strong the Caravan was, but because their speed was unmatched(Perhaps just add some Caravan map speed negative modifier?).

Overall we need quicker growth, that can be boosted up by many perk possibilities that give players lot to think about to impulse their play-style. More variety with the actions that we can do with gold, followed by effective counterparts and consequences to that quick growth, and specially money(We need to be able to get better units in a quicker way, massive recruitment or massive packs of mercenaries), perhaps if some army is attacking us, demand massive money via barter(not player's choice).
Wars, Morale, and Massified Economies in the end need to have a larger impact for the player as commented.

Hopefully this is not seen as some rage post, but just some suggestions to improve the experience. Thanks for reading
 
+1 To everything. Spent 7 days in a row playing SP for many hours per day and here are some of my thoughts.

Just played 5 hours in a new game on this patch and inmediatly regret the decision, reverting to the previous version. I know TW has good intentions on the patches but this just felt like a downgrade in most aspects out of performance, I don't really enjoy the slow-pace and lack of flexibility both in 'builds/build ups' and gameplay.

Disclaimer: I know this is Early Access, I've been supportive since Alpha, and I'm writing once again with the sake of help Taleworlds improve the game, nothing is written with malicious intention, only constructive criticism to give some insight on how to improve the game in my eyes trying to hold an impartial opinion that favours all kind of players.


Hey Charlini, thanks for the feedback, we need more people giving feedback. My 2 cents for giving feedback though, please try dot points or less sentences. It's hard to read a giant block of essay and it takes more time for TW to decipher your main points.
 
Hey Charlini, thanks for the feedback, we need more people giving feedback. My 2 cents for giving feedback though, please try dot points or less sentences. It's hard to read a giant block of essay and it takes more time for TW to decipher your main points.

Yeah definetly, thanks! My bad :grin:
 
+1 To everything. Spent 7 days in a row playing SP for many hours per day and here are some of my thoughts.

Just played 5 hours in a new game on this patch and inmediatly regret the decision, reverting to the previous version. I know TW has good intentions on the patches but this just felt like a downgrade in most aspects out of performance, I don't really enjoy the slow-pace and lack of flexibility both in 'builds/build ups' and gameplay.

TBF the biggest one here is the perks and the absolute molasses-pace for both leveling skills and troops. Even just for testing, this should be a natural level higher than intended so people can test out the perks in the first place and start isolating the non-functional ones or the poorly performing ones. Second to that is troops dying and looters not even being safe. Auto-resolve behaving worse than warbands now. If you don't want us leveling by killing thousands of looters, give us a viable way to level troops besides ranged units and ranged cavalry safely. Although I'd rather the focus being on fixing perks right now and implementing features for testing and development reasons, I did have a bit of feedback here on the current state of things:

A few minor solution proposals for current unit superiority/balance issues
 
If perks like "one step ahead" will work then this skill will be really good one.

It shouldn't be a perk at all. What kind of commander just stumbles into the enemy? Most armies moved around each other for days or weeks before committing battle.

I honestly think passive XP is just not implemented, the leadership perks that are supposed to level troops passively don't work either.

Untrue. They work and they're pretty OP. I'm getting a handfuls of level-ups on my Tier 1-2-3 units every day.
 
It shouldn't be a perk at all. What kind of commander just stumbles into the enemy? Most armies moved around each other for days or weeks before committing battle.

Basicaly maneuvering army into a position where it could choose the field to fight and gain advantage of being prepared earlier than enemy requires tactical skill. That's why i don't mind it being a perk that is available on certain lvl. But what i don't like is that this perk doesn't work right now.
 
Basicaly maneuvering army into a position where it could choose the field to fight and gain advantage of being prepared earlier than enemy requires tactical skill. That's why i don't mind it being a perk that is available on certain lvl. But what i don't like is that this perk doesn't work right now.

And somehow everyone else is not able to do it at all unless they dump focus into Tactics? Either it becomes worthless or mandatory. The whole concept of the Tactics tree is flawed and overlaps too heavily with Leadership and Steward. It's way too heavily geared toward autoresolve results which disincentives playing the actual game. Also, it's absolutely mandatory for companions leading parties as it is now. The whole thing needs to be rebuilt and rethought from the ground up or straight axed and replaced with something else entirely.
 
Speaking of performance. First of all, it's really great to see so much work being done in this field, You're doing really well! I need to do some more in-depth profiling myself and share more valuable observations, but, as far as I can tell looking on RAM usage, there are still issues. Before first bigger battle - 6500 MB total RAM usage. After big battle (1000 vs 500), it's over 8000 MB and it's not going down to previous level. After another 20 minutes of playing (including siege) it hits over 10000 MB and after siege it goes down to ~9300. I know TaleWorlds is working really hard on it and they already improved entering and exiting scenes memory usage and leaks and it's really getting better, but maybe there are some things not being garbage collected or some timers or ongoing routines not flushed well. Just reporting my initial observations and I'll profile it more later.

Thanks for the hard work!
 
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