Been playing for a while and need some advice

[el_brio]

I have been playing Floris for a while and am currently around level 18.  I am working as a merc for the Vaegirs.  My army size is about 100 including 8 or 9 companions.  My units are mostly Tier 6, with a couple of 7's and 5's.  Myself and all of my companions are kitted out with pretty good gear.  I have taken a couple of castles and can easily whip other lords with 200+ armies without taking very heavy losses.  I have a few businesses (dye works) and about 50K in cash.

Basically, I'd like to take a weak castle in a strategic area and start my own faction but I don't know if I am at that point yet.  Can anyone recommend a good course of action?  My only problem is that I haven't been working on making friends too much and have made most of my money by looting enemy faction villages.

My other question was re: siege warfare.  When I took the castles as a merc,  I had to push a big siege engine up to the wall myself while the archers picked off some of my guys.  No one helped me push the damn thing and no one stood behind it so as not to get feathered with arrows.  Is there something I am missing here?  Should I have the whole army hold out of arrow range and push the tower up the the walls myself?


last question.... will tier 6 mercs ever level up to 7?

 

[krnja21]

Don't rush being a king yet, it's better if you and your companions rank up a bit and get some serious dosh, 50k is smalltime to be honest.
I started my first kingdom at around level 30 with about 600k, give or take and dyeworks in like 5 or 6 towns (all the Vaegir ones and a few Nord ones i think). What's more important then that is relations with other lords and your Right To Rule score. You should aim at getting at least 15 - 20 lords who are considered your friends (relation more than 25 i think). Also if you dont plan on being in war with every other faction try to get your Right To Rule to at least 60. It's a pain since you get only 3 points every time your current faction makes peace, but it makes your life much easier, since you can just form your own kingdom without other Kings declaring war on you from the start.

What i do is i try to get a few castles and towns who are next to each other so when i declare independence i have a tight grip on my lands. I went with Rivacheg Wercheg and the castles between them, all the way down to the river that separates Slezh and Curaw from the northern part of Vaegir land. Next is Khudan and then Curaw, along with the castles in between. 
I tend to start from the edge of the map so no one can creep up on me from behind.

The siege engine should work on its own, even when you set your men to hold position some will still move the engine, its very slow though so you may think you're only the one pushing it...

Also think about increasing difficulty, it makes the game much more enjoyable

Hope i helped 

Oh dont know witch merks you have in mind, Sigmunds freelancer mercs can only get to tier 6

 

[Wilm0chimp]

Im not sure, but if you tell your men to hold position, I think they will push the siege engine for a bit but once it gets too far, they will want to move back to where you told everyone to wait. If you dont give your men any orders, most of them should stay at the back whilst a few move up to push the engine (3 either side) and they should replace each other as they get shot dead by archers.

Id recommend getting more money, and a higher honor rating. Honor makes honorable lords like you automatically (you dont need to grind quests for each lord), and those are the types you want joining your kingdom. You want to buy land in cities near to where you will start your empire. Whichever faction you take land from WILL attack you over and over to get it back, even if you thrash them and they sue for peace. They will rebuild, retrain, and come at you again. You will need hundreds of thousands of denars to pay for peace treaties to end wars quickly (sometimes you will be at war, and two other factions decide to dogpile in on you as well), and the only way to get that kind of money is from owning hundreds of acres of land.

Work on getting recognition as king from every faction leader, not doing so means you cannot form trade agreements or defensive pacts with them. Strong factions never seem to accept you even if you have 99+ RTR, however they will IF you are at war with a faction they are also at war with. Ive delcared war just to get that recognition, and made peace straight after.

Dont accept any random nobles that decide to defect to your cause. The majority will be bad personality types (quarrelsome, debauched etc) that have loyalty only to themselves and get on with noone. I periodically check what available lords want to join me, accept them, get my chancellor to explain their personality type, and then reload and pick only the martial type lords. They are decent and proactive in fights but are honorable.

Your kingdom needs time for its lords to get to know each other by holding feasts, at the start most lords wont know each other and wont be friends, so they wont help out in campaigns. You want peace as much as possible to allow lords to hold feasts and improve kingdom unity, picking honorable lords helps here loads.

 

[Astasia]

Some things scale pretty well as you level up, others don't. The idea to wait until you are rich and have really good gear and troops sounds great on paper, but then you will also probably be rather high in level and have to deal with the AI having large armies and good troops as well. I've actually found it easier to start a kingdom really early on when you are lower level, because you can rather easily get a few hundred weak troops in garrisons straight away and that is enough at that point to deter any AIs from trying to take stuff back from you, while at the same time the troops are cheap enough to be paid for by the castle/town income alone. Eventually everyone will declare war on you regardless of your right to rule, relationships, or strength (just like they constantly declare war on each other randomly), but if you are well defended enough all they will do is run around looting your villages (if you let them). That sort of intimidation becomes much more difficult later on in my experience.

I have one save where I'm on like day 70 and my kingdom consists of nearly all the desert towns and castle, and my only lords are companions. Everyone is at war with me, but they mostly leave me alone because compared to my still low level, my wealth and troop (garrison) numbers are pretty high. It's been by far my easiest kingdom creation experience and at that point in the save I'm dug in enough that I don't have to worry about losing it.

If you are already high level though, then ya you have to do a lot of preparation to avoid getting immediately stomped on by a 2000+ troop lord train.

 

[Caba`drin]

Eventually everyone will declare war on you regardless of your right to rule, relationships, or strength (just like they constantly declare war on each other randomly)

...unless you push through some treaties and alliances, of course. Definitely possible to form lasting peaceful relations with the tools of the Diplomacy mod at your disposal.

 

[monnikje]

The maximum tier for mercenaries, sword sisters and freelancers is 6. Only faction troops go to tier 7.

 

[Wilm0chimp]

Eventually everyone will declare war on you regardless of your right to rule, relationships, or strength (just like they constantly declare war on each other randomly)

...unless you push through some treaties and alliances, of course. Definitely possible to form lasting peaceful relations with the tools of the Diplomacy mod at your disposal.

The Rhodoks may own half the map but they love the **** out of me, even when I form a defensive pact with them and then incite other kingdoms to declare war on me/us, and then try and make peace as soon as possible.

To be fair they deserve it for being so damn strong.

 

[Astasia]

Eventually everyone will declare war on you regardless of your right to rule, relationships, or strength (just like they constantly declare war on each other randomly)

...unless you push through some treaties and alliances, of course. Definitely possible to form lasting peaceful relations with the tools of the Diplomacy mod at your disposal.

I've never seen any treaties or alliances last very long, can't say I've truly tried for last peace though (hasn't concerned me). Anyway I still think it's easier to rush for a kingdom early on, you can build relations after you are a king by sending gifts and whatnot. It's still easier IMO to take and hold something from whoever you declare war on when their lords only have ~20-50 low tier troops.

 

[jarlaxle1985]

This is a very informative thread. Been wanting to start my own just for this.

When I start my own kingdom, what influences the AI factions from attacking me or not? Is it personal relations with the 5 faction heads? Or relations between my kingdom and the other factions, which regularly resets each time treaties are made?

I'm currently a prominent vassal with Rhodoks. Getting along well with Doge Graveth, and I also swore fealty to the most prominent family in there such that I enjoy good and slowly-growing relations with all members in it. Ultimately, I intend to start my own faction with the Rhodoks as my one ally. How do I make it so they love the crap out of me?

 

[Wilm0chimp]

Horses.  Ive no idea how the actual mechanics behind relations work, but I literally just spammed horse gifts to the Rhodoks until my relation was high enough for them to accept trade agreements. Accepting trade agreements gives a big relationship boost, and eventually they accepted a defensive pact which shot me up to 100 with them. Its been there ever since, and any time i want to renew my defensive pact they accept.

I think two things were critical - one was that I owned no land of theirs, giving them no reason to declare war on me or generally not be friends. Two was that because I hadnt pissed them off, I was able to slowly build up relations with them. With every other faction they declared war on me to regain land, which ruins your relationship with them and resets it to 0 when you make peace.

 

[Caba`drin]

Wilm's got the right of it. Faction relations matter; personal relations with the king matter some; whether or not they have a claim to your lands matters a lot; if you fight their allies matters...

Bribes (gifts) are the currency of statesmanship in Diplo's Calradia. Live it and love it

 

[jarlaxle1985]

My other question was re: siege warfare.  When I took the castles as a merc,  I had to push a big siege engine up to the wall myself while the archers picked off some of my guys.  No one helped me push the damn thing and no one stood behind it so as not to get feathered with arrows.  Is there something I am missing here?  Should I have the whole army hold out of arrow range and push the tower up the the walls myself?


last question.... will tier 6 mercs ever level up to 7?

El_brio, you can actually just check the Reports->Reference Material->View Upgrade Trees to see the troop progression. Granted, some aren't represented. Like the Caravan Guard -> Swordsman -> Hired Blade, for one. And the Monk -> Priest -> Bishop or the Monk -> Surgeon. I use it all the damn time, I'm becoming quite OCD about my units. Especially the ones the Castles seem to magically acquire over time. I wish I get to choose what it magically acquires.

As for sieges, it's altogether wonky for me too. I can't stand it. My regular formations don't work. I hate how if it's a joined attack with AI Lords with same troops as mine, my troops are tied to the same callsign as their troops - even after I painstakingly use different callsigns for my key troops. There's also the auto-rush-for-siege-tower when the tower arrives at the wall. Also infuriating. Oh, and when you send squishy support troops (like Surgeons) to retreat... what do they do? They run up the ladders, towards the enemies and certain death. I'd be annoyed if it weren't so ridiculous it's funny. 

But... siege is such an integral part of the game. And I love my troops too much to auto-calc them. So, I tolerate.

 

[Caba`drin]

My regular formations don't work. I hate how if it's a joined attack with AI Lords with same troops as mine, my troops are tied to the same callsign as their troops - even after I painstakingly use different callsigns for my key troops.

Can you be clearer on these points?

There's also the auto-rush-for-siege-tower when the tower arrives at the wall. Also infuriating.

If I can find this, which fix would be better:
1) Off--you have to order charge (likely toggle-able in mod options)
2) As a pre-battle order in the PBO menu

Oh, and when you send squishy support troops (like Surgeons) to retreat... what do they do? They run up the ladders, towards the enemies and certain death.

Yeah, 'retreat' is not the most brilliant order--it flags them to run away, which should say "go to nearest map border", but I'm unconvinced that they calculate the nearest border correctly all the time. I'd recommend giving either a bunch of fall back 10 paces or just using hold position in this case.

 

[Astasia]

If I can find this, which fix would be better:
1) Off--you have to order charge (likely toggle-able in mod options)
2) As a pre-battle order in the PBO menu

I'd personally like a PBO that tells them stand ground.

 

[jarlaxle1985]

My regular formations don't work. I hate how if it's a joined attack with AI Lords with same troops as mine, my troops are tied to the same callsign as their troops - even after I painstakingly use different callsigns for my key troops.

Can you be clearer on these points?

There's also the auto-rush-for-siege-tower when the tower arrives at the wall. Also infuriating.

If I can find this, which fix would be better:
1) Off--you have to order charge (likely toggle-able in mod options)
2) As a pre-battle order in the PBO menu

Oh, and when you send squishy support troops (like Surgeons) to retreat... what do they do? They run up the ladders, towards the enemies and certain death.

Yeah, 'retreat' is not the most brilliant order--it flags them to run away, which should say "go to nearest map border", but I'm unconvinced that they calculate the nearest border correctly all the time. I'd recommend giving either a bunch of fall back 10 paces or just using hold position in this case.

Disclaimer
Just like to say that I love the Floris mod as is, don't mean to come across as whiny. I played Native very, very little before I moved on to mods and found Floris as my current resting place. I never made it to sieges even. So my first siege was in Floris. It could be that the experience I'm having is no fault to the Floris mod, but just the innate flaws of the game engine.

AI Troops Sharing Callsigns
You know how there are battles where the AI troops are under your command? Like helping Manhunter armies or village fights? I found myself wishing that I had those AI troops under their own separate callsign. Example.

My army consists of I2 Recluta and A3 Balestriere and Manhunters. I put Recluta on Callsign 4 (My Infantry), Balestriere on Callsign 5 (My Archers) and Manhunters on Callsign 6 (My Cavalry). I siege a castle along with some allied AI Lords, also using Recluta/Balestriere/Manhunters. Once the fight starts, I find myself able to control all friendly units, even those not mine.

What I want to do is... put all AI Recluta up front near the walls so they soak up the enemy return fire, put all AI Balestriere on the second line some space behind the AI Recluta, then put my Recluta line after that, then my Balestriere, then put both our Manhunters way back as the final storming party when the arrows/bolts have had their part.

But what happens now is... when I select Callsign 1 for Infantry, expecting the AI Lord's Recluta, I get nothing. Why? Because the AI Reclutas are all lumped in together with mine in Callsign 4. It would seem that the game treats callsigns as specific to a troop type regardless of owner army, not troop type AND the owner army. So when I named my Recluta under a different callsign, it's a moot point when fighting alongside allies with the same Recluta.

Formations Being Wonky During Sieges
OK, I can't get them my infantry to form ranks and then bunch together shoulder-to-shoulder like they usually do when I issue Form Ranks and a bunch of Stand Closer commands. The best I can do is make them hold position, during which they'll stand in one long line spread apart by the width of 1-2 men in between each man.

This becomes an issue for sieges where the start location is by a cliff or river/sea (attacking Jelbegi Castle). I want to expose my elite crossbowmen in a tight space where they get a clearer shot to the garrison archers picking away at my infantryline's shields. I could have packed more men in that small space were I be able to do this, thus able to deliver a higher throughput of bolts at the enemy. What I had to do was wait for those in-access crossbowmen to run out of ammo, during which they are automatically assigned (mod option) to Infantry - so they move elsewhere.

I could be a moron about this, in that it isn't a problem - just the usual keys I keep mashing aren't there during a siege. I'll pay more attention next time to confirm this. This isn't a large problem though, Caba'drin. If you've got like an entirely list of things to fix, I venture those other things are more important.

 

[Caba`drin]

Disclaimer
Just like to say that I love the Floris mod as is, don't mean to come across as whiny. I played Native very, very little before I moved on to mods and found Floris as my current resting place. I never made it to sieges even. So my first siege was in Floris. It could be that the experience I'm having is no fault to the Floris mod, but just the innate flaws of the game engine.

No need for a disclaimer--you weren't coming off as whiny. Apologies if my requests for more info came off as suggesting that.

AI Troops Sharing Callsigns
But what happens now is... when I select Callsign 1 for Infantry, expecting the AI Lord's Recluta, I get nothing. Why? Because the AI Reclutas are all lumped in together with mine in Callsign 4. It would seem that the game treats callsigns as specific to a troop type regardless of owner army, not troop type AND the owner army. So when I named my Recluta under a different callsign, it's a moot point when fighting alongside allies with the same Recluta.

Gotcha. Just wanted to make sure that's what you meant. Yeah, that's Native...but my gut is that's also how most folk would want it, though maybe I'm wrong.

Wouldn't be hard to toss a toggle/option into mod options, though. Unless you have a better suggestion for where that would go? (Pre-battle orders? the Split troop division screen?) EDIT - added to mod options for 2.53. Feel free to comment if you'd like it elsewhere in future versions.

Formations Being Wonky During Sieges
OK, I can't get them my infantry to form ranks and then bunch together shoulder-to-shoulder like they usually do when I issue Form Ranks and a bunch of Stand Closer commands. The best I can do is make them hold position, during which they'll stand in one long line spread apart by the width of 1-2 men in between each man.

Formations are disabled in sieges mostly for performance reasons (and because it would be nightmare--near impossible--to try to get the AI to use them appropriately in the small space). Stand closer x4 should still get you a decent clump o' troops though.


EDIT -

There's also the auto-rush-for-siege-tower when the tower arrives at the wall. Also infuriating.

If I can find this, which fix would be better:
1) Off--you have to order charge (likely toggle-able in mod options)
2) As a pre-battle order in the PBO menu

Added to mod options for 2.53. Feel free to comment if you'd like it elsewhere in future versions.

 

[jarlaxle1985]

Just like that? You could make the callsign feature just like that? I actually thought something like that would be take much longer than just a couple days.

Just curious, what do you do for a living, Caba'drin? Are you a software engineer of sorts?

 

[Turtledude]

i use the small men (mostly surgens) i would really like too have a way too make it were no matter what if during pre-battle or in the mod options you can make it were the never join battles but there effect stays the same

 

[Caba`drin]

i use the small men (mostly surgens) i would really like too have a way too make it were no matter what if during pre-battle or in the mod options you can make it were the never join battles but there effect stays the same

Put them at the bottom of your party list.
If you're in battle, there's no way to prevent the enemy from overrunning even your camp followers or support folk, so no, that won't be an option.

 

[el_brio]

So I invested some more time over the weekend building my character up.  I have 3 castles and 2 cities under my control at this point.  I am getting kind of frustrated.  My king won't award me any further castles/cities because he says that I am too powerful.  It is annoying because my faction was struggling and so I romped around the map and kicked some ass but then the castles/cities that I capture get awarded to some wimpy minor lord who garrisons like 25 low level troops there and the territory gets lost in a couple of days.  Grrrrr.  Another huge annoyance is the terribly dull missions that lords ask you to do for them.  I don't even bother.  Sorry, but no, my army of 200+ high level units doesn't want to deliver a letter or escort some cattle for 100 silver.

I also found it annoying as hell when I captured two castles right next to each other and tried to bounce back and forth between the two shooing away (or slaughtering) small stacks that would constantly siege them waiting for the king to award them to someone (who then promptly garrisoned 50 troops there). 

I realize now that starting my own faction at the point I was at was a highly unrealistic proposition.  A couple of questions:

1.  I am having a hard time breaking even financially.  I have two cities (Curaw and Urxhal) and three castles.  I have about 250 tier 3+ (mostly 4+) troops in each city and about 100 tier 3+ troops (mostly 4+) in each castle.  I have several acres in my capital city and dyeworks all over the map (several are always under sequestration).  I a find myself raiding enemy villages a lot to make extra cash.  Should I buy more land?

2.  I am around level 25 (not 100% sure).  In the cities I control, how big of a stack do I need to maintain in order not to lose one of my cities?  Since when the game auto resolves battles it seems to be extremely punitive, I want to make sure that I have an adequate garrison.

Finally, I just wanted to say that I picked up a heavy crossbow (not usable on horseback) and have been having a blast when defending against sieges mercilessly picking off fodder that is storming up the ladder to meet my tier 6 infantry at the top of the ladders