buddy, as much as I dislike saying it, the examples you brought up are completly in line with how things have been handled in any season I can remember (assuming they started handling it this way in s2, but not sure).
the naming and tag rules are stupid (and I've been saying that since season 1), but your "evidence" is a joke.
(1) Players must play with the name they are signed up under in the team roster.
(2) The team must wear the team tag (through the clan system and Steam) that is used in the roster thread.
(3) Team tags must be unique.
(4) Players must be 'online' on Steam during a match.
Btw, I don't really care about the situation, but for real @Hairless - why didn't you make this thread right after the match? You were waiting for the result of RM-HINQ match? Cuz if RM won, DM would be in the finals? And when you saw they lost and you won't be the 2nd you started this drama?
Btw, I don't really care about the situation, but for real @Hairless - why didn't you make this thread right after the match? You were waiting for the result of RM-HINQ match? Cuz if RM won, DM would be in the finals? And when you saw they lost and you won't be the 2nd you started this drama?
I was all the time in contact with admins, and to some extend had hope we can resolve that in between them and me. But as there were no results and all my reasoning was not seen as objective, I decided to make it public. It is in fact late, but it is not to late.
I was all the time in contact with admins, and to some extend had hope we can resolve that in between them and me. But as there were no results and all my reasoning was not seen as objective, I decided to make it public. It is in fact late, but it is not to late.
Seems like everybody is unhappy. SO here is what we are going to do:
- We are not touching the suspensions or having a rematch. We could discuss removing the defaulted rounds in the RM vs DM match if RM agrees to it. But since Varadin cheated - not necessarily aware of it or intending to do so- he clearly broke our rules. By using the aim helper DM got an unfair advantage.
My point of view is that the team leader is responsibile to keep their players in check. I am sure, I told some of you already that the leaders need to be aware of who they put on their roster. Varadin and so in extension Destiny Masters used a forbidden modification and his team leader should have been aware of it.
The default was justified and RM was entitled to take it. We're not going to touch the results of that match.
However, as a big part of the community has voiced their dislike (some in really flowery language ) and more importantly most teams of divisions A want to see a rematch, we are reinstalling the Semi Finals.
I am aware that we just abolished it and now we're already bringing it back. Manny of you won't be happy with this and I personally am not a big fan of it either. I can honestly say that I do not like this decision because it shakens the trust in established statements and rules. With that said, though I am not a big fan of this change, it is in my eyes I the best course of action.
It gives all the involved teams a fair chance of redeeming themselves.
Since most teams asked for a rematch between RM and DM I expect all division A teams ( @Hairless , @Gotha , @DonNeto@Quadri@Hisoka ) to agree to this in light of sportsmanship.
@Jufasto I am sure RM is not a big fan of this. See it as a way to prove your superiority. You don't need gifted wins, right?
The end
Since I am already here, I'll share my thoughts with you:
Also we propose for a rule that lead to such an unfair decision to be changed, so in the future we can avoid situations like these that led to endless arguing:
If advantage is clear and the unfair edge over the other team can be easily measured(ex. autoblock,wallhack,aimbot), then the rounds in which the player found cheating shall be defaulted. If the advantage is impossible to measure or minor(change of UI colour, crosshair), then on the request of the team that was facing the team with such advantage is the decision if they want to replay the rounds in which the found cheating player was taking part in or to accept the original result. The player which was found to use a modification or cheat is automatically suspended for the replay of the aforementioned rounds.
In fact, we would also propose crosshairs to become exception of this rule, as an access to them is easy, and they can be obtained through various ways, including monitor settings, external softwares, gluing a piece of material to your screen.
(1) It is strictly prohibited to modify the game files or implement modifications, e.g. aimbots or autoblock. Every player that is found to have modified files or using game modifications will face disciplinary action at the administrations discretion, up to and including a ban from the tournament.
For instance, is it fair that RM played their match vs HINQ under the assumption that they had a 12-0 over DM (meaning that they were guaranteed a spot in the finals) only to revoke that after their match vs HINQ.
Also, if you start differentiating between types of cheating as being "major or minor" then you are creating uncertainty and the potential for debate in the future about whether a player's actions constitute major or minor cheating
Yeah. That's surely the reason why the verdict is so strict. I don't label Varadin as a cheater and I don't think he needs cheats to performe. He simply broke one of the most important rules we have - intentionally or not.
There was no proof presented of RM and Hinq fixing the match. DM played Hinq 8-7. RM played Hinq 8-9. DM played RM (unadjusted) 11-5. Hinq has been improving every season since they started to play in Beast. Maybe it's just too hard for teams to recognize that they are simply playing well.
I have to be honest. You're right with that perception. And it's why I am not a big fan of our decision but it's the best for the tourney. And that's what our overall focus is on.
Don't take it as a response to you personally @TheGioManDude but my general response to this suggestion:
You can't discuss every issue on the forum. It takes long enough for a couple of admins to decide the issue and you want to invite all the teams with different motives, ideas and bias?
We usually talk at length about all the decsions we do. We look at pros and cons. And vote on it. And usually decisions have draw backs.
Honestly most of the players would suck at being admins for Beast. I and say that because during the 6 six seasons, one and a half year, that I have run or co run this tournament I had the pleasure to have petty discussions with almost all the teamleaders on here. You can't believe the excuses people come up with for why they can't play on their due date. Or why they want to be placed in this or that divison OR don't want other teams to be placed.
I don't give a **** if players like Death, who repeatedly asked me to temper with the schedule or match ups while I was still a member in KW, says that the adminstration is ruining the tournament.
We're playing a hot mess of a game. Obviously with our limited tools the tourney is sometimes like a huge hot dumpster fire. Beast is my and the other admins' baby. If anybody has the right to ruin it, it should be us
I do this admins stuff, and pride myself, with it because I do a better job than most of us do. Keep believing whatever you want. This **** is time consuming and exhausting. Bard didn't leave because he was bored or had better things to do.
As admins we want to improve the tournament and we often get antagonized for it. That's just the way it is. We don't do this to make every single player happy but to keep the competition fair.
@TheBard ✂ Bruder, gönn dir ne Pause. Hast du dir verdient.
well, it's been done before, and a more critical one than this topic, they literally changed promotion system during beast 5, when there was only 1 week left to finish it
Well we wanted to do that in Beast 4 actually.
The competition was getting stale, the tournament was too long and the divsions were too big and it takes for ever for new teams to join or leave. That's why we wanted to add fast promotion before Beast 5. But we rolled it back and announced the changes to come in the follwoing season.
I don't give a **** if players like Death, who repeatedly asked me to temper with the schedule or match ups while I was still a member in KW, says that the adminstration is ruining the tournament.
We're playing a hot mess of a game. Obviously with our limited tools the tourney is sometimes like a huge hot dumpster fire. Beast is my and the other admins' baby. If anybody has the right to ruin it, it should be us
I did ask you once or twice to match fix and it's rat thing to do and I am not proud of it.Now that I host BDC I understand how important it is to be neutral and treat everyone fair.
(1) It is strictly prohibited to modify the game files or implement modifications, e.g. aimbots or autoblock. Every player that is found to have modified files or using game modifications will face disciplinary action at the administrations discretion, up to and including a ban from the tournament.
Imo you and Aeronnwen are having trouble evaluating such situations. If I was responsible to punish 1or3 and Varadin I'd ban them from BEAST for 1 week maximum. I already said crosshair modification or crosshair feature on your monitor is the same. The way the rules are I can enable my monitor's crosshair use it and get away with it. Not to mention you can't prove it. If a player is hacking with wallhack,aimbot,autoblock handing out a perma ban would be a very accurate decision. You took it too far by defaulting the match and that resulted in ruining the Top 3 division A standings.Neither RM or DM is responsible for the drama and community toxicity but you and Aeronwen caused this. We appreciate your BEAST management but you make it look hard and it's time consuming for sure 1-2 hours of your day goes on managing this forum section. However, we don't need forum section management as anyone can do that. We need BEAST staff who can properly evaluate situations and with your actions both of you kinda proved you aren't fit to take decisions like that.
You should order a rematch and allow or forbid the use crosshair feature or modification.
Can you share your thought process on how you came up with an idea of banning 2 players and giving the default, what long term pros have you found and whether or not you expected followed consequences? Also what are the cons of not banning players and screwing the A div for a dot?
It's so funny to see how administrators opinion changes radically opposite. You change the rules during the tournament by adding/removing semi-finals however you want. For me personally, your reputation and respect for you has come to naught. It's ridiculous to seriously consider screenshots 2 weeks ago excluding the results of recent matches. Everyone was talking about a rematch, and not about adding semi-finals. But my speech is not about the fairness of adding changes, but about stating that this is wrong as a fact.
Did the addition of the semi-finals during the tournament relieve you of responsibility? This is the same violation of the rules on your part, like if u would make a rematch with RM. It's just kinda unprofessional to follow to any view. Just adding the rules yourself during the tournament is tantamount to breaking your own rules, it is doubly shameful when it comes to the fact that something becomes profitable for one team and the other no longer. This is my personal opinion on your decision to make changes during the tournament (more than twice already considering beast 6).
You can assume that my opinion is biased and I would not say so without being related to this, this is your right. In any case, I'm not not avoiding cw with DM and I'm not trying to change your decision. I accept the rules and I am glad to smash them, but your decisions are biased, there is no need to argue with this and stop pretending to be a hero.
DM got a second chance as they think, but it will be doomsday for them, where they will be eliminated from the tournament in disgrace. In 2 weeks I will finish this circus by putting an end to it.
It's so funny to see how administrators opinion changes radically opposite. You change the rules during the tournament by adding/removing semi-finals however you want. For me personally, your reputation and respect for you has come to naught. It's ridiculous to seriously consider screenshots 2 weeks ago excluding the results of recent matches. Everyone was talking about a rematch, and not about adding semi-finals. But my speech is not about the fairness of adding changes, but about stating that this is wrong as a fact.
Did the addition of the semi-finals during the tournament relieve you of responsibility? This is the same violation of the rules on your part, like if u would make a rematch with RM. It's just kinda unprofessional to follow to any view. Just adding the rules yourself during the tournament is tantamount to breaking your own rules, it is doubly shameful when it comes to the fact that something becomes profitable for one team and the other no longer. This is my personal opinion on your decision to make changes during the tournament (more than twice already considering beast 6).
You can assume that my opinion is biased and I would not say so without being related to this, this is your right. In any case, I'm not not avoiding cw with DM and I'm not trying to change your decision. I accept the rules and I am glad to smash them, but your decisions are biased, there is no need to argue with this and stop pretending to be a hero.
DM got a second chance as they think, but it will be doomsday for them, where they will be eliminated from the tournament in disgrace. In 2 weeks I will finish this circus by putting an end to it.
There are a number of misunderstandings in this thread that I think it may be a good idea to clear up.
@Hairless
Varadin was banned for 3 matches for modifying the game files – which he did. Not sure why you chose to put modifying in quotes. It gives a misleading impression.
As far as I am concerned, Nikola had a ban for posting how to do the modification in Discord after it was clearly stated by the tournament admins as against the rules.
“admins decided that it is a major advantage,” This is also intentionally misleading. Any modification is against the rules. At no point does the rule say it must be a major advantage.
If you want to preserve the competitive spirit of the tournament then I suggest you let skill decide the outcome of matches and not what mods you can make or how you can manipulate other people in the forums and Discords.
At no point was the consequence of the rule break ‘a default win’. The rounds in which the player broke the rules are defaulted. If Varadin had only played one round then only one round would have been defaulted. If Varadin had only played in rounds in which DM lost then no rounds would have been defaulted.
Your rule change proposal is open to several questions
If advantage is clear and the unfair edge over the other team can be easily measured(ex. autoblock,wallhack,aimbot), then the rounds in which the player found cheating shall be defaulted. If the advantage is impossible to measure or minor(change of UI colour, crosshair), then on the request of the team that was facing the team with such advantage is the decision if they want to replay the rounds in which the found cheating player was taking part in or to accept the original result. The player which was found to use a modification or cheat is automatically suspended for the replay of the aforementioned rounds.
Who decides if the advantage is clear? What do you mean by clear? How is the advantage to be measured and by whom? If any of the answers to this is ‘the admins’ then how is it different to what just happened?
(btw this should all become relatively moot when the XML files are included in the anticheat check)
There is no substance here for what happens to the player who used a modification (such as aimbot) other than to be suspended from a replay. You think the aimbotter should be allowed into the next match?
What is the time limit on the replay? Given that an accusation has to be made and the admins have to look at the proof (and apparently evaluate how much advantage a specific modification gives), it might be difficult for teams to schedule as they have other matches. How do we ensure a fair scheduling for a replay?
In the past having any exception to the rule has been problematic as then, anyone who wants to modify their game has claimed their modification is no different to the allowed exceptions. No mods at all is a very clear and easily understandable rule. A lot of the discussion in this thread shows you that however clear and precise the wording of the rules some people will distort, willfully misinterpret or simply lie to try and get around it.
Ideally the devs would implement a crosshair choice in game, I hope they do. @Gibby Jr – good posts
For those who do not want a round in which there was a rule break defaulted, please consider the following (for yourself I am not going to read or respond. Experience shows most people here will post different answers depending what will benfit them at this moment.)
You are playing in the final. The other team wins by one round. You find out later, they had an unfair advantage in that round. Should that round be defaulted?
If the answer to this is yes; then how are you going to differentiate how many rounds are defaulted when the score is different? What about if the score was 6-9 and the person who broke the rules played in all the winning rounds?
If you answer no; then explain how it is fair that the team used an unfair advantage wins such a close match.
The arguments around RM losing to Hinq and accusations of match-fixing, while unfounded, do show how the table in Div A can be manipulated.
In season 6 we introduced semi finals that would mitigate this problem. We had a lot of complaints about the system after week 4 when teams in div A guessed their final standings. Because of those complaints and the often stated ‘players don’t want this’ we removed the semis for this tournament. However now it seems Div A team leaders perceive the value of the semis.
I just want to make clear the extra week happens anyway because the promo matches are 2 step.
Without the semis it is:
5 weeks ladder + week 6 promo first matches + week 7 promo 2nd matches and finals
With the semis it is:
5 weeks ladder + week 6 promo first matches & semis + week 7 promo 2nd matches and finals
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) and more importantly most teams of divisions A want to see a rematch, we are reinstalling the Semi Finals.
