BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

BEAST is the first Bannerlord Skirmish tournament in Europe.

Quick Overview

Category
Bannerlord
Language
English (UK)
Total members
277
Total events
0
Total discussions
263

Appeal to admins' decision and a proposition of a rule change

Users who are viewing this thread

As of the current standing in match between Destiny Masters and Risen Manifest happened a rule break: Varadin and 1or3 were banned for "modyfying" the game files and adding a crosshair to their games, which resulted in both of them being banned for 3 games. Then a 12-0 default was assigned to RM, and we as DM don't agree to this outcome, and as we tried to appeal it was declined as admins decided that it is a major advantage, and then according to that Risen Manifest claimed a 12-0 default. We believe, that first of all crosshair is not a major advantage, especially not an advantage that decides the match's result. Then we as players think that rulling 12-0 like this is contradictionary to the spirit of non-paid tournament that BEAST in fact is. We all as players play here for our results to be decided in game, and our time investement is to be represented as official results of our matches. In that case, we believe that this kind of rulling was in fact unfair. Also the rule that led admin team to take such a decision is too broad:

§ 2 Cheating
§2(3)
(3) If a player is found to have broken any of the rules during a match and the admins determine that a significant* advantage was gained, that player's team will forfeit the relevant rounds. (*'significant' in the technical sense of 'potentially possible to measure')

I went around and asked all Division A teams about their opinion on the situation, and all of them agreed with my point of view that assigning a default to RM is in fact not a fair result, for both BEAST ladder and Destiny Masters. What we believe is more fair is a rematch between RM and DM during the week inbetween week 5 and finals. That way we can ensure that competetive spirit of the tournament is preserved and no scores are unfairly assigned to teams over forums instead of being decided in game. Here are the proofs of all div A teams opinions:

Division A 5/6:
unknown.png

unknown.png

unknown.png

unknown.png


Division B 5/6
unknown.png

unknown.png

unknown.png

unknown.png

unknown.png


Division C (3 teams only cuz they are the only ones I managed to ask)
unknown.png

unknown.png

unknown.png


Also we propose for a rule that lead to such an unfair decision to be changed, so in the future we can avoid situations like these that led to endless arguing:

If advantage is clear and the unfair edge over the other team can be easily measured(ex. autoblock,wallhack,aimbot), then the rounds in which the player found cheating shall be defaulted. If the advantage is impossible to measure or minor(change of UI colour, crosshair), then on the request of the team that was facing the team with such advantage is the decision if they want to replay the rounds in which the found cheating player was taking part in or to accept the original result. The player which was found to use a modification or cheat is automatically suspended for the replay of the aforementioned rounds.

In fact, we would also propose crosshairs to become exception of this rule, as an access to them is easy, and they can be obtained through various ways, including monitor settings, external softwares, gluing a piece of material to your screen.


Also I appreciate any feedback from others.

@Aeronwen @Ikea Knight @LaPache @Gotha @Quadri @DonNeto @Hisoka @Jufasto
 
Last edited:
I think BEAST staff is ruining the tournament with their action. I am positive many players use dot or crosshair and they have it on their monitor. I don't consider this to be a hack but rather a modification. Regardless giving a team who is weaker than DM a pass to the finals is very unfair when they don't deserve it.
I propose the match to be replayed and dot to be allowed as peoplle already use it and 99% of gaming monitors have it as a feature and it won't appear even on stream. Not to mention Varadin streams to entertain the community and you ruined that as well.
 
They (or at least Varadin, not sure about 1or3) were banned for illegally modifying game files as far as I know, right? That sounds like a justified ban to me - discussion about whether or not something gives an advantage will never be completly unbiased, but if modifying files is forbidden, there is no need for those.

For future reference, I'd agree that crosshair modifications should be allowed, though not if they make the crosshair or part of it stay on the screen permanently. Think thats how it was handled on warband as well?

Regarding whether a default win should have been handed out, I have no opinion either way, but if both teams were to agree that it shouldn't have been awarded, I'd just agree with that if I was an admin.

Bans in this case are justified though IMO - it's still a forbidden change, so even if it is allowed now, there may have been an advantage that the players in question got to use while others weren't allowed or aware.
 
Then a 12-0 default was assigned to RM, and we as DM don't agree to this outcome, and as we tried to appeal it was declined as admins decided that it is a major advantage, and then according to that Risen Manifest claimed a 12-0 default. We believe, that first of all crosshair is not a major advantage, especially not an advantage that decides the match's result.
Retroactively changing this now opens up other arguments. For instance, is it fair that RM played their match vs HINQ under the assumption that they had a 12-0 over DM (meaning that they were guaranteed a spot in the finals) only to revoke that after their match vs HINQ. Player mentality is heavily affected by factors like that, so if you wanted to go down the "replay" route you'd have to provide something in this area as well or you'd be trading one "unfair decision" for another. It would have been far better for you to make a public appeal like this immediately after the admin decision so that other factors didn't become involved.
If advantage is clear and the unfair edge over the other team can be easily measured(ex. autoblock,wallhack,aimbot), then the rounds in which the player found cheating shall be defaulted. If the advantage is impossible to measure or minor(change of UI colour, crosshair), then on the request of the team that was facing the team with such advantage is the decision if they want to replay the rounds in which the found cheating player was taking part in or to accept the original result. The player which was found to use a modification or cheat is automatically suspended for the replay of the aforementioned rounds.

In fact, we would also propose crosshairs to become exception of this rule, as an access to them is easy, and they can be obtained through various ways, including monitor settings, external softwares, gluing a piece of material to your screen.
You may believe the rule is too broad, and I don't disagree that exceptions could be given in future iterations of the ruleset, but as it is written there does not need to be a "major advantage". If the advantage can be measured then it is significant enough according to the rules. I don't think this should change as a general rule because you need a broad basis in a game like this - if you use more specific rules then there's the potential for people to cheat in ways that are not included in the ruleset and to get away with it that way. Imo a broad rule with specific listed exceptions (like UI, crosshair etc. if you wanted that) is the best way to ensure people can't bypass the rule. Also, if you start differentiating between types of cheating as being "major or minor" then you are creating uncertainty and the potential for debate in the future about whether a player's actions constitute major or minor cheating. That's not in and of itself a bad thing but it does mean admins have to be more subjective in their ruling - which I gather from many people's statements on discord is not something they actually want.
 
Retroactively changing this now opens up other arguments. For instance, is it fair that RM played their match vs HINQ under the assumption that they had a 12-0 over DM (meaning that they were guaranteed a spot in the finals) only to revoke that after their match vs HINQ. Player mentality is heavily affected by factors like that, so if you wanted to go down the "replay" route you'd have to provide something in this area as well or you'd be trading one "unfair decision" for another. It would have been far better for you to make a public appeal like this immediately after the admin decision so that other factors didn't become involved.

You may believe the rule is too broad, and I don't disagree that exceptions could be given in future iterations of the ruleset, but as it is written there does not need to be a "major advantage". If the advantage can be measured then it is significant enough according to the rules. I don't think this should change as a general rule because you need a broad basis in a game like this - if you use more specific rules then there's the potential for people to cheat in ways that are not included in the ruleset and to get away with it that way. Imo a broad rule with specific listed exceptions (like UI, crosshair etc. if you wanted that) is the best way to ensure people can't bypass the rule.
So you are saying RM played their match aganist HINQ without having a win in mind,rather something more in line of matchfixing? I don't think factors like that should influence player judgement on how they should play, it's all about playing to win.

what a lier! where is RM screenshot? Stopped reading after this

I believe DM and RM opinions are biased as both teams come from oposite backgrounds with different advantages they can gain from either outcomes.
 
modify files = ban
rules change during tournament = not being done
there are no rule for a rematch,and rematch never done before in any beast.
if they change rules during tournament now why they haven't changed before during tournament.
 
So you are saying RM played their match aganist HINQ without having a win in mind,rather something more in line of matchfixing? I don't think factors like that should influence player judgement on how they should play, it's all about playing to win.
Not at all. If I am under the assumption that a match result is irrelevant, because I'm going to be in the finals regardless, do I practice as much leading up to the match? Am I sweating every time I die because it's all on the line? Player mentality is intrinsically tied with factors like this. That's why, as I say, if you want to go back and change a decision after another match has been played you need to account for that match as well. I say that in benefit of both RM and DM, as both should be given the opportunity to replay any matches played after the decision if you want to go back and change it. That may not sound fair on HINQ and Div, because it isn't, but it's also not fair on RM to change the decision after they played another match with it in mind.

As a side note, if there were semi-finals, which I think most people agree there should have been for a tournament with so many competitive teams in division A, this would be far less of an issue.
 
I exactly remember they didn't change my suggestion about finals adding every map to the pool and making last map tiebreaker,just because of the ''during tournament phase'',and they added next beast.So ye,if you want to change it you can make suggestion for next beast.
 
Its way too late I would say, everything sattled already. You should've told this 1.5 week ago? Since this problem was 1.5 week ago? Then it would be based.

Also rule is very clear, if you modification the game file, it include cheat and you would lose that cheater played. Asking others will not change the situation that in written in the rules. I also very sure about that not only Varadin or 1or3 but 4 of you from 6 guy at least played by modification the game file. The problem its not dot hopefully you can see it.
 
Not at all. If I am under the assumption that a match result is irrelevant, because I'm going to be in the finals regardless, do I practice as much leading up to the match? Am I sweating every time I die because it's all on the line? Player mentality is intrinsically tied with factors like this. That's why, as I say, if you want to go back and change a decision after another match has been played you need to account for that match as well. I say that in benefit of both RM and DM, as both should be given the opportunity to replay any matches played after the decision if you want to go back and change it. That may not sound fair on HINQ and Div, because it isn't, but it's also not fair on RM to change the decision after they played another match with it in mind.

As a side note, if there were semi-finals, which I think most people agree there should have been for a tournament with so many competitive teams in division A, this would be far less of an issue.
Its way too late I would say, everything sattled already. You should've told this 1.5 week ago? Since this problem was 1.5 week ago? Then it would be based.
I exactly remember they didn't change my suggestion about finals adding every map to the pool and making last map tiebreaker,just because of the ''during tournament phase'',and they added next beast.So ye,if you want to change it you can make suggestion for next beast.
You see thats the thing in this discussion, both my opinion opposing your points, and your points themselves are clearly biased as we come from opposing backgrounds. It would be far more reasonable for people that are more or less neutral to voice themselves, as for example captains of Division A teams did.
 
(1) It is strictly prohibited to modify the game files or implement modifications, e.g. aimbots or autoblock. Every player that is found to have modified files or using game modifications will face disciplinary action at the administrations discretion, up to and including a ban from the tournament.

We are telling you a rule,and in beast rules doesn't change during tournament,and admins already decided,you are suggesting a topic again over a decision,and tell us biased,how come?
 
Back
Top Bottom