Here is a screenshot of where things stand after roughly 500 days:
Anyone else thinks D'shar Troop Tree is too strong right now?
- Thread starter bobknight
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Sarleon. I don´t have much of a king in me.k0nr@d said:
bobknight
Sergeant at Arms
DeuxGzuis said:
Look at what they use. look at their weapon proficiency. Sarleon armored long bows are really, really bad archers. They are worse in every respect to EACs, and as pure archers, Rangers demolishes them. Compare EVERY stat, from both equipment and skills, the D'shar elite marksmen are better.
Armored long bows are there to stuff castles when you don't want to spend forever to train proper ranged units. And they don't even do THAT as well as pendor armored bows. They are objectively the second worst elite archer unit in the game. ahead of ONLY the orc bowmens.
You don't F1-F3 into a huskarl mob. You don't stand there and shoot vs an archer mob.
They are uniquely equipped to deal with every type of enemy because they are the only true cavalry archers in the game that can fight as well as shoot. They make Mtd RRs look like schmucks.
If you are losing with a pure army of D'shar elite horsemen, then you have turned off your brain when fighting field battles.
They are also level 36 while the Armored Longbowman is level 30. You can mass-train Armored Longbowmen easier.bobknight said:
Yea, when you win against Syla Uzas or any unique spawn using your dshar ''ULTRA STRONG CAVALRY ARCHERS'' i will start to believe in you.bobknight said:
With full damage, they lose even if it's a pure cavalry army, and with battle size 330, against Sarleon, they're absolutelly destroyed, Halb and longbow just kill everything, fierd berserk is the same, rangers do the same, crossbowman is even more effective against cavalry, gladiators destroy them the same, but i guess i would need to take pictures from actual battles in game for you to see the casualties from these ''ULTRA OP CAVALRY'' units.
I guess i'm done with this thread.
In my game I did support every fraction as a mercenary except the D'shar. They are the strongest now. Iam at the empire fraction now as a lord with a village and castle. We do pretty good against the D'shar and Sarleron. Ravenstern is doing very good, too. They still hold 3 more castles then from the Beginning. And the Freds get slaughtered by everyone except me, I rescue them most of the time because iam marshall 
I am at day 235. 3.8 makes a lot of fun. And the Noldor map icon, scene looks muuuch better
I am at day 235. 3.8 makes a lot of fun. And the Noldor map icon, scene looks muuuch better 
Graf Zeppelin
Veteran
I am just playing them. If they can make their cavalry work they are awesome, if not they just die.
Their infantry could need a bit love but its not a must imo.
Their infantry could need a bit love but its not a must imo.
Graf Zeppelin
Veteran
The Fierds are **** crazy in auto calc again.riraito. said:
Also maybe its just my curent game but their lords bring constanly 200+ troopss to battle. Just like in good old times.
Serazu
Sergeant Knight
471 days of adventuring so far and behold the map:
It has to be one of the most balanced playthroughs I've ever had, if not the most balanced. Congratulations to the devs!
P.S. - Like I've written before though, I immediately check the no-autodefections option the moment I start a game.
P.S. 2 - It may also have to do with the infinite reinforcement waves, as well. Many-many times the same fiefs changed hands between the original faction and another. If this is the case, I'll partly eat my words concerning my previous condemnation of the new mechanic. I still consider it a bad idea when the player is involved in a defending siege, but it looks like it aids faction balance, which is also an important thing. If it does help achieve the latter, kudos to Leonion.
It has to be one of the most balanced playthroughs I've ever had, if not the most balanced. Congratulations to the devs!
P.S. - Like I've written before though, I immediately check the no-autodefections option the moment I start a game.
P.S. 2 - It may also have to do with the infinite reinforcement waves, as well. Many-many times the same fiefs changed hands between the original faction and another. If this is the case, I'll partly eat my words concerning my previous condemnation of the new mechanic. I still consider it a bad idea when the player is involved in a defending siege, but it looks like it aids faction balance, which is also an important thing. If it does help achieve the latter, kudos to Leonion.
Serazu said:
Dshar incredibly weak in the field now (without hobostice's mod). Majority of infantry have polearms and sucky archers.
Titanjones said:
Do you mean - "D`shar Lords bring weak troops" ? Or "D`shar troops are weak in the field" ?
Because the latter is not correct, they have decent troops.
The former, about lords strength, might be at least a subject for discussion . But only if you check lords at some perfectly "neutral" point of time, when nothing has influenced their strength.
Yes, more often than not Dshars seem strong in early, because of the overwhelming cav, fast infantry and acceptable archers, many times to the point that i have to vassalage for Empire or Orcs just to save their sorry arses for later, so i can pawn them myself.
But, once the game deepens, i recommend trying a easy little scenario:
Take on a Jatu/Noldor/Serpent army using each factions troops separately. You will notice that Sarleon/Pendor/Empire stand a good chance. Fierds and Raves require good management (and perhaps an understanding of the AI's flaws in desperate situations) to manage a win. While the Dshars will kinda let you down. Of course, if you roleplay a Bayazid approach and want to reinstate the eastern empires, you will build some nice really heavily armored warhorses tanks and complete the Dshar destiny, but if you only play factions bare-ass, all troops included be them nobles or not, the balance changes.
Personally, i believe Pendor lines and Empires lines to be complete and the strongest from the player's point of view and leave little room for the imagination, with every top tier unit line being the strongest in its field, xbows, halberds, legionnaires, good archers and stable shields with pierce etc. completed with the outrageous SLCs, Immortals or the OP Pendor noble line respectively.
Tbh, the simple fact that Pendor seems different to most of us speaks about it's well implemented balance. Perhaps in the end it is a matter of luck and style of play.
But, once the game deepens, i recommend trying a easy little scenario:
Take on a Jatu/Noldor/Serpent army using each factions troops separately. You will notice that Sarleon/Pendor/Empire stand a good chance. Fierds and Raves require good management (and perhaps an understanding of the AI's flaws in desperate situations
) to manage a win. While the Dshars will kinda let you down. Of course, if you roleplay a Bayazid approach and want to reinstate the eastern empires, you will build some nice really heavily armored warhorses tanks and complete the Dshar destiny, but if you only play factions bare-ass, all troops included be them nobles or not, the balance changes.Personally, i believe Pendor lines and Empires lines to be complete and the strongest from the player's point of view and leave little room for the imagination, with every top tier unit line being the strongest in its field, xbows, halberds, legionnaires, good archers and stable shields with pierce etc. completed with the outrageous SLCs, Immortals or the OP Pendor noble line respectively.
Tbh, the simple fact that Pendor seems different to most of us speaks about it's well implemented balance. Perhaps in the end it is a matter of luck and style of play.
May want to have a conversation with Marius imperantor 600 vs 400 with the dshar, this was about day 30, got creamed. Those phoenix knights ran us over pretty bad, got knocked out in about the 2nd wave. Dshar have never felt strong to me always seemed the weakest but current gameplay has them breaching sarleon and putting up a fight now against the empire.
Take on a Jatu/Noldor/Serpent army using each factions troops separately. You will notice that Sarleon/Pendor/Empire stand a good chance. Fierds and Raves require good management (and perhaps an understanding of the AI's flaws in desperate situations
Just to share some experience -
While i haven`t tried to kill jatu with proper army in 3.8., but i have tried to take them down with infantry only army . Just for the sake of trying different combos in new version and trying out new troops.
So i just spawn Jatu army through cheatmenu - they are approximately 430-440 men strong. And fight them (with minimum player intervention ) , only condition is to get a hill (not a mountain, just a hill ).
I then take something like 150 top inf, and 50 top archers for my army (next time will try to change proportions) - so far tried sarleon, empire and d`shar.
Sarleon and Empire were rather equal , killing around 150 (+\- 20 on different tries) jatu before defeat. (sure, if you change balance of archers\infantry, or abuse terrain you can get better results - imho empire could do better with more crossbows - their infantry looks pale in comparison with crossbows
) , but i have decided to stay on that proportion for that particular run) But on the same terrain d`shar 100 ghazi spearmen, 50 ghazi marksman, and 50 gh.dervishes - were able to kill about 300 jatu before last soldier died. (which is logical, since even they archer have some mean of stopping cavalry)
may be D`shar army might look not so great in the hands of lords, when you closely observe them , but it is not about troops themselves.
I haven`t played on D`shar side (like siding with lords in battles etc) , but from the player`s perspective d`shar certainly are not weaklings.
Not that OP too call them "too strong", cos they have some flaws at the moment (will be better when extra thrust animation and thrust buffs are implemented) , but solid.
Only thing i am worried about - sieges. Have to try them there
Graf Zeppelin
Veteran
Heavy cavalry is the bane of the D´Shar now.Wolfang230 said:
